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JaylikeBird
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14th March 2013
Old 14th March 2013
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Professional Audio Mastering Service - $5

ho, ho, I'm not much of the communicative type but I though of y'all while cruising the craigslist. The description in the linked page is especially cringeworthy, but maybe I suppose par for the course these days. Anyway, here's the link if you need to make the derision personal: http, seattle, craigslist, org, see/msg/3679891944.html
A little, sad laugh for your night.

"Do you want your music to sound proffesional and ready for radio? mastering is when you bring the final mix of the recording to optimal levels with out destroying the sound. It also brings the subtle sounds in the mix out. I will do this for only five dollars a song. usally 80 dollar service..."

Engineering, craft? What was I thinking??
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14th March 2013
Old 14th March 2013
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14th March 2013
Old 14th March 2013
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if you think your music is worth only 5$ you should def use that "service"...and good luck to ya'll
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14th March 2013
Old 14th March 2013
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Shawn Hatfield
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14th March 2013
Old 14th March 2013
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Holy sh**.
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14th March 2013
Old 14th March 2013
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14th March 2013
Old 14th March 2013
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14th March 2013
Old 14th March 2013
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Around here people will do it for free... Easy to do "free" when you live with mommy and daddy and they pay for everything while you "pretend" to be an audio engineer and have a "job".

Try supporting a family on 5.00 a song.

This "industry" is so dead it's not even funny anymore.

How do you compete with free?

Even if the sound is crap people will use the service because "it's free" and they can tell everybody how they had their work done "for free" while all the other idiots paid for their service.

This is just a small reflection of what's happening around the world today.

Me I'm an old f*ck and don't have long to go in this industry but you young guns don't have a prayer from what I can see.

This use to be a great industry. Now it's just an industry of posers.

If were on a race to the bottom than the audio community is in the lead.

Good luck to you all.
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#9
14th March 2013
Old 14th March 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvertone View Post
Around here people will do it for free... Easy to do "free" when you live with mommy and daddy and they pay for everything while you "pretend" to be an audio engineer and have a "job".

Try supporting a family on 5.00 a song.

This "industry" is so dead it's not even funny anymore.

How do you compete with free?

Even if the sound is crap people will use the service because "it's free" and they can tell everybody how they had their work done "for free" while all the other idiots paid for their service.

This is just a small reflection of what's happening around the world today.

Me I'm an old f*ck and don't have long to go in this industry but you young guns don't have a prayer from what I can see.

This use to be a great industry. Now it's just an industry of posers.

If were on a race to the bottom than the audio community is in the lead.

Good luck to you all.
There were and will always be bottom feeders. They are just more exposed on the internet now.
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14th March 2013
Old 14th March 2013
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14th March 2013
Old 14th March 2013
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This "industry" is so dead it's not even funny anymore.

How do you compete with free?


It really isn't dead. It has changed, and you have to roll with it.
And... You don't compete with free. They are going away quick.

If you told me 10 years ago I would be doing ADR and voiceover for the App industry, and really enjoying it a lot more than dealing with young bands, I would not have thought it possible.
I get all of my work by not competing with the kiddies.
Real clients don't want kiddies in a basement and there really isn't any chance of the kiddies lucking in to a position because the company wants to save $90.

(Apologies to "kiddies", but eventually, you'll outgrow it.)

These people exist in every industry.
If you decide to compete with them, you get what you deserve.

I know a really talented mix engineer with insane credits who, for whatever reason started competing with the riff raff in his area.
It was odd, as all of his work came from Nashville, NY, etc.
He ended up charging less than 1/2 of his fair fee during a slow period.
This led to the inevitable loss of real clients, and sale of a lot of gear.
Happily, he's back and does not try to co-exist in amateur land.

If you really enjoy torturing yourself with craigslist ads, look at the people advertising for simple auto repair and skilled labor.
I am not going to hire someone to work on my electrical or plumbing that I found on craigslist.
"I'll do your timing belt for $75."
Sounds reasonable.... Huh?
No one takes craiglist ads seriously.
It's a free bottom feeder service for C***** sakes.

I heard of a guy who was trying to find a relationship on craigslist and was shocked to find that half of his dates were guys and the other half "low quality people".

The prime rib sucks at Denny's.
Is this a surprise?
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#12
14th March 2013
Old 14th March 2013
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Frankly, I don't care at all about these cheap services, and as one of the "young guns" Larry mentioned, I don't even feel threatened by them. No artist that is at all serious about their music or that understands the true value of mastering would ever use a studio that charges $5/song. These studios only attract clients that aren't even considering paying somebody who knows what they are doing, so who cares? Chances are they will use the service once, realize it doesn't sound good, and decide to save the $60 for the next Call of Duty release or some extra gas money. The fact remains, musicians that stick with it will eventually see the value in hiring a real mastering studio. As far as I'm concerned, these $5 studios aren't even in the same market, and no real clients are lost to them. As mentioned already, if you try to compete with these studios, you will eventually BECOME one of them.
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Virtalahde
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15th March 2013
Old 15th March 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bookerv12 View Post
If you decide to compete with them, you get what you deserve.
Quoted for truth.

The people who are after $5 services, I don't even want them as clients. People who care about their music and want to give to a pair of careful hands.. Those are my clients.

I literally wouldn't open the studio door for $5.
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John Moran
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15th March 2013
Old 15th March 2013
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alright then, the gloves are off...

I WILL PAY YOU TO MASTER YOUR ALBUM
NAME YOUR PRICE

there, that oughta do it, i iz a perfeshonal now!
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Sunbreak Music
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15th March 2013
Old 15th March 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bookerv12 View Post
The prime rib sucks at Denny's.
Is this a surprise?
But it looks so tasty on the commercials.
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15th March 2013
Old 15th March 2013
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Something else to consider is where this person might be. An enormous percentage of the world population lives on less than $5 a day; someone with access to a laptop and some cracked plugs could be making a better living than many at $5 a song.
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#17
15th March 2013
Old 15th March 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvertone View Post
Around here people will do it for free... Easy to do "free" when you live with mommy and daddy and they pay for everything while you "pretend" to be an audio engineer and have a "job".

Try supporting a family on 5.00 a song.

This "industry" is so dead it's not even funny anymore.

How do you compete with free?

Even if the sound is crap people will use the service because "it's free" and they can tell everybody how they had their work done "for free" while all the other idiots paid for their service.

This is just a small reflection of what's happening around the world today.

Me I'm an old f*ck and don't have long to go in this industry but you young guns don't have a prayer from what I can see.

This use to be a great industry. Now it's just an industry of posers.

If were on a race to the bottom than the audio community is in the lead.

Good luck to you all.
This is so true, very sad but very true. Its like NBA players get bought out by middle schools kids cause they are willing to an Xbox and a flat screen as a salary for 88 game season. What??? I mean they *can* play basketball. The "wanna be's" are flushing out the pro's and its so said, so ****ing sad.
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the bottom line is home or not - get serious about your art. Can't afford it? Stop being a pussy, get a job, and afford it. And make it good. Damn good. So damn good that when you talk about it with other people, they already enjoy it before they hear it. Because your love for it is contagious. And do it different. Have a point. The world doesn't need another beat guy or rapper - so what are you doing where the world needs you?
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15th March 2013
Old 15th March 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaynm26 View Post
This is so true, very sad but very true. Its like NBA players get bought out by middle schools kids cause they are willing to an Xbox and a flat screen as a salary for 88 game season. What??? I mean they *can* play basketball. The "wanna be's" are flushing out the pro's and its so said, so ****ing sad.
Your metaphor shows how ridiculous it is that any pro mastering engineer would feel threatened by the $5 studios at all. Just as NBA teams would NEVER use middle school players because they are cheaper, experienced serious musicians would never consider going to a $5 studio. Spin it any way you want, but the only customers at these places are clients that probably are not considering a real mastering engineer anyways. It is not like an artist has it narrowed down to Bob Ludwig and a $5 studio so they flip a coin.

There are threats to the mastering biz, but this is not one of them.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC
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15th March 2013
Old 15th March 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NotchontheRocks View Post
Your metaphor shows how ridiculous it is that any pro mastering engineer would feel threatened by the $5 studios at all. Just as NBA teams would NEVER use middle school players because they are cheaper, experienced serious musicians would never consider going to a $5 studio. Spin it any way you want, but the only customers at these places are clients that probably are not considering a real mastering engineer anyways. It is not like an artist has it narrowed down to Bob Ludwig and a $5 studio so they flip a coin.

There are threats to the mastering biz, but this is not one of them.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC
Maybe like you said spin it anyway you want but think bout it to get a song matsered this days by a professional is about $40-$80 per song when has it ever been this low? I remember prices in the 90's. You cant tell me the mastering eng havent taken a hit? And it because of all the "wanna be's".
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15th March 2013
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I'm with Notch. I see no reason to get upset by any of this.

Look after your own shop well enough and there's nothing to worry about, no matter what pricing bracket or type of clientelle you have.
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15th March 2013
Old 15th March 2013
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You guys are all missing Larry's point. If you read between the lines coming from a veteran in the industry, he's saying that the industry has become overly saturated with low cost, low talent, and free services. No mater what excuse you come up with, it drives everyone's prices down.

And i don't think he's harping on the $5 a song guy, it's more of what it represents. And those of you who say, it's always been like this...well i beg to differ. Not that long ago a budget recording studio in NYC would cost you around $55 - $75 an hour with a house engineer, another term for overworked assistant engineer. I was tracking at a studio not 2 days ago with killer mic pres, pro tools hd accel rig, and $25k controller. The hourly rate was $25 an hour, and would have been the same rate if there was an engineer. That's for a recording studio.

NEVER could i ever think to walk in the door of a Mastering studio for under $75 an hour if the budget couldn't afford Sterling's $450 an hour rate or in between. Has anyone looked at the top of the heap Mastering Studios lately, they're all offering unattended mastering for half or less than their normal hourly rate's were.

Larry is saying there has been a cheapening of the industry, and if you go by the average per hour rate from what it was 20 years ago to today, he's right, and there's no arguing the point.
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15th March 2013
Old 15th March 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by engmix View Post
You guys are all missing Larry's point. If you read between the lines coming from a veteran in the industry, he's saying that the industry has become overly saturated with low cost, low talent, and free services. No mater what excuse you come up with, it drives everyone's prices down.

And i don't think he's harping on the $5 a song guy, it's more of what it represents. And those of you who say, it's always been like this...well i beg to differ. Not that long ago a budget recording studio in NYC would cost you around $55 - $75 an hour with a house engineer, another term for overworked assistant engineer. I was tracking at a studio not 2 days ago with killer mic pres, pro tools hd accel rig, and $25k controller. The hourly rate was $25 an hour, and would have been the same rate if there was an engineer. That's for a recording studio.

NEVER could i ever think to walk in the door of a Mastering studio for under $75 an hour if the budget couldn't afford Sterling's $450 an hour rate or in between. Has anyone looked at the top of the heap Mastering Studios lately, they're all offering unattended mastering for half or less than their normal hourly rate's were.

Larry is saying there has been a cheapening of the industry, and if you go by the average per hour rate from what it was 20 years ago to today, he's right, and there's no arguing the point.
I didn't miss his point. I just think the true threat to mastering right now is recording studios that are offering "mixing and mastering" at a single affordable rate. Mastering to most of them is throwing a limiter on it and some compression. The worst part is that these studios aren't putting out terrible tracks, they just aren't having it professionally mastered to sound its best. These free or $5 mastering studios are irrelevant. I'm more afraid of the real recording studios offering gimmick mastering.

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16th March 2013
Old 16th March 2013
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there's also the minor factor that rates across the board in professional facilities are in the dump and have been for some time. there are many reasons for that.

studio time is the same or cheaper now than it was in the 1980s; meanwhile, every operating cost has gone up. this is not a healthy business model and precisely why so many folks and facilities bailed out. At the end of the day, it's a bidness or it's a hobby.

for $5, I'd prefer a foot long Subway sandwich... mastering at that level doesn't really figure into the equation for a bidness or a perfeshonal.
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16th March 2013
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I agree with NotchontheRocks

The problems today is not from the $5 on line mastering studios it is really from everyone being so hungry. We use to send a lot of recording work to a studio near here. The studio owner has a beautiful acoustic room and does very nice work but has fallen on hard times recently. I started to wonder why none of the clients we were sending him ever came back here for mastering. It turns out he was doing "mastering" as part of his package and never told me. The last clients I sent him called me and said they were upset because during the tracking the studio owner and a "buddy" were sitting in the control room drinking beer and talking loudly about the session. I don't send him any more business.

When I was in Nashville doing my mastering interning it worked very much differently than what I currently see around this area. Down in Nashville there were places that did tracking, there were places that did mixing and there were places that did mastering and they did not step on each others toes. There were a few places that were "demo studios" where they did everything but they still sent out any mastering they had to the mastering houses in town. I don't know what Nashville is like today. I assume it is still the same but may have changed due to today's economics.

I think today there are many recording studios that are NOT doing well and so they want to keep the clients they have in the studio for as long as they have money left to spend. They offer mastering, publicity, graphic design and CD duplication to entice the client to stay were they are.

I have heard some attempts by some local recording engineers to do mastering and I must say they are doing their clients a REAL disservice. Too bad that the music industry continues to shrink and everyone is so hungry that they will do most anything to make a buck including ripping off their clients for a few bucks by doing slam and dash "mastering" when they are not equipped or trained to do it.

FWIW and YMMV
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Red Mastering
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16th March 2013
Old 16th March 2013
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doom&gloom again...
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16th March 2013
Old 16th March 2013
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I face with this problem every single day. Paying clients for mixing usually asks me to do mastering as well. And all the time I offer them one of our GS respectable members mastering services. But 95% of clients refuse to pay such a steep price according to them so they end up paying for someone else somewhat 20 euros for mastering which end result I dont like at all. As I work for really low rate (50 pounds for mix) but put a lot of effort and time on mixing it pisses me off that somewhat wannabe mastering engineer kills all my created dynamics in the mix as well as overall balance.. So lately what I been doing is to refuse work for low paying clients. Instead, if someone approaches me for work I start to ask for 600 pounds per song/project (depends) which includes recording costs (one session), mixing and mastering. But what I do I split that 600 quid for dedicated engineers. 100 for recording engineer, 50 for assistant, 200 mixing, 70 quid for mastering engineer. Rest of money is for studio costs etc.. or my team. So for every process I get decent engineer to do that for fair rate. The outcome is that I rarely get clients wanting to pay 600 quid but it doesn't make me work almost for free and my spare time can be used for doing other gigs or crafting my skills on stuff I like to do. Plus people stop wasting your time asking to do something for free to them. Slowly but steadily I get better paid gigs than those working for 5iver ...
#27
16th March 2013
Old 16th March 2013
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Thank you engmix, you saved me a lot of typing.

I think you guys get my point for the most part but I'm not just talking about the mastering industry. Or just the music industry for that matter.

I have no solution to the problem. I can only say I've been in business for 38 years (on both the east and west coast) and for the last 10 have been fighting a loosing battle.

All I do know is that I cannot sustain a living in this industry anymore... and it saddens me to no end.

I wish all of you the best of luck.
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16th March 2013
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Quote:
"I will do this for only five dollars a song."
I would say, at least they know what their services are worth.

But that might sound mean-spirited, which isn't my style.

Generally you get what you pay for.

The old axiom "good-cheap-fast- pick any two" works.

JT
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16th March 2013
Old 16th March 2013
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Quote:
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Thank you engmix, you saved me a lot of typing.

All I do know is that I cannot sustain a living in this industry anymore... and it saddens me to no end.
That is not good to hear Larry.
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16th March 2013
Old 16th March 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Mastering View Post
doom&gloom again...
If you are doing well in this current marketplace then GREAT. In some parts of the world things are not like they are here. I know a couple of people in Europe that are doing better than ever. In the US there are just too many "mastering engineers" and not enough people who need their services. The market is already over saturated and with every recording studio and basement operation is offering "mastering" it is simply ridiculous for anyone to expect to make the same money they were making 10 years ago. That is unless you are in an area like Austin Texas where there is a very strong loyal music scene and you have some GREAT mastering engineers like Jerry Tubb.

It is certainly not all doom and gloom but not what it was.

Best of luck and if you are making a good living off music today you should count yourself lucky!
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