Preparing Mixes/Finding a Mst Engineer

[Junksiege]

Hello, We recently finished the last tracks of an album and are in the process of mixing the tunes for mastering. Any advice on what to do/not do to the mixes? We tracked in Cubase. We have the ability to mix down to 1/4 tape on an Akai 1710 if needed.

Is it ok to leave a bit of compression on the master bus? I usually mix with just a minute amount of comp on the hole mix. What about EQ? Better to leave things bright or darker? How hot should the exported mixes be? Will master be better if we use the 1/4 tape?

Also, we're gonna need an engineer to do the work too! We're definitely an Indie Rock outfit, and like our sound to have that gritty character of yesteryear. Not really into the more modern stuff. So, if you're interested in some work, let me know.

I know there are some seriously talented engineers on this board, so any advice is greatly appreciated.

If you'd like to dig...
www.professionalmenofleisure.com

[xparkerx]

i'd love to hear insight on this as well!!

[bob katz]

Originally Posted by Junksiege

Hello, We recently finished the last tracks of an album and are in the process of mixing the tunes for mastering. Any advice on what to do/not do to the mixes? We tracked in Cubase. We have the ability to mix down to 1/4 tape on an Akai 1710 if needed.

Is it ok to leave a bit of compression on the master bus? I usually mix with just a minute amount of comp on the hole mix. What about EQ? Better to leave things bright or darker? How hot should the exported mixes be? Will master be better if we use the 1/4 tape?

Also, we're gonna need an engineer to do the work too! We're definitely an Indie Rock outfit, and like our sound to have that gritty character of yesteryear. Not really into the more modern stuff. So, if you're interested in some work, let me know.

I know there are some seriously talented engineers on this board, so any advice is greatly appreciated.

Why not contact some of the mastering engineers you've seen here or PM them...

Going to 1/4" can be great or can take things downhill. If you already have what you consider a very good mix, before you decide if you want to further process it (including bus compression) why not send your mix as it currently stands on one song to a mastering engineer for evaluation/listening/recommendations.

I don't know the Akai 1710. I've never heard of a good-sounding Akai 1/4" machine so I'd be skeptical you could get something nice from there, and don't forget that the mastering engineer can dub to 1/4" or 1/2" just as easily as you if that's needed! Before you do anything "rash" like adding bus compression when you're not sure if it will help, why not send a mix to a mastering engineer for a free eval. I'll listen to and evaluate one of your mixes at no charge if you are considering mastering with us. And I know other mastering engineers will do the same---evaluate a mix for a potential client who's serious about considering mastering with them. My feeling is the better you can make your mixes sound, the better the master that we can make from it---and that's good for everyone!

As for "brighter versus darker", it's best to be as right on as possible, to get the tonality you would like and not count on it being altered as much as possible. As for levels, I suggest a mix to 24 bit that does not exceed - 3 dBFS peak unless you have a VERY accurate digital meter. And even then, -3 will NEVER HURT and may help! I encountered a pro tools LE mix yesterday that was clipping all over the place. Well, what do you expect with a tiny meter that the difference between going into the RED and -3 dBFS is a millimeter. As for bus comp, if you are in doubt or looking for advice, I suggest you talk to a potential mastering engineer and you both work it out for what seems to be best for THIS RECORDING, this MIX, and your current mixing skills. There is no right or wrong, but overdoing (or mis-setting) a bus comp is worse than not doing it at all, in my opinion.

[Junksiege]

Many thanks, that sounds like great advice. Looks like the best course of action is to get a mix or two evaluated by a pro and then conform the mixes to what the ME prefers. We really just want the end result to be as good as possible, so we'll mix it standing on our heads if it'll help the ME.

So engineers, who's interested. Let me know if you are, and also the best way to transfer a mix. We can do ftp, or even post to the web, etc. I'll also do some research around this board and contact a few.

CJ

[aivoryuk]

Originally Posted by Junksiege

So engineers, who's interested. Let me know if you are, and also the best way to transfer a mix. We can do ftp, or even post to the web, etc. I'll also do some research around this board and contact a few.

CJ

hello i sent you a pm regarding the above and also the same things the bob k was saying but ahve had no reply :(

[Junksiege]

Thanks, I've gotten back to everyone that PM'd me. Will have a mix for tasting shortly.

[cerberus]

Originally Posted by bob katz

As for levels, I suggest a mix to 24 bit that does not exceed - 3 dBFS peak unless you have a VERY accurate digital meter. And even then, -3 will NEVER HURT and may help!

hi bk, cj mentioned he is tracking and perhaps mixing with cubase, so in that case i think that particular part of your advice would not be correct unless he is going to tape. then i think a dither might be indicated for the bit reduction, but i think no bit reduction would be preferable.

Originally Posted by aivoryuk

the same things the bob k was saying

hi alex!

jeff dinces

[NesNeedsGear]

1. unless you have a BETTER compressor than a reputable ME, don't bother putting any compression on the master bus.

instead, focus on getting better perceived loudness on individual tracks (compression, a little distortion, eq).

2. EQ everything into its own spot in the frequency range. The most crucial of frequencies fall below 250hz...this is where most of the energy is in rock music and it will dictate how compressors act on the master bus.

3. the most dynamic instruments in rock are the drums and vocals. Spend some serious time getting them right.


if possible, I'd like to take a hack at mastering your mix. You prob won't choose mine anyway, but I'd love your opinion on it. good luck.

[Junksiege]

I've pm'd everyone a link to the first mix...

Many, many thanks everyone.

[godcity]

Originally Posted by cerberus

hi bk, cj mentioned he is tracking and perhaps mixing with cubase, so in that case i think that particular part of your advice would not be correct unless he is going to tape. then i think a dither might be indicated for the bit reduction, but i think no bit reduction would be preferable. hi alex!

jeff dinces

-3db will ensure no overs at the mix stage, but more importantly, will give any digital EQ plus any analog gear a bit more headroom. i'll take head room over bit depth any day.

[Brad Blackwood]

Originally Posted by NesNeedsGear

1. unless you have a BETTER compressor than a reputable ME, don't bother putting any compression on the master bus.

Sorry, but that's just terrible advice unless you're cutting audiophile records - compression is the sound of rock/pop/RnB/HipHop/etc. and the sound of the mix should come from - the mix!

It's not the car, it's the driver. In this case, if the 'perfect' amount of compression causes the kick to trigger the comp too much, the mixer can adjust the mix to make it right. The mastering engineer's hands are tied...

Be mindful of what you strap across the buss, but don't be shy - do what sounds good and serves the song and be sure the compressed mix is actually better and the mastering engineer will be thrilled.

Sweeping generalizations like the quote above give me the willies - this is art!

[Junksiege]

If any other's are interested, here is a link to the 24 bit wav mix. Ctritique always accepted graciously.


http://professionalmenofleisure.com/...urHead1003.wav

[jayfrigo]

Originally Posted by NesNeedsGear

1. unless you have a BETTER compressor than a reputable ME, don't bother putting any compression on the master bus.

It's not the compression that's so much the "no-no" as it is hard limiting, or anything purely for level. Clipping distortion will tie the hands of the mastering engineer. Compression, if done tastefully, can be an important part of the creative vibe of a mix. Don't add it just 'cause you think you're supposed to, but don't avoid it altogether if you have reason to use it. Just don't do anything to try to achieve "mastered" levels before mastering.

[Jay Kahrs]

Originally Posted by Junksiege

Many thanks, that sounds like great advice. Looks like the best course of action is to get a mix or two evaluated by a pro and then conform the mixes to what the ME prefers. We really just want the end result to be as good as possible, so we'll mix it standing on our heads if it'll help the ME.

Why would you conform the mix to what the ME wants to hear rather then to what YOU want to hear?

It's YOUR record. It should sound the way you want it to, not the way some "random" ME wants it to!

IMO...the level of the mix you posted is fine. Plently of room to work with there, but IMO the mix itself is lacking. There's a weird resonance coming off the bass & the drums are pretty well buried. The vocal also hits me as being uncomfortable and 'out of the pocket' with regards to where things are sitting in the rest of the mix. Nothing really "leaps" out of the mix...it all just kinda sits there in a pedestrian sort of way.

What do you think of the mixes? Are they approximating what you have in your head?

[Junksiege]

Originally Posted by Jay Kahrs

Why would you conform the mix to what the ME wants to hear rather then to what YOU want to hear?

It's YOUR record. It should sound the way you want it to, not the way some "random" ME wants it to!

What do you think of the mixes? Are they approximating what you have in your head?

Very true. I was referring to the level and format of the file, moreso than the mix itself.
Thanks for the feedback on the mix, it's always appreciated. I do think it approximates what we have in our heads, but it's interesting to hear what other people think.

[lucey]

as jay said the low end is messy, and the drums are buried. With the vocals and guitars bright on top you're leaning toward a modern scoop with a lot in the soup.

[Jay Kahrs]

Originally Posted by lucey

as jay said the low end is messy, and the drums are buried. With the vocals and guitars bright on top you're leaning toward a modern scoop with a lot in the soup.

Yeah, no doubt...that really does lean towards the "modern" side of things.

If as a mixer...someone asked me to mix their songs so they have "that gritty character of yesteryear" the mixes wouldn't sound anything like the mix you have now which, IMHO...could be showing the song in a better light.

Regardless, all the questions you asked in your first post; how bright or dark should it be, mix to tape, with or without compression....

All of that should be decided while the record is in 'mix'...NOT at mastering. By that time it's generally too late to "define" the sonics of a record.

Peace,

[cerberus]

Originally Posted by godcity

-3db will ensure no overs at the mix stage, but more importantly, will give any digital EQ plus any analog gear a bit more headroom. i'll take head room over bit depth any day.

he is mixing in cubase. so, you are a mastering engineer, so you can reduce the gain and dither it yourself if you want to make it 24 bits.

the fact is: it is NOT a 24 bit signal coming off this mix bus. if you treat it exactly the the same as if it were a 24 bit signal, then you risk damaging the signal. then if you peak limit the signal, the digital artifacts which you created due to ignorance or neglect will get louder too.

====

now to the nitty gritty.

you have a great band cj.
you should hire a professional mix engineer to mix this.
then a professional to master it.
my bid to master a group of mixes like this one you have prsented into a "record" will seem too high.
it could cost a few hundred dollars just to hear your own kick drum again.

jeff dinces

[lucey]

If you're definitely mixing it yourself, you should post this mix in the mp3 forum and get feedback there from other mixers

[contempo]

Originally Posted by lucey

If you're definitely mixing it yourself, you should post this mix in the mp3 forum and get feedback there from other mixers

or if you really care about what it's going to sound like and how far the music might go once it leaves your hands, you could find a real mix engineer and let them take it beyond anything that you can do on your own. I agree with the others, that mix doesn't have any 'yesteryear character' its very pedestrian and 'modern'

so what do you really want?