Anyone who use Dynaudio Air 20 for mastering?

[masterpool]

Anyone who use Dynaudio Air 20 for mastering? Is this a good choice? I was recommended the new air speakers, but I havent seen any mastering studio use this kind of speakers.

[bob katz]

Originally Posted by masterpool

Anyone who use Dynaudio Air 20 for mastering? Is this a good choice? I was recommended the new air speakers, but I havent seen any mastering studio use this kind of speakers.

The Air 20 is not my fave. This speaker is voiced very bright and harsh, and suffers from the typical headroom issues of many self-powered speakers. However, the AIR 25 is a different animal and I could see this used for mastering. The AIR 25 has the headroom, and is voiced nicely and is pretty darn flat.

The thing is every Dynaudio brand loudspeaker is a dice shoot, because they all sound different. In fact, that is the designer's goal, to make a potpourri to satisfy everyone's taste!

There is no such thing as a Dynaudio "family" sound. There are "audiophile" Dynaudios, like the Emminence, which has a good reputation, and in the same line, so many others that sound like crap in my opinion. So, listen, and be prepared to pick and choose and you may find a Dynaudio you'll like! Or hate...

BK

[masterpool]

Originally Posted by bob katz

However, the AIR 25 is a different animal and I could see this used for mastering. The AIR 25 has the headroom, and is voiced nicely and is pretty darn flat. BK

I have conciderd AIR 25, but I'm afraid they are to BIG for my room. Is there a problem to have big monitors in small rooms (16m2)? Other suggestions on active monitors for mastering?

[bob katz]

Originally Posted by masterpool

I have conciderd AIR 25, but I'm afraid they are to BIG for my room. Is there a problem to have big monitors in small rooms (16m2)? Other suggestions on active monitors for mastering?

You bet the Air 25 is big! And there are many people who feel you should not drive a room with more than it can take at the low end. And for a small room, you can consider separate subs so you can control the low end and locate them ideally.

Active for masteirng? What budget? In the active, "no compromise" mastering-capable, ATC comes to my mind, as does PMC; I also like the Meyer HD-1's. Below that, budget and size tend to affect the choice in active loudspeakers for mastering purposes.

BK

[WilliamFF]

I am thinking of adding a pair of Meyer HD-1 to my monitor set up.
The pair I am looking at is 12 years old, but havent been used in a while.

Anybody know if a 12 year old HD-1 is the same as a HD-1 of 2006 ?? I couldn't find any info on the Meyer site in regards to modifications\add ons along the way..

I dunno, I am one of these people who thinks things get better and better as time goes by, and I am curious about how a good monitor 12 years of age compares to a new model of a different brand..I guess theres a difference between monitors and digital converters, but still ??

A 12 year HD-1 vs the new Genelec 8040\50 or BM 15 a for instance. Any thoughts ?

Any reason HD-1 is considered a mastering monitor instead of a mixing monitor ?

tia

[Ernest Buckley]

From what I have heard in conversation with other MEs, the only monitors from DynAudio worth having are the BM6As. I have heard them and they are fantastic for the size. Nice tight sound, full bottom.

[carlsaff]

Originally Posted by Ernest Buckley

From what I have heard in conversation with other MEs, the only monitors from DynAudio worth having are the BM6As. I have heard them and they are fantastic for the size. Nice tight sound, full bottom.

I believe this board's own Chris Athens of Sterling Sound uses Dynaudio C4s. He might disagree.

I use Dynaudio Contour 1.3SEs, which are from the company's "hi-fi" line, and although you need a sub (or subs) with them (as you would with the BM6As), they are pretty much everything you need for mastering: flat response, clinical accuracy, pinpoint imaging, a nearly invisible crossover... all the good stuff. Very revealing monitors for the money (they were ~$4000 when they came out, but can be had now for much less).

Although I agree with Bob that Dynaudio is hit or miss, there are definitely real gems in both their pro and hifi product lines.

[Trailerman]

Originally Posted by bob katz

The Air 20 is not my fave. This speaker is voiced very bright and harsh, and suffers from the typical headroom issues of many self-powered speakers.

Hi Bob

Any chance you could you expand on the headroom issues you believe the Air 20 suffers from?

I have a pair, and the Air Base 2 sub, and find them a superb combination for mixing (I don't master professionally). I also don't find them "bright and harsh" personally - in fact I find the mid's upwards exceptionally even, but then I was mixing on BM15's prior to this - from which the Air 20's are a huge step up.

I did have a lot of help from Andy Monroe and his colleagues installing and setting them up in my room, so perhaps that helped.

Thanks for your feedback.

Jules Bromley

[bob katz]

Originally Posted by Trailerman

Hi Bob

Any chance you could you expand on the headroom issues you believe the Air 20 suffers from?

I have a pair, and the Air Base 2 sub, and find them a superb combination for mixing (I don't master professionally). I also don't find them "bright and harsh" personally - in fact I find the mid's upwards exceptionally even, but then I was mixing on BM15's prior to this - from which the Air 20's are a huge step up.

I did have a lot of help from Andy Monroe and his colleagues installing and setting them up in my room, so perhaps that helped.

Thanks for your feedback.

Jules Bromley

Dear Jules: I have listened to the Air 20's at AES shows, playing material that I know and brought to the show. But this is a far cry from listening critically in a good, calibrated room. And the room is an important ingredient in the sound. If I had the opportunity to hear the Air 20's in this mastering room I might change my mind... or I might not :-).

Headroom? Well, my standard of reference is a pair of Lipinskis with a pair of subwoofers. The Lipinskis are powered by a "nominal" 250 watt/channel Pass X250 and the subs are separately powered, each by a 100 watt servo amp. The cleanliness of the transient response and the sense that there is no "compression" in the monitoring is what I mean by "headroom". I sensed that the Air 20's clamped down when playing at loud peaks, as is the case with many self-powered units.

It's all relative. Until you've heard a system with extremely low distortion and high headroom playing wide range "audiophile" material that has not been compressed, you may feel that the Air 20's are very good in this regard as they may be. I feel that even the high-powered Meyer HD-1 clamps a bit on loud peaks. There are usually protective limiter circuits in self-powered speakers and I believe these engage far more often than you would think.

Richard C. Heyser devised a burst-test method for measuring dynamic headroom, but I never learned how to do it and I don't believe any loudspeaker manufacturer specifies it because it would make their speakers look bad! That would be an objective measure. All I can do is speak "subjectively."

[Trailerman]

Bob

Many thanks for your response.

I'm interested to hear that headroom issues are common with active monitors. I'd always made the assumption that once one moves beyond the exceptionally price sensitive end of the market, manufacturers would not want to compromise the monitor with a poorly matched or underpowered amplifier. I believe each Air 20 has two separate 200W PWM amps - one powering the woofer, and the other for the midrange and tweeter. I would have thought those power ratings were adequate for a monitor of this size, but I appreciate there are great amps and ... less great amps.

Fortunately my room is relatively small, my input levels often pretty hot, and my listening levels moderate, so as yet I haven't really noticed too many headroom issues, but there may well be peaks where the amps are compressing, which I simply don't notice.

I didn't mean to question your judgement incidentally Bob, just wanted to chime in with a positive personal take on them - albeit from a mix rather than mastering perspective. I've always found the highs to be extremely natural on the better Dynaudios, where for example the Genelecs always sound gritty to my ear. The Air Base 2 is superb for sorting out bass issues, and if you're mixing Dance or Hiphop - I hear things with the Air 20's I simply never had access to with nearfields - and I like the ease with which you can program LP points and crossovers between the sub and mains. Then again, I don't have either your ears or your experience.

Thanks again for your input. This forum is infinitely richer for your presence.

Jules

[bob katz]

Originally Posted by Trailerman

Bob

Many thanks for your response.


Thanks again for your input. This forum is infinitely richer for your presence.

Jules

And the forum is richer for your presence, Jules! Your input on the Air 20 has made me reconsider it when I have the opportunity to hear it under better circumstances! It used to be you would judge amps by their weight and size, but no longer so with PWM, but I'll bet you dollars to donuts there's an internal protection limiter in the Air 20.

[luedemann]

i use the air 15's they have the same power as the air 20's but only have a woofer and tweeter in the design, so no mid driver. I really like them because they show the harshness in material that other speakers tend to hide, they will be harsh sounding if the source sound is harsh, and yes they do have a peak poweramp limiter that kicks in if you have a peak, but you have to be playing the shit*excuse my french* out of these speakers for it to clip out, and when it does, as punishment the poweramp goes into silence mode for 2 seconds and comes back after it, theres even a red light in the front of the master monitor that will warn you...for the price i paid, i'm very happy! They fill up my room nicely and some of my favarite recordings sound amaizing thru it, and i've heard theings i've never heard before with them. Also Abbey Road mastering uses these, and the senior re-mastering engineer at Abbey Road Peter Mew says this aboy the air 15 "installation was easy and the on board DSP functions allowed us to accurately align the system for the room. The first time I tried them they just sounded right - natural, detailed with excellent imaging" and I would agree. also i've heard HD-1's and i personaly like the 15's better and so have alot of people i work with and they all agree on the Air 15's. Even the Meyer X-10 (23k dollar each speaker...46k for a pair) my collegues and I have picked the Air 15, even though the X-10's have a extended low end down to 5hz...its all opinions and subjective listening anyways, what one person will love, another will hate, and thats why you have to hear monitors for yourself and pick out what you like and would work better for you.

[Alécio Costa]

Considering the " red lights flashing".. Were these monitors submited to a correct "burn-in period"?

When I got my BM6As out of the box and turned them on, the red lights would flash easily with any material with a fat low end at moderate monitoring levels.

I did what is recommended, regarding period of continuous use at moderate levels ( or inject pink noise) and now the BM6As hardly have red lights flashing.