Login / Register
 
editing a mastered song then bounce it....
New Reply
Subscribe
sam shew
Thread Starter
#1
31st January 2013
Old 31st January 2013
  #1
Gear nut
 
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 81

Thread Starter
sam shew is offline
editing a mastered song then bounce it....

hi all

very often, i make edits to songs already masterised.
what i call editing is only adding few sounds and vocals to the song - a kind of very light remix...

question: do i need to put a compression on the master before bouncing it all that ? Or should i avoid any compression to that already masterised song ?

(just ask me if im not clear enough..)
Waltz Mastering
Verified Member
#2
31st January 2013
Old 31st January 2013
  #2
Lives for gear
 
Waltz Mastering's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2008
Location: 3rd Stone From The Sun
Posts: 3,268

Verified Member
Waltz Mastering is offline
If the songs have already been mastered, there's really no need to do any additional processing unless you're going use cross fades on the edit points or do any further fades.
.. Then it's probably best to re-dither 16 bit.
__________________

www.waltzmastering.com

sam shew
Thread Starter
#3
31st January 2013
Old 31st January 2013
  #3
Gear nut
 
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 81

Thread Starter
sam shew is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waltz Mastering View Post
If the songs have already been mastered, there's really no need to do any additional processing unless you're going use cross fades on the edit points or do any further fades.
.. Then it's probably best to re-dither 16 bit.
not sure i understand what you say, please forgive me.

i just add some few sounds but i rarely create cross fades... or only if i hear an ugly audio click...

but very often, i put a compressor on the master because im scared not to hear the few vocals i add for instance... what do you think about that ?

and sorry again but can you tell me more about the nature of re-dithering ?
Deleted User #43636
#4
31st January 2013
Old 31st January 2013
  #4
Deleted User #43636
Guest
 
Posts: n/a

You should go back to the mix to add sounds and master only when it's finished. As you said yourself, what you're doing is a remix. Mastering is producing a finalized record, not processing stuff to make them sound "better". Everyone here sells audio processing, but this isnt mastering, it's post-mix. Mastering is adjusting things with the specs of the release media in mind.
sam shew
Thread Starter
#5
1st February 2013
Old 1st February 2013
  #5
Gear nut
 
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 81

Thread Starter
sam shew is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanddigger1 View Post
You should go back to the mix to add sounds and master only when it's finished. As you said yourself, what you're doing is a remix. Mastering is producing a finalized record, not processing stuff to make them sound "better". Everyone here sells audio processing, but this isnt mastering, it's post-mix. Mastering is adjusting things with the specs of the release media in mind.
Okay so i repeat my question -

i HAVE TO DO VERY OFTEN SOME EDITS TO SONGS ALREADY MASTERISED.

... so whats the best solution ? what you guys would you go in that case ?

adding a little compression to be sure everything will stand or avoiding any compression ? ... please tell me...
#6
1st February 2013
Old 1st February 2013
  #6
Gear addict
 
Joined: Mar 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 319

haberdasher is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by sam shew View Post
so whats the best solution ?
The best solution remains the same: do the edits on the unmastered mix, and then send it to be mastered.

If you want to go against that, do whatever gets the best sounding result to you. Although I'd question why you'd want to add a compressor to a whole mix if it already sounds right.
#7
1st February 2013
Old 1st February 2013
  #7
Gear maniac
 
Joined: Apr 2012
Location: Ireland
Posts: 154

BingoBongo is offline
Ye gotta mixerize before you can masterize
Quote
3
#8
1st February 2013
Old 1st February 2013
  #8
Moderator
 
psycho_monkey's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2006
Location: Sydney via London
Posts: 22,496
My Recordings/Credits

Send a message via Skype™ to psycho_monkey
psycho_monkey is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by BingoBongo View Post
Ye gotta mixerize before you can masterize
All your masterizing are belong to us...

To the op - do what you need to do to make it sound good. You're already fudging it by overdubbing on a mastered track, so it really doesn't make much difference what you do.
__________________
Recent Indie credits include:

Jack Robert Hardman (New EP now on sale), Morgan Joanel, and High-Tails.

If I've helped you out, please consider supporting these artists as a favour to me!

Major label credits include Pharrell/Alicia Keys, Ricky Martin (Aus #3), John Legend, Samantha Jade, Di-Rect (Dutch #1), etc
sam shew
Thread Starter
#9
1st February 2013
Old 1st February 2013
  #9
Gear nut
 
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 81

Thread Starter
sam shew is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by haberdasher View Post
The best solution remains the same: do the edits on the unmastered mix, and then send it to be mastered.

If you want to go against that, do whatever gets the best sounding result to you. Although I'd question why you'd want to add a compressor to a whole mix if it already sounds right.
man, if i had the choice ofc i would work on unmastered material BUT I HAVE NO CHOICE BUT WORK ON ALREADY MASTERED MATERIAL AM I CLEAR ??????????????????????????????

Now, why i want to add a compressor to a whole mix already mastered ? coz sometimes it sounds great on my protools but when you hear it on poor system like iphone or whatever some soundd are missing ... any solution ?
#10
1st February 2013
Old 1st February 2013
  #10
Gear addict
 
Joined: Mar 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 319

haberdasher is offline
I just don't understand how you can be losing the unmastered files "very often"!

If for some reason it sounds better with an extra compressor on on the systems you anticipate it being played back on, then put an extra compressor on. If not, don't. Try using half as much compression for a compromise.

There is no solution, there are lots of options to try. One of which would be to go back to your mastering engineer, explain the situation and see how good a result he/she can get from processing the mastered tracks a second time.
Waltz Mastering
Verified Member
#11
1st February 2013
Old 1st February 2013
  #11
Lives for gear
 
Waltz Mastering's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2008
Location: 3rd Stone From The Sun
Posts: 3,268

Verified Member
Waltz Mastering is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by sam shew View Post
why i want to add a compressor to a whole mix already mastered ? coz sometimes it sounds great on my protools but when you hear it on poor system like iphone or whatever some soundd are missing ... any solution ?
It sounds like you are recording additional parts over already masterized 2 tracks.

You can compress the individual new tracks, compress the whole new remix or not compress anything and do level rides on your new tracks (might need eq as well). Which ever sounds and works out best so you're not losing detail on smaller speakers. Probably best to catch it in the remix rather than the remasterizing. gl
#12
1st February 2013
Old 1st February 2013
  #12
Lives for gear
 
loujudson's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,754

loujudson is offline
STOP helping this guy use the wrong word. "Masterize" is something you do in the kitchen, not the studio.

He is wrong, simply put.
L
#13
1st February 2013
Old 1st February 2013
  #13
Lives for gear
 
Joined: Sep 2007
Location: NYC
Posts: 3,264

smoke is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by loujudson View Post
STOP helping this guy use the wrong word. "Masterize" is something you do in the kitchen, not the studio.

He is wrong, simply put.
L
What is this masterize in the kitchen? I've heard of masserate and moisturize but masterize? I'm sure the word sounds like other things I'm better off not discussing at the moment.
Waltz Mastering
Verified Member
#14
1st February 2013
Old 1st February 2013
  #14
Lives for gear
 
Waltz Mastering's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2008
Location: 3rd Stone From The Sun
Posts: 3,268

Verified Member
Waltz Mastering is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by loujudson View Post
STOP helping this guy use the wrong word. "Masterize" is something you do in the kitchen, not the studio.

He is wrong, simply put.
L
Ok.. I thought it was more European or something..
http://www.urbandictionary.com/defin...term=Masterize
The art of familiarizing the processes of mastering while mastering the familiar topic
Deleted User #43636
#15
1st February 2013
Old 1st February 2013
  #15
Deleted User #43636
Guest
 
Posts: n/a

Quote:
Originally Posted by smoke View Post
What is this masterize in the kitchen? I've heard of masserate and moisturize but masterize?
You're close. Masterizing is a special cooking technique in which moisturization is obtained through maceration.
#16
1st February 2013
Old 1st February 2013
  #16
CEO - Z-Shift LLC
 
jrhager84's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2008
Location: Boise, ID
Posts: 2,584

jrhager84 is offline
That's it. I no longer master; I masterize...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777
__________________
I know enough to know that I know nothing...
#17
1st February 2013
Old 1st February 2013
  #17
Lives for gear
 
RRCHON's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2011
Location: PA
Posts: 525

RRCHON is online now
Some points to consider.

He might be working with other people's material, that material might be so old that the original mixes no longer exist, or he might not have access to the original mixes since they are not his own.

Could be putting vocals on some old ethnic recordings, or adding whatever.

The solution was already given by multiple posters, it is a post-mix and not having full mastery of the English language has never been a crime on here before. Though the temptation to troll is strong.....

I digress.

To the OP, you post-mixes could be sounding wonky for a myriad of different reasons, you need to find that balance of tone and volume that translates to multiple playback systems. Books have been written on the topic so the scope of that is a bit beyond of weather you should use a compressor or not on your main bus when exporting.

iPhone speakers are not exactly the end all of audio fidelity and I think they might be mono, if they are check for correlation and phase problems.
sam shew
Thread Starter
#18
2nd February 2013
Old 2nd February 2013
  #18
Gear nut
 
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 81

Thread Starter
sam shew is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by RRCHON View Post
Some points to consider.

He might be working with other people's material, that material might be so old that the original mixes no longer exist, or he might not have access to the original mixes since they are not his own.

Could be putting vocals on some old ethnic recordings, or adding whatever.

The solution was already given by multiple posters, it is a post-mix and not having full mastery of the English language has never been a crime on here before. Though the temptation to troll is strong.....
THIS !!!!
sam shew
Thread Starter
#19
2nd February 2013
Old 2nd February 2013
  #19
Gear nut
 
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 81

Thread Starter
sam shew is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by haberdasher View Post
I just don't understand how you can be losing the unmastered files "very often"!

If for some reason it sounds better with an extra compressor on on the systems you anticipate it being played back on, then put an extra compressor on. If not, don't. Try using half as much compression for a compromise.

There is no solution, there are lots of options to try. One of which would be to go back to your mastering engineer, explain the situation and see how good a result he/she can get from processing the mastered tracks a second time.
ty for your help my friend !
though my goal is ofc not to make another mastering.

AND SORRY FOR MY DRAMATIC ENGLISH I DO MY BEST !
sam shew
Thread Starter
#20
2nd February 2013
Old 2nd February 2013
  #20
Gear nut
 
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 81

Thread Starter
sam shew is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waltz Mastering View Post
Probably best to catch it in the remix rather than the remasterizing. gl
thanks !
just tell me what you mean here im not sure to understand this last sentence.
#21
2nd February 2013
Old 2nd February 2013
  #21
Lives for gear
 
GJ999x's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2012
Location: London UK
Posts: 1,435

GJ999x is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by BingoBongo View Post
Ye gotta mixerize before you can masterize
Cant do that if your first step was plagerize baboom tsh

But on a serious note this problem often does arise when one is plagerizering.
#22
2nd February 2013
Old 2nd February 2013
  #22
Gear addict
 
Joined: Jan 2009
Location: austria
Posts: 407

AUDIOBOMBER is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by sam shew View Post
Okay so i repeat my question -

i HAVE TO DO VERY OFTEN SOME EDITS TO SONGS ALREADY MASTERISED.

... so whats the best solution ? what you guys would you go in that case ?
1_lower your mastered trax ( volume down )
2_ad what you have to ad.
3_put compressor , eq or whatever you need on your added trax.
4_ put a limiter on the master.
5_bounce
__________________
audiobomber
CASTLE MASTERING
Quote
1
Waltz Mastering
Verified Member
#23
2nd February 2013
Old 2nd February 2013
  #23
Lives for gear
 
Waltz Mastering's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2008
Location: 3rd Stone From The Sun
Posts: 3,268

Verified Member
Waltz Mastering is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by sam shew View Post
thanks !
just tell me what you mean here im not sure to understand this last sentence.
Try to fix the balance issues when you have control of all the individual tracks in the remix -
rather than counting on the balances to be fixed by putting a compressor over the whole mix and thinking that will pull everything into shape. gl
sam shew
Thread Starter
#24
3rd February 2013
Old 3rd February 2013
  #24
Gear nut
 
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 81

Thread Starter
sam shew is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by AUDIOBOMBER View Post
1_lower your mastered trax ( volume down )
2_ad what you have to ad.
3_put compressor , eq or whatever you need on your added trax.
4_ put a limiter on the master.
5_bounce
okay cool !!

compressor only to my new track, but you dont advise to recompress the whole mix with the already masterd tracks right ?

and last one plz, limiter to which level ?
Waltz Mastering
Verified Member
#25
4th February 2013
Old 4th February 2013
  #25
Lives for gear
 
Waltz Mastering's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2008
Location: 3rd Stone From The Sun
Posts: 3,268

Verified Member
Waltz Mastering is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by sam shew View Post

compressor only to my new track, but you dont advise to recompress the whole mix with the already masterd tracks right ?
right
Quote:
Originally Posted by sam shew View Post
and last one plz, limiter to which level ?
Since the play back/source track was already mastered, you'll probably just need a safety limiter with 1 dB gain reduction.. ..maybe hitting 2 dB's at the most. Can set the output ceiling for -.2 dBfs.
Riccardo
Verified Member
#26
4th February 2013
Old 4th February 2013
  #26
Mastering Moderator
 
Riccardo's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2003
Location: Always on the Run
Posts: 3,178

Verified Member
Riccardo is offline
Fixed
#27
4th February 2013
Old 4th February 2013
  #27
Gear addict
 
Joined: Jan 2009
Location: austria
Posts: 407

AUDIOBOMBER is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by sam shew View Post
okay cool !!

compressor only to my new track, but you dont advise to recompress the whole mix with the already masterd tracks right ?

and last one plz, limiter to which level ?
compr. ONLY on your added trax , NOT on the already mastered track.


limiter lightly 0-2 db
Quote
1
#28
4th February 2013
Old 4th February 2013
  #28
Gear interested
 
Joined: Jan 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 23

Lymmusic is offline
As long as try not to affect the existing mastered material too much it may not need a lot of additonal processing. If the track was mastered with a vocal in mind even better...

If your vocal needs a lot of treatment it might be worth working in 24 bit, and a higher sample rate than the mastered 16bit 44 file. In this case, import the mastered file and upscale to match your project, mix it to get a good balance, and alter the levels to prevent clipping etc, but dont render the mix in one go.

Once happy with the mix, mute the mastered file and render out the vocal submix only, but dither it to 16bit 44 - if you know whch dither method was used on the original master then match that if you have the choice.

Create a new project and import the dithered 16 bit 44 vocal submix, and the mastered file. Render this out with no dithering, leaving master fader at -0.3db.

You might need tp put a limiter on the master channel to soften any peaks, but again, make sure it does not apply any further dithering.
#29
5th February 2013
Old 5th February 2013
  #29
Gear nut
 
paintitblack's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 139

paintitblack is offline
You would want to re dither because many programs use 24 or 32 bit processing when adding new edits or effects. For example. Even touchig the master fader in wavelab will make the track process at 24 bit
sam shew
Thread Starter
#30
5th February 2013
Old 5th February 2013
  #30
Gear nut
 
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 81

Thread Starter
sam shew is offline
okay thanks a lot gentlemen !! reallly really !!....
thought it was "fixed" like someone says but .... im very ashamed to say that i heard sometimes about dithering without never knowning the meaning..........
New Reply Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook  Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter  Submit Thread to LinkedIn LinkedIn  Submit Thread to Google+ Google+ 
 
Topic:
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
Antonis2007 / Mastering forum
24
Ravian / Music Computers
3
tcoop001 / Rap + Hip Hop engineering & production
2

Forum Jump

SEO by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.