How do you treat your project's mix buss when planning to master the track yourself?

[Tomas Bykowski]

Your mix buss should be clean when exporting your final mix for mastering. You can add some subtle multiband compression if you feel like you want to stabilize your mix a bit, but really, your master buss should be clean when exporting your final mix.

[NotchontheRocks]

Leave everything off the master buss while mixing and create a mix you are absolutely 100% satisfied with. You should feel as if your mix cannot get any better (besides how loud it is). When you've reached that point, save it, and don't listen to it again for one or two weeks. I've found that in "self-mastering" this is the only way to gain somewhat of a fresh perspective on your mix again. If you are doing an entire album and need to reference your mix in the context of the album, mix the album and put the whole thing away for a couple weeks.

If you try to master your own material right after the mix process, you'll be chasing your own tail.

[wado1942]

I do not ever put any processing on the main buss, regardless of who's mastering it. I also never touch the master faders. Mastering is all about working with the whole collection of songs in context, so I'll get what I think is an ideal mix with only processing I think is necessary for the individual tracks. 95% of the time, I need SOME EQ come mastering time, so why bother having on the main buss if I have to do it again later? You can't undo compression if you find it isn't perfect, so you're stick with it if it's on the main buss of the mix. There's quite a few people who do it, but it's not for people who aren't absolute experts.
Also, if you find yourself using multi-band compressor while you're still in the mixing stage, you probably can't mix well... sorry.

[StringBean]

Wasn't it fairly standard practice to run your mix through that bus compressor on the ssl before sending it to mastering?

[engmix]

Originally Posted by StringBean

Wasn't it fairly standard practice to run your mix through that bus compressor on the ssl before sending it to mastering?

No, not always. I would sometimes add the tiniest bit of compression, mix depending, but the compressor on the desk has a VERY defined sound and effect on a mix. It's sometimes hard to be subtle with it, because even with just a dB of compression you could still hear it, and in more ways than one.

When i use bus compression, i usually go more for a little tightening up so to speak, binging the low end into focus, or just adding the tone of the unit onto the mix. As soon as i sense any lift in density from the compressor, i tend to back off. This is often where you screw things up for mastering. Because the act of bringing up a mix to hotter levels will bring a certain amount of density on it's own. And when you factor in the density from bus compression, after mastering the whole thing can get a bit spongy sounding.

Same goes for multiband compression, but can bring in other elements that can get pulled out of sorts in mastering. It further ties your hands. With that said, sometimes i'll ad a dB or two tops of gain reduction in the uber bottom end via one band only. And this is because i've exhausted every other option in the mix, and it's just not coming together the way i want it too. And then a little touch of bottom end compression can just do the trick.

[wado1942]

Originally Posted by StringBean

Wasn't it fairly standard practice to run your mix through that bus compressor on the ssl before sending it to mastering?

It depends on the engineer. I'll state, though, that hobbyists and beginners don't generally mix on SSLs. That kind of budget was generally reserved for people who REALLY ARE experts.

[NBarnes21]

Thanks for the responses so far. I can definitely see the benefit of waiting a couple weeks before mastering to gain some level of objectivity. I've always thrown a really mild compressor on the bus when starting to mix, just a DB or two of reduction to glue things together a smidge from the get go. Also have been really enjoying using Slate VCC and VTM from the get go, including on the mix buss- it really gels stuff together and is a really great starting point to mix into. So I wonder how that will fit into the mastering equation. Maybe it will just leave less to be done in mastering, because I've been pretty pleased with the mixes I'm getting.

And I've never used a multi band comp on the mix buss when mixing- IMO that's only for subtle drum group shaping during mixing or cleaning up in mastering.

[mu6gr8]

Originally Posted by NBarnes21

I've always thrown a really mild compressor on the bus when starting to mix, just a DB or two of reduction to glue things together a smidge from the get go. Also have been really enjoying using Slate VCC and VTM from the get go, including on the mix buss- it really gels stuff together and is a really great starting point to mix into. So I wonder how that will fit into the mastering equation. Maybe it will just leave less to be done in mastering, because I've been pretty pleased with the mixes I'm getting.

If your mix buss chain is integral to the sound of the mix, do not remove it and expect the mastering engineer to recreate your magic! If you love your compression and EQ, commit to them. Your balances may change if you remove them, depending of course on how liberally you applied them.

That said, I suggest you mix without a peak limiter.

To put things in perspective, I've been in this game for a long time, so I'm very confident in my skills. I have a clear vision before I start working. I begin most mixes with a compressor on the mix buss and additional compressors and EQs on the submixes (busses) that feed the mix buss. I already know how I will set them before I start the mix, then I employ the appropriate gain staging techniques to make the gear operate in the sweet spot, where it was designed to sound best. Even though each of the compressors and EQs may be doing less than 1 dB of GR or boost, they add up to something that would completely change the vibe and balances of the mix if they were removed. I spot check the mix with a peak limiter during the process, and I print two versions of the final main mix: with and without limiting...so that the mastering engineer has a point of reference, re: what the artist likes.

The thing that fascinates me is that a *great* mastering engineer can usually beat my limited version, by making the unlimited mix louder while retaining the illusion of dynamic range.

I've learned that mixing and mastering are in some ways polar opposites: a mix must be *exciting* and a master must be *portable* (translatable to multiple listening environments.) I want the mix to be emotionally unruly and visceral; my mastering engineers want the master to be technically controlled.

Long story short, if you know what you're doing with your mix buss chain, go for it (minus the limiter) and simply give the mastering engineer (even if that's you!) enough headroom to make your great mix sound even better.

[NBarnes21]

Originally Posted by mu6gr8

If your mix buss chain is integral to the sound of the mix, do not remove it and expect the mastering engineer to recreate your magic! If you love your compression and EQ, commit to them. Your balances may change if you remove them, depending of course on how liberally you applied them.

That said, I suggest you mix without a peak limiter.

To put things in perspective, I've been in this game for a long time, so I'm very confident in my skills. I have a clear vision before I start working. I begin most mixes with a compressor on the mix buss and additional compressors and EQs on the submixes (busses) that feed the mix buss. I already know how I will set them before I start the mix, then I employ the appropriate gain staging techniques to make the gear operate in the sweet spot, where it was designed to sound best. Even though each of the compressors and EQs may be doing less than 1 dB of GR or boost, they add up to something that would completely change the vibe and balances of the mix if they were removed. I spot check the mix with a peak limiter during the process, and I print two versions of the final main mix: with and without limiting...so that the mastering engineer has a point of reference, re: what the artist likes.

The thing that fascinates me is that a *great* mastering engineer can usually beat my limited version, by making the unlimited mix louder while retaining the illusion of dynamic range.

I've learned that mixing and mastering are in some ways polar opposites: a mix must be *exciting* and a master must be *portable* (translatable to multiple listening environments.) I want the mix to be emotionally unruly and visceral; my mastering engineers want the master to be technically controlled.

Long story short, if you know what you're doing with your mix buss chain, go for it (minus the limiter) and simply give the mastering engineer (even if that's you!) enough headroom to make your great mix sound even better.

Great post, thanks for the info

[huejahfink]

I'm with mu6gr8 on this one.

Do whatever you feel is right on the mix-buss from your mix. If you like to mix into compression, tape or EQ, then have at it!!
When it comes to all buss processing I think it pays to make all your decisions based on how it sounds, not how loud you can make it or to try to second guess the mastering process.

A little bit of limiting can even be OK if you are just using it to tickle a few stray transients. Some people mix into a limiter all the time and that is part of their sound - it's generally not wise to limit hard before mastering but if the whole mix has been designed in that context, then it's not REALLY the ME's decision to tell you it MUST be removed. That's something to work out between you, and perhaps you could send it with and without but don't be bullied into changing something you instinctively feel is right.

Ultimately, I think the best course of action is to print the mixes exactly how you like them, and then send them off to your ME ahead of time and see what they say. You can tell them how you've treated each track if you like, and they can advise you before the session if any changes might be beneficial.

[SASMastering]

I would probably mix with nothing on the master bus at all with exception to a very small amount of very high quality compression which suits. Get it sounding hunky dory with that and mastering should be very easy.

[NBarnes21]

Thanks for the responses all, so far seems like a matter of opinion. I know what I like on my mix buss so I guess when mastering ill just take that into account and probably end up doing less in that phase

[abechap024]

If you know you are not going to send it off to a mastering engineer, I would say put whatever the freak you want on your masterbus. All these little rules people make up about what you should or shouldn't have were is all completely 100% taste prefrence and opinion.
You might find it more liberatirng to mix into your L2, or you might find that its hard to get a good mix because you'll have a tendancy to try and cram everything into it.
I bet like most anything, you try different things, have some periods of hair pulling frustration and moments of blissful ah-ha moments.
What opened up my mind was hearing some well respected and talented engineers say their goal is when they do a mix and it gets sent to the mastering engineer, that the mastering engineer will have nothing to do.

Why wait to fix it in the mix? Fix the source and those mics! Why wait to get it how you want it to sound till mastering?

All this being said I personally don't like super compressed songs, but mixing with a limiter on your mix bus isn't wrong or bad, its just a different workflow, and doesnt automatically mean your mixes are going to be over compressed.

Otoh if you know your getting your stuff mastered, go ahead and put whatever the freak you want wherever, limiter eq, multiband comp, do a pass, but then bypass them and do another pass to give the ME some options.
Discover your true inner potential!

[marchhare]

Originally Posted by abechap024

If you know you are not going to send it off to a mastering engineer, I would say put whatever the freak you want on your masterbus. All these little rules people make up about what you should or shouldn't have were is all completely 100% taste prefrence and opinion.
You might find it more liberatirng to mix into your L2, or you might find that its hard to get a good mix because you'll have a tendancy to try and cram everything into it.
I bet like most anything, you try different things, have some periods of hair pulling frustration and moments of blissful ah-ha moments.
What opened up my mind was hearing some well respected and talented engineers say their goal is when they do a mix and it gets sent to the mastering engineer, that the mastering engineer will have nothing to do.

Why wait to fix it in the mix? Fix the source and those mics! Why wait to get it how you want it to sound till mastering?

All this being said I personally don't like super compressed songs, but mixing with a limiter on your mix bus isn't wrong or bad, its just a different workflow, and doesnt automatically mean your mixes are going to be over compressed.

Otoh if you know your getting your stuff mastered, go ahead and put whatever the freak you want wherever, limiter eq, multiband comp, do a pass, but then bypass them and do another pass to give the ME some options.
Discover your true inner potential!

+1

[jac]

Mix buss processing is your friend. Try to achive your sound without thinking too much about the mastering process. Be happy with the resulting sound and send it over to your ME.

Just avoid clipping and brickwalling till death, leave some headroom on your master output and everything will be fine.

[Cheebs Goat]

Throw another hat into the ring for doing any processing you want on the mix buss. Sometimes I go with nothing, sometimes I go with some heavy squash.

I also like to toggle a limiter on and off as I mix just so I know none of my choices will come out lifeless on the other end... depending on if there is a chance it will reach for loudness or not.

[badhorsie777]

I'm a self do it aller on my own projects too. I've had success both ways, but its more time consuming to mix clean, wait, approach mastering fresh. Usually get a little better result though - most likely from a fresh set of ears removed from the creative process

[Bob Olhsson]

The only thing to leave off the mix buss is the final limiter.

The reason for this is that you can't know what the final level and eq. needs to be outside the context of a particular album or compilation the track may become a part of. The final level dictates which limiter and limiter settings will sound best.

I do generally put Ozone or PSP Xenon on with flat 24 bit dither enabled and the limiting disabled. (Ozone needs MBIT+ set to "high") I also record to -10 average with peaks to -6 so I'm never compensating for a studio's D to A and monitor system running out of steam.