How to get super loud pop tracks?

[The_K_Man]

Originally Posted by wado1942

I said I can't think of a song that only sounds great as a crushed master. MGMT's demo is about -10dBfs RMS, whereas the "studio" release is about 5dB hotter and sounds horrid, though it's largely the same production style.

I'll take the demo over the studio, thanks.

[wado1942]

Originally Posted by The_K_Man

I'll take the demo over the studio, thanks.

That's what I'M saying!

[marchhare]

Originally Posted by engmix

Who's up for a little friendly Mastering Throw-down. I'll try and provide a minute of a track, a quick but decent mix, and see how far it can get pushed without total destruction. Then we can reveal our process (gear, converters, plugins) and see what the results are... And if someone feels that keeping their Master at -18 RMS verses someone at -8 then cool, we can debate the impact of the results.

Who's in? I personally won't post a track unless there's at least 10 engineers out there willing to dive in.

I'm in.

[Cheebs Goat]

Originally Posted by wado1942

I said I can't think of a song that only sounds great as a crushed master. MGMT's demo is about -10dBfs RMS, whereas the "studio" release is about 5dB hotter and sounds horrid, though it's largely the same production style.

We've just wandered into "agree to dissagree" territory.

[sanddigger1]

Originally Posted by engmix
Who's up for a little friendly Mastering Throw-down. I'll try and provide a minute of a track, a quick but decent mix, and see how far it can get pushed without total destruction. Then we can reveal our process (gear, converters, plugins) and see what the results are... And if someone feels that keeping their Master at -18 RMS verses someone at -8 then cool, we can debate the impact of the results.

Who's in? I personally won't post a track unless there's at least 10 engineers out there willing to dive in.

I'm in too.

[engmix]

Ok, so i've gotten a few PM's from those who are interested in having a bit of fun. And that's the hope, that this is all in good fun, educational, and not a personal verbal smack down. Personally i'm super stoked to have some potential heavy hitters get involved. It will be good to see up and comers get into it too. As well as Digital and Analog Hybrid approaches. Obviously i can't wax any rules with this, it's an open forum, but my hope is, that all involved will reveal their processing chain, software, and concepts into why they did what they did.

In the next 48 to 72 hours (i have some records that i'm in the middle of working on) i will post a minute of a demo that is currently collecting dust. It's in the pop mid tempo realm. It's very dynamic, which will help to make this interesting.

[Babaluma]

i'm in too, but the target is a little unclear. are we supposed to be making it as loud as we can (going against what i would usually go for), or are we going for the best possible sound?

i think you do have to be careful with these shootouts. the way they work on the REP forum with the WUMPs is great (loads of pros helping each other out, and a real lack of egos), but i've seen them get very nasty on certain other forums. i'm just not sure there's enough maturity shown on here for it to be anything other than a huge cluster****.

[engmix]

Originally Posted by Babaluma

i'm in too, but the target is a little unclear. are we supposed to be making it as loud as we can (going against what i would usually go for), or are we going for the best possible sound?

i think you do have to be careful with these shootouts. the way they work on the REP forum with the WUMPs is great (loads of pros helping each other out, and a real lack of egos), but i've seen them get very nasty on certain other forums. i'm just not sure there's enough maturity shown on here for it to be anything other than a huge cluster****.

The thread says it all "loud pop tracks" but that is up to the person mastering the track. Loud with quality being the focus, but i think it will be interesting to see what people think is "good" because one's pancake mastering is another's mojo. As for worrying about the trolls and negativity, well this is an open forum, so other than the moderator shutting down the thread, it's at the mercy of all involved. There's also nothing wrong with a bit of ego flaring, it comes with the territory. The good thing about throw downs, is it pretty much weeds out the idiots.

[Babaluma]

Yep, totally agree, and I am really looking forward to this! Thanks for organising and clarifying the "goal". I'm going to aim for a bit louder than I normally would with a client who asks for it loud/louder, so the k man may not want to listen to my entry...

[The_K_Man]

Originally Posted by Babaluma

Yep, totally agree, and I am really looking forward to this! Thanks for organising and clarifying the "goal". I'm going to aim for a bit louder than I normally would with a client who asks for it loud/louder, so the k man may not want to listen to my entry...

No personal jabs allowed in this contest.

Put that in the books.

[Babaluma]

Good!

I'm not looking forward to having to perceptually volume match all the entries, it's tiresome work, but the only way for a fair appraisal.

I'd actually like to do two, time permitting. Would that be allowed? One for quality, and one for loudness? Or am I crazy to be second guessing myself before we even begin?

[engmix]

Originally Posted by The_K_Man

No personal jabs allowed in this contest.

Put that in the books.

No worries K-man, this is an open forum, all opinions welcome.

[engmix]

Originally Posted by Babaluma

Good!

I'm not looking forward to having to perceptually volume match all the entries, it's tiresome work, but the only way for a fair appraisal.

I'd actually like to do two, time permitting. Would that be allowed? One for quality, and one for loudness? Or am I crazy to be second guessing myself before we even begin?

Yes, this is true, and it would be awesome if someone could pickup the slack on this task, but if i have to do it i will. With that said, i think having the files unmatched will be important as well, so we can just see how a master will impact the listener, who's transients are retained well, who's overall frequency balance is well done, within it's intended perceived volume.

And i don't think that this should be about getting the mix as loud as possible and have it suck, it's about getting it competitive in today's realm, but there be some sonic integrity, and that's where things get interesting, because we all hear differently.

I think instead of doing two, do one that you're happy with, and go with it. It's easy to make a nice sounding master where level is not front and center. But again, don't do something outside of what you would consider good taste. I could get my 14 year old niece to turn a mix up to -6 without worrying about compromise.

[Babaluma]

Yeah, thought about this all afternoon, and you're right. Just go for it and do the best you can with "competitive" level in mind. Which is pretty much what I'm doing every day anyway!

[Nonlinear]

Originally Posted by engmix

Ok, so i've gotten a few PM's from those who are interested in having a bit of fun. And that's the hope, that this is all in good fun, educational, and not a personal verbal smack down. Personally i'm super stoked to have some potential heavy hitters get involved. It will be good to see up and comers get into it too. As well as Digital and Analog Hybrid approaches. Obviously i can't wax any rules with this, it's an open forum, but my hope is, that all involved will reveal their processing chain, software, and concepts into why they did what they did.

In the next 48 to 72 hours (i have some records that i'm in the middle of working on) i will post a minute of a demo that is currently collecting dust. It's in the pop mid tempo realm. It's very dynamic, which will help to make this interesting.

I'm in too. Looking forward to the variety of results.

[engmix]

Ok, i have the demo ready to go. How do i upload a hi res stereo file (24bits 44.1k) into the forum.

[Babaluma]

That would be great!

[Laurend]

I'm in too

[engmix]

Ok, i have the demo ready to go. How do i upload a hi res stereo file (24bits 44.1k) into the forum.

[baskervils]

I'm sure that someone probably already said this, but pushing tape hard makes a tune sound louder than just dropping it digitally. Tape compression!

[Riccardo]

Originally Posted by engmix

Ok, i have the demo ready to go. How do i upload a hi res stereo file (24bits 44.1k) into the forum.

It depends how big it is, up to 9 megs via the attachment manage option.

[Babaluma]

I'm sure it's gonna be bigger than 9MB if it's a 24bit 1 minute snippet. I'd be happy to host it, but only for one week. Should be time enough for all who want to be involved to download it. Let me know if I can help out. Is there no way you could put it on WeTransfer.com and send links to people who send you their email addresses? Not sure if that's doable, but another possible option.

[Laurend]

Any free file sharing service can do the trick. Once the upload done, you just have to share here the download link.
I love this one because of its nice pictures.
https://www.wetransfer.com

[Babaluma]

yeah but i think with wetransfer you can't just provide a link, you need email addresses of recipients. might be wrong though...

[engmix]

I generated a link from my yousendit account.

And i think no one should post their mastering until this Friday or Saturday, giving everyone a few days to get it done. I want to avoid setting any kind of benchmark to reference from, so everyone is flying on their own jet so to speak.

Remember, this is a production demo, rock on with your bad selves.

The audio file is 24bit 44.1 Aiff

https://www.yousendit.com/download/W...QVM5NVUxWjhUQw


By the way, i have to say this whether you like the song or not. This song is under copyright with BMI, and is the sole property of Waxmusic publishing. No one is permitted to copy this song for resale or any other reason without my written consent, for all territories on Earth.

[Babaluma]

thanks, downloading now!

[engmix]

Originally Posted by Babaluma

thanks, downloading now!

Cool, and obviously there are no strict rules, but i think you guys should give it a few days before you post your work...this way others wont be able to use your work as a benchmark to strive for and beyond.

[OpusOfTrolls]

Yeah, okay, but what is the delivery medium? I am just going to assume 320kbps mp3

[Jesse Graffam]

Originally Posted by OpusOfTrolls

Yeah, okay, but what is the delivery medium? I am just going to assume 320kbps mp3

It should be lossless only. lossy codecs don't maintain peak control.

[engmix]

Originally Posted by Jesse Graffam

It should be lossless only. lossy codecs don't maintain peak control.

agreed...