Unity Rock vs. Egg vs. S1X vs. Twins vs. ME Geithain RL 906 vs. KH 120
Anghello
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#91
10th December 2012
Old 10th December 2012
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J.Sandstrom View Post
Good to find that some people know what they are talking about it is very refreshing.

I read so many completely ignorant posts on this forum about monitors that is quite shocking.

Kudos anghello
Very happy for you reply. It's nice to find real pros here.

I heard Twins occasionally and was very disappointed by it's accuracy. I don't want to diss anyone who is using twins. I think they can be enough to do the job. But they color really much. To any engineer happens that when you purchase new speaker you discover its pros at first and then realize its cons. Sometimes it's late and man is involved by business plus expecting some extra for his money.

Recently I was very flustered by selling mines 7 years old Sub12+A7 setup wich was powerful to handle a club. I used it in superb room with ARC. Fine experience. Later I realize that sub is suffering too much at 85hz at 90db (too big membrane) and start to use A7 solely (sub off for more then a year). They are really great and if set right can be very truthful. But they didn't translate accurately every time (master). I happened that sibilants ware not well controlled.. so I tried another speaker JBL 4425.. I had to sell my set-up to buy them.. I did it. We live once.

After few weeks with 4425 I figured out that they are more then big boxes with strange horns. But more importantly mixes start to be full and well balanced. It was a pain in a butt at first time because they sounded too hi-fi to me and making them sound good was a real challenge. However every good song on them was amazing outside. Translation even on crappy speakers sounded great. First month I hated them.. next I fell in love. But.. there was an issue about them:

- need for perfect amp (something like audiophile marantz from 70's with ultra clean path +2000$)
- 2,5-3,5m distance in perfectly threated space.. (uff. that is not that easy)
- build in the wall

Otherwise they are beautiful piece of history and I do respect people who hold them. They are one of the best mixing speakers, however they are not that fast and crystal clear to suit mastering needs. Too much THD when you listen to the source. I need instrument not the speakers. Hard to make them sound balanced. After consulting big mastering guy here I gave up and sold them last month.

S1X are ok. Masters translate great. However stories about blown woofers alerts me a little. Speaker should be a working horse for 4-6 years at least. Being frustrated by pushing them hard is not a good idea.
That's A, B - the top end is little colored. Helps instruments to sound together and more natural way. But I need to hear wordclock differences. This is why I start that run. A7's showed me those differences in its own speacial way. With S1x I hardly compare wav vs. well converted mp3.
Good to say about them is that I found some tiny mistakes in my previous works. I consider them as better for my room conditions then all previous set-ups. Clients love them and they monitor good enough. +-0,3 db changes are audible.



Love low-mid and high-mid in new Adams. Thumbs up Low-mid is full and not cloudy (don't hear location of the speaker and not sounding cold as previous models) and hi-mid is crispy.. this suits me well but need little (5-10db) more headroom to have reserve.

Thank you


here is master i did few mins ago. Was not mixing hard but sounded ok on S1x. I sing the chorus and did the drums btw.
Attached Files
File Type: mp3 master clean.mp3 (8.33 MB, 146 views)
Anghello
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#92
10th December 2012
Old 10th December 2012
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bugnut View Post
After hearing a friend's Adam P22's I was so blown away I began trying out Adams stuff. First was the A7X which I found to be a great tracking speaker but super-average for mixing/mastering. I didn't like the A7X and the P22s I found to sound way better. I then sold off the A7Xs and got some S1Xs. These turned out to be good and bad for me. The good was the clarity was spectacular and I could hear things I never heard before. The bad was the bottom end response was as poor as I've heard in any speaker, so much so that I blew the woofer while tracking bass guitar at relatively moderate levels. I got the S1Xs used but when I sent them to Adam for repair they were still under warranty and they fixed them up for the cost of shipping. The support was first-rate. Subsequently, I have been thinking that the S2X with the 7" woofer would be the good speaker for my room so I ordered a pair from Studio Ekonomik in Montreal. Adam, however, was out of stock on the S2Xs so in the meantime I was sent some S3XVs to use until the S2Xs were ready. The verdict? In my room I don't particularly care for the S3XVs but that is likely due to having to place them only 3 and half apart. I suspect that if I could place them back from the listening position and wider they would sound great. I am still thinking the S2X is going to be a killer speaker in my room. I have a Sub 8 as well but am thinking of trading up to a Sub 10 which might be a better match for the 7 inch in the S2X. Relative to each other in my room, I would rate P22s the best, followed by the S1X (with sub, you will need it), followed by the S3XV followed by the A7X. I am very surprised at how popular the A7X is given I honestly didn't think they were a dramatic step up from my Yorkville YSM-1P which I could probably buy now for $300. Better, YES, but not 6X the price better. I also tried some Dynaudio 6As but I pretty much preferred the whole Adams line to the Dynaudio speakers.
I heard A7X in store and didn't like them immediately. A7 are better IMO. I liked A3x suprisingly as budget speaker with great performance with sub. Adam support is no brainer. Only one company with same attitude to costumer I know is PSI. They are friendly and helpful. I wrote to KS once and had a feeling I bothering them by questioning about their speakers. Other companies can reply after a month. Adam is superb support.

I recommend you not to go into superb low level sub. I had Sub12 man in 25m2 room. Ton of power. But it makes you think you are overpowered and push down low eq. Telephone masters. Sub makes you feel your music is full enough but only until you listen to it on usual speakers. You must control sub-fq for club purpose but take it easy.. you can have cans for this

Yes Sub10 is optimal and great but Sub8 is fine. Get a second Sub 8 ? Its better solution imo. Try this out if you need more bottom. Sub7 is worst product Adam made. But sub 8 is great. Just my 2c.

I am very interested in your S2X comparison to S3X-V. I think S2X could be better. Depends on room.
#93
10th December 2012
Old 10th December 2012
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anghello View Post
I am very interested in your S2X comparison to S3X-V. I think S2X could be better. Depends on room.
Other than the room I didn't really take the time necessary to set up the S3XVs properly since i knew they were going back in a couple weeks. They sound good and it is more of an overall feeling of comfort I don't get from the the way they are currently set up in my room. I have also never really used 3-way speakers before. Maybe they just take a little getting used to. I have a narrow room, about 10 feet wide with the speakers in a relatively high traffic area. The S3XV is a very large box in that room. This room seems to like smaller boxes. S1X is very close but a little small. I don't know how much the box size plays into things but I have a feeling that a bit bigger, ie S2X, would nail it.
#94
12th December 2012
Old 12th December 2012
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anghello View Post
Yes Sub10 is optimal and great but Sub8 is fine. Get a second Sub 8 ? Its better solution imo. Try this out if you need more bottom. Sub7 is worst product Adam made. But sub 8 is great. Just my 2c.
Thanks for this. I don't really have room for a second sub and I admit to feeling more confident with only one. I know most of the top guys recommend 2 subs but to me many consumer playback systems that reproduce really low have just the single sub. My old Yorkvilles had my favorite setup, hit a pedal with your foot to activate the sub and again to deactivate. That way you could mix with no sub and just check in once in a while to make sure things were OK down there. The SUB 8 has the remote volume which is similar but not a straight on/off thing which I prefer. When the S2Xs arrive I'll take a SMAART reading on the bottom end and see how low the SUB 8 can get. You say a SUB 8 is good but a SUB 10 is optimal? While I have this window of opportunity I might as well take advantage of it and get the 10" if it gives me 5-10 extra cycles down there.
#95
12th December 2012
Old 12th December 2012
  #95
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10" sub minimum, if sealed cabinet. No desires for ported subs. YMMV.
#96
13th December 2012
Old 13th December 2012
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anghello View Post

Yes Sub10 is optimal and great but Sub8 is fine. Get a second Sub 8 ? Its better solution imo. Try this out if you need more bottom.

I am very interested in your S2X comparison to S3X-V. I think S2X could be better. Depends on room.
Actually Anghello, I think you are right. I will probably get a second Sub 8 instead of a single Sub 10. Good thinking!
#97
13th December 2012
Old 13th December 2012
  #97
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I tested the EGG's in a ASC Attack wall against the ATC SCM25's it was an eye opening experience. Basically the EGG's placed within 5-10% of having the exact same sound reproduction as the SCM25's. I would say the mids were a tad forward on the EGG's Definitely impressive. Of course now I am also looking at the Pelonis 42's along with a Sub. I totally get the whole powered monitors but with external amps . You always stand a chance sacrifice something amp wise with internally mounted amps.

Oh and this is not to belittle the ATC's I happen to like them a lot and think they are great. I just wanted to see just how good the EGG's could really be as they had already impressed me. Bang for the Buck is what you are getting at $2500 for the EGG's.
Anghello
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#98
13th December 2012
Old 13th December 2012
  #98
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Thank you very much for your post.

F$$$^ck.. I already kept the S1X

Got to consider about them again.


I have a question about EGGs.. What about bass respond? Do they go low enough? Are they loud and clean?
#99
13th December 2012
Old 13th December 2012
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anghello View Post
Thank you very much for your post.

F$$$^ck.. I already kept the S1X

Got to consider about them again.
There is a good chance you will love them. You kind of have to listen to the bass a bit differently. It's there it just doesn't punch you in the face. Mixes translate very well though. Hip-hop/rap may be a challenge. Rock, classical, jazz, they will be outstanding.
Anghello
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#100
14th December 2012
Old 14th December 2012
  #100
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Anghello's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by bugnut View Post
There is a good chance you will love them. You kind of have to listen to the bass a bit differently. It's there it just doesn't punch you in the face. Mixes translate very well though. Hip-hop/rap may be a challenge. Rock, classical jazz, they will be good.
This is very true - depends on genre. But bottom is not what it is all about.. however many beginners think it is.

What about distortion on higher levels (75-85db) ?

Thank you
Anghello
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#101
15th December 2012
Old 15th December 2012
  #101
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It seems S1x are better then Rocks. I let you guys know. Rocks are bass heavier (as S2X) but SX sounds deeper.
#102
15th December 2012
Old 15th December 2012
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anghello View Post
This is very true - depends on genre. But bottom is not what it is all about.. however many beginners think it is.

What about distortion on higher levels (75-85db) ?

Thank you
Well, for me 75-85 db is extremely low monitoring but at those levels and right up to 95 (and probably beyond) they are clear as a bell. I'm not really a specs guy so I don't know the technical distortion stats.

BTW, I just finished mastering a hip-hop project on the S3XVs and for that project they performed as well as any speaker I've heard. I don't know if I'm just getting used to them or what. I did move them a little further apart and that appeared to improve things tremendously. Low-mids were so tight and clear. I will do a shootout between these and the S2Xs when they arrive.
lucey
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#103
15th December 2012
Old 15th December 2012
  #103
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Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anghello View Post
It seems S1x are better then Rocks. I let you guys know. Rocks are bass heavier (as S2X) but SX sounds deeper.
Not to pick on your post yet before concluding anything, everyone posting should refer to the quality of their mixes through a given monitor.

Playback is not the measure of a mix tool.
#104
15th December 2012
Old 15th December 2012
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dpro View Post
I tested the EGG's in a ASC Attack wall against the ATC SCM25's it was an eye opening experience. Basically the EGG's placed within 5-10% of having the exact same sound reproduction as the SCM25's. I would say the mids were a tad forward on the EGG's Definitely impressive. Of course now I am also looking at the Pelonis 42's along with a Sub. I totally get the whole powered monitors but with external amps . You always stand a chance sacrifice something amp wise with internally mounted amps.

Oh and this is not to belittle the ATC's I happen to like them a lot and think they are great. I just wanted to see just how good the EGG's could really be as they had already impressed me. Bang for the Buck is what you are getting at $2500 for the EGG's.
I have the EGG's and have liked them very much. I tested a number of monitors and I thought for the price range I couldn't do any better. My mixes thank me. I always wonder if the power amp that comes with the EGGS could be cleaned up a little and if that would help.

Also did you have the eq set flat on the EGG's?
#105
18th December 2012
Old 18th December 2012
  #105
They are all in BOXES and ENCLOSURES, and subject to resonances which get reflected back into the speakers and the result is a colored sound.
Anghello
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#106
24th December 2012
Old 24th December 2012
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bugnut View Post
After hearing a friend's Adam P22's I was so blown away I began trying out Adams stuff. First was the A7X which I found to be a great tracking speaker but super-average for mixing/mastering. I didn't like the A7X and the P22s I found to sound way better. I then sold off the A7Xs and got some S1Xs. These turned out to be good and bad for me. The good was the clarity was spectacular and I could hear things I never heard before. The bad was the bottom end response was as poor as I've heard in any speaker, so much so that I blew the woofer while tracking bass guitar at relatively moderate levels. I got the S1Xs used but when I sent them to Adam for repair they were still under warranty and they fixed them up for the cost of shipping. The support was first-rate. Subsequently, I have been thinking that the S2X with the 7" woofer would be the good speaker for my room so I ordered a pair from Studio Ekonomik in Montreal. Adam, however, was out of stock on the S2Xs so in the meantime I was sent some S3XVs to use until the S2Xs were ready. The verdict? In my room I don't particularly care for the S3XVs but that is likely due to having to place them only 3 and half apart. I suspect that if I could place them back from the listening position and wider they would sound great. I am still thinking the S2X is going to be a killer speaker in my room. I have a Sub 8 as well but am thinking of trading up to a Sub 10 which might be a better match for the 7 inch in the S2X. Relative to each other in my room, I would rate P22s the best, followed by the S1X (with sub, you will need it), followed by the S3XV followed by the A7X. I am very surprised at how popular the A7X is given I honestly didn't think they were a dramatic step up from my Yorkville YSM-1P which I could probably buy now for $300. Better, YES, but not 6X the price better. I also tried some Dynaudio 6As but I pretty much preferred the whole Adams line to the Dynaudio speakers.
Did your S2X arrive?

So your conclusion is that S1X with sub8 is better then S3X-V? I've compared S3X-V with S3X-H and preferred vertical.

You consider P22 are better then S1X+sub8. Better in what areas? Precision / mix translation / bottom end / "3D" depth / ...

Thanks,
#107
24th December 2012
Old 24th December 2012
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anghello View Post
Did your S2X arrive?

So your conclusion is that S1X with sub8 is better then S3X-V? I've compared S3X-V with S3X-H and preferred vertical.

You consider P22 are better then S1X+sub8. Better in what areas? Precision / mix translation / bottom end / "3D" depth / ...

Thanks,
Actually, the S3XV is growing on me big time but I don't have the space to set them up properly. My conclusion is the S3XV is better than the S1X w/sub but if you have a really small room S1X is perfect. S3X has better clarity in the lower mids. S1X is great in the upper mids and with sub you will get the lows. I preferred P22 to S1X because of the lower mids as well even though the S1X is clearer in the upper mids. If you monitor at really low volumes the S1X is great. I don't like the S1X cranked though as the upper mids get kind of harsh. The S3XV translates so great, especially lower mids. It really makes you work to get things right down there. S2X should be here soon and I will compare S2X and S3X. My buddy thinks I'm crazy to go S2X over S3X because he loves the S3X and we are both getting good results on them but I am in a near-field situation and probably will prefer proper near-fields. I can get the tweeter lower on my stands which allows me to sit lower to have better access to to my outboard gear and is better ergonomically. S3XV is amazing and I still might keep them if the S2X doesn't sound as good in the low mids.
Anghello
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#108
24th December 2012
Old 24th December 2012
  #108
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Anghello's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by bugnut View Post
Actually, the S3XV is growing on me big time but I don't have the space to set them up properly. My conclusion is the S3XV is better than the S1X w/sub but if you have a really small room S1X is perfect. S3X has better clarity in the lower mids. S1X is great in the upper mids and with sub you will get the lows. I preferred P22 to S1X because of the lower mids as well even though the S1X is clearer in the upper mids. If you monitor at really low volumes the S1X is great. I don't like the S1X cranked though as the upper mids get kind of harsh. The S3XV translates so great, especially lower mids. It really makes you work to get things right down there. S2X should be here soon and I will compare S2X and S3X. My buddy thinks I'm crazy to go S2X over S3X because he loves the S3X and we are both getting good results on them but I am in a near-field situation and probably will prefer proper near-fields. I can get the tweeter lower on my stands which allows me to sit lower to have better access to to my outboard gear and is better ergonomically. S3XV is amazing and I still might keep them if the S2X doesn't sound as good in the low mids.
Marry Christmas BTW!

after few weeks with S1X they started perform completely opposite from what I was hearing in the beginning. Very full and natural sounding speaker. They are compromising frequencies above 16-17khz in matter of ear fatigue.. but I preferred harsh sounding original Adam tweeter. Nevertheless sound is much fuller and articulate. It really performs as there is no speaker - only music.

However it is very true that there is no sub-bas. Ok, they can play base guitar quite loud and articulation of lower-mid/bass started to be very great and loud enough after burn-in. It is really way difference. I do not use sub. Maybe in future to separate 50-60hz to get extra headroom.

I suggest you to get S2X and burn them in for first few days before comparison to S3X-V.
#109
24th December 2012
Old 24th December 2012
  #109
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Merry Christmas for all !!! Anghello, now that your s1x are performing different than when you bought them, I think will be great if you make a new arc, if possible with arc2 (way superior than first edition). Also I've been reading lots of good comments on ks digital c55 (most of them say that they are so much clearer than c88), but don't now nothing who have them around me to test them :S
Anghello
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#110
25th December 2012
Old 25th December 2012
  #110
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Originally Posted by EL_HERALDO View Post
Merry Christmas for all !!! Anghello, now that your s1x are performing different than when you bought them, I think will be great if you make a new arc, if possible with arc2 (way superior than first edition). Also I've been reading lots of good comments on ks digital c55 (most of them say that they are so much clearer than c88), but don't now nothing who have them around me to test them :S
Marry Christmas to you too El Heraldo!!

Yes. They perform complete opposite. Stereo became much fuller, wider, deeper and natural. Loudness raise to 95db and at this volume performs without audible distortion. Loud enough!

First hour I heard them (I had new) it was obvious something is wrong. First seconds you could clearly listen how every minute speaker performance and frequency respond changes. After an hour they really sounded like yamaha (I think you told this already).. blurry mid-range no bass and strange hi-end. Awful. I was very disappointed and was ready to send them back immediately. They were also very limited in volume.. around 50-60db max. Every db above made that hardware membrane clip and each time I though I blown the speaker and was quite obsessed how it will affect the performance. After this clip there was little fold on speaker foam. Nightmare.

At second day, they start to sound like A7 but without that low-mid. I tried to play some Latino-dance music and bass definitely sounded distorted. When base and kick where playing together they didn't sound tight but very blurred. I thought that was a last day with them. However gave them a second chance and put the jazz music at 50-60db and left the room for two hours. When I returned back I noticed behind the door already that music is playing much louder.. I mean around 70+ db. I controlled the speakers and all clear there. That tiny fold on membrane foam i mention before disappeared.

Third day I had a session and had to do some demo mastering. So the job was done fine and after a car-cheek I liked the translation. No surprises. I know my musician's car is very aggressive on sibilants.. I always had a problem with A7 to set them right (only con of that speaker). "s" was really tight and perfect.

I liked the translation but disliked the volume levels. Ok, they perform well around 70-80 now.. but it is still quite low as max monitor level. Was on weight if I should change them for bigger S2x.

Two-three sessions left.. and next week my friend asked me to bring them to his studio and I did so. They were playing for few hours there just to listen some material. This is important part because he have annual threated studio.. around 20m2 and 8m2 of acoustic panels. He was shocked by how articulate they are.. ok, he have those shadow-black m-audios.. no surprise. But they performed quite nice. Ok, less precise and good as in my room but still workable. We pushed them hard and after those few hours I've noticed a deeper bass respond. Sound like there is a sub.

Next week using them I stayed calm. However tried few other speakers and disliked results with them. Distortions and frequency respond, translation is perfect.

Last two days I had to master important song. I took me two days to make three masters and every time I could not make a colored master. I donno.. just they are too clean and precise.. very natural souding. This is great. In fact to have a speaker that helps you to get notebook-audible results. Masters changed.

Precision of instrument placement, stereo and depth is more controlled. I have to add that SX sounds more aggressive to me then A7 in 8-12khz range and I thought it would affect results in a bad way. The truth is the opposite. No blurry masters anymore. Every distortion is very audible. Output is really clean to my ears.

I don't use them every day.. however the month has gone. I have to learn them. But they are completely different speaker then A7 was. I knew them very well and they are my beloved. However A7 cannot give you that precision of S1X.. plus surprisingly S1X goes deeper then A7. New adam tweeter also sounds more omni directional and natural. Translation is fantastic. I really think this is revolutionary speaker. If you are familiar with Etymotic headphones this is the sound you get from S1X but in space and color. This is not old Adam, this is completely different speaker with better characteristics. Burn-in with A7 took me about two-three days. S1X are still audibly burning in.. this tiny speaker is producing really good bottom and moving really fast and accurate. You simply choose the instrument you are mixing in the air and moving it back-forward, -+2° left-righ.. monitoring area is 3m wide, 3m deep and 3 high. I tried to stay 1m upper then monitors and stereo was still like in front of me.

Have to say that I am holding my pants while pushing them loud around 90-100db now because I hear bottom around 40hz (maybe less) at this volume from that small cabinet.. and it makes me feel it's the last second with them. But surprisingly they are playing constant and precise. I personally don't need sub or S2X. I heard KS occasionally but there are two things I really disliked: 1) soft hi-end. 2) support don't give s.it about your questions. and two things I really like about Adam. 1) I am 300km away from the factory and that technician friend told me that I can come anytime and he would calibrate/manage my speakers. This means for 5 years I can blow my speaker many times I want and they would fix it in two-three days. 2) They change any part that is not performance paired in next 5 years. Now tell me if Rocks can do this for you or KS? Don't think so. I believe I would keep them as near-field and purchase some mid-fields in future. I think this is good investment.


Only con to me is that they are not magnetically shielded.
Just my 2c.
#111
25th December 2012
Old 25th December 2012
  #111
Gear Head
 

For all my previous praise of the low mids on the S3X I just turned in a mix where the client loved the beds but asked me to change the vocals. After a couple hours of frustration from not being able to get a feel for how the vocals should sit I replaced the S3X with the S1X and the vocals became a breeze to slot in. If the S2X are halfway between the two it will be the best of both worlds for me.
Anghello
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#112
27th December 2012
Old 27th December 2012
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bugnut View Post
For all my previous praise of the low mids on the S3X I just turned in a mix where the client loved the beds but asked me to change the vocals. After a couple hours of frustration from not being able to get a feel for how the vocals should sit I replaced the S3X with the S1X and the vocals became a breeze to slot in. If the S2X are halfway between the two it will be the best of both worlds for me.
I think I get your point.

I run S1X withou sub for almost a month now. And today first time I have an first issue.

Client brought an notebook-made "wu-tang" style instrumentals. And all of them have f.c.d up base line. Some cheap base-line plug-in where every note is sounding different in volume levels and tonality changes too.

I run S1X without sub and mixed/master few tracks in standard mode. While kicks were pushed to +3db in mixing process todays car-test was nightmare. In one of three tracks there were no lows in kick (under 40) in one master at all and I couldn't identify it in a room. So basically I have no controlled low end at all. Base line was also not well controlled. Only one of three went really perfect. However upper translation was very nice and actually sound very good.

I have a question for you bugnut

Do you think S1X+Sub8 is better mixing tool then S3X-V or it is a completely different league? S3X-V are really that better for mastering? I consider to buy one Sub8 now and add another later if would be necessary. IMO you are very right to get S2X and I believe you will be very happy with them. But I want three-way anyway. I think it is better to run S1X then S2X with 85hz cut with sub8 because it's a smaller speaker and it can move much faster. However I can be wrong.. they also have different amps and performance may vary.

All mixes translates great in mid-range hi-end area. But it seems they really suffer from deep tones. I just thinking if sub8 would change the game a lot.. or go for Unity Rocks. I can also get Sub10 or 12.. But in my experience Sub12 is too big for rooms under 30m2.

Need your advice on this. Actually funny thing is that it seems we both are looking for the best monitoring in SX area) But can't find what is the best set there.
#113
28th December 2012
Old 28th December 2012
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anghello View Post
I think I get your point.

I run S1X withou sub for almost a month now. And today first time I have an first issue.

Client brought an notebook-made "wu-tang" style instrumentals. And all of them have f.c.d up base line. Some cheap base-line plug-in where every note is sounding different in volume levels and tonality changes too.

I run S1X without sub and mixed/master few tracks in standard mode. While kicks were pushed to +3db in mixing process todays car-test was nightmare. In one of three tracks there were no lows in kick (under 40) in one master at all and I couldn't identify it in a room. So basically I have no controlled low end at all. Base line was also not well controlled. Only one of three went really perfect. However upper translation was very nice and actually sound very good.

I have a question for you bugnut

Do you think S1X+Sub8 is better mixing tool then S3X-V or it is a completely different league? S3X-V are really that better for mastering? I consider to buy one Sub8 now and add another later if would be necessary. IMO you are very right to get S2X and I believe you will be very happy with them. But I want three-way anyway. I think it is better to run S1X then S2X with 85hz cut with sub8 because it's a smaller speaker and it can move much faster. However I can be wrong.. they also have different amps and performance may vary.

All mixes translates great in mid-range hi-end area. But it seems they really suffer from deep tones. I just thinking if sub8 would change the game a lot.. or go for Unity Rocks. I can also get Sub10 or 12.. But in my experience Sub12 is too big for rooms under 30m2.

Need your advice on this. Actually funny thing is that it seems we both are looking for the best monitoring in SX area) But can't find what is the best set there.
Even with the sub I sometimes find the lower mids difficult to judge with the S1X. If I am ever working on something and can't really hear the low lows I generally leave them alone. Maybe an HPF which frequency I will determine by how it affects the stuff I can hear. Usually anywhere from 20-33HZ. If I'm really in the dark I might just put it in the low 20's and not think about it. I think the S1X is best for small rooms, maybe even placed near a wall. Even though I wouldn't do that the guy I bought them off had them set near a wall and the low mids were more tangible. Also, I always run my satellites full range and will never low cut them, even when using a sub. As for the varying volumes of the bass notes most guys would probably multi-band compress that but I would probably edit and automate each note by hand.
Anghello
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#114
1st January 2013
Old 1st January 2013
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bugnut View Post
Even with the sub I sometimes find the lower mids difficult to judge with the S1X. If I am ever working on something and can't really hear the low lows I generally leave them alone. Maybe an HPF which frequency I will determine by how it affects the stuff I can hear. Usually anywhere from 20-33HZ. If I'm really in the dark I might just put it in the low 20's and not think about it. I think the S1X is best for small rooms, maybe even placed near a wall. Even though I wouldn't do that the guy I bought them off had them set near a wall and the low mids were more tangible. Also, I always run my satellites full range and will never low cut them, even when using a sub. As for the varying volumes of the bass notes most guys would probably multi-band compress that but I would probably edit and automate each note by hand.
Happy new year. Did your S2X arrived?

I think you should try to low cut them. Because S1X hardly reproduce anything under 50hz. So if you high-pass them at 50-60 and let the sub play everything under it - they should perform faster. Dolby recommends cut subs at 85hz, Adam at 75hz. I also think that cut should be around 70hz. In this case IMO you would get better performance of S1X then S3X-V if monitors and sub placed properly. Should run a tone swap and listen how it performs.

Two years ago when I was testing new S3X-V/S3X-H and A7X/A3X speakers. I let A3X outperform S3X-V in depth, space and stereo. My friend-seller was very surprised too.

The key was to set Sub12 to run frequencies up to 85hz, then lowcut it and route directly to Sub8 which run up to 150hz. A3X were hipassed at 150hz. So basically:

22-85 hz Sub 12
85-150 hz Sub 8
150hz - 50khz A3X

The sound in comparison to S3X-V was fuller especially in drums part. Kicks and toms became very separated and clear.

Anghello
Thread Starter
#115
1st January 2013
Old 1st January 2013
  #115
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Originally Posted by EL_HERALDO View Post
Merry Christmas for all !!! Anghello, now that your s1x are performing different than when you bought them, I think will be great if you make a new arc, if possible with arc2 (way superior than first edition). Also I've been reading lots of good comments on ks digital c55 (most of them say that they are so much clearer than c88), but don't now nothing who have them around me to test them :S
Now I can surely say that S1X performs much better when burn-inn. They became louder, bass-stable and dynamic. Muffy and harsh sound disappeared and stereo became more articulate and precise. Ok, they are not full-range but they go unbelievably low for such small speaker. It's hard to locate monitors by ear.

I think S2X would be better sounding because it has more powerful amp in it. Am I quite disappointed now that didn't change them to higher model last month or tryed KS88. But I had to use monitors no time for picking up. Sub would fix it IMO.
#116
19th February 2013
Old 19th February 2013
  #116
3 + infractions, forum membership suspended.
 

Same process here ..still wondering S2X +sub (even s1x) or S3x H
Anghello
Thread Starter
#117
21st February 2013
Old 21st February 2013
  #117
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Originally Posted by Jeezo View Post
Same process here ..still wondering S2X +sub (even s1x) or S3x H
My friend. I guarantee you that you would be blown away with S1X in nearfield range. Ok, first month I was confused about its performance because it need a month to burn-in. They don't go very loud or los. However they are very precise, natural, definite and simply open.

They do not sound as S1As.. these speakers were more into needle sounding aggression. SX are also way forward of AX series. I was thinking I would need a sub with S1X and I don't. I can have Sub12 paired with them.. but there it's not necessary. Thats just me.

I would not choose S3X if you don't need extra power. If your mixing levels are around 70-85db. S1X is fully ok for that. If you want to be bouncy and get that 90db clear peak.. get S2X. Or I do recommend S4X for larger rooms. All these speakers are sounding extremely close to each other. Only power is the difference.

If you have any questions. Feel free to ask. Would like to share my experience.

only monitors I am ready to get are PSI, Unity Audio. Not as a replace. But a second more-powered pair (boulders or 25M)
Nau
#118
21st February 2013
Old 21st February 2013
  #118
Nau
Gear interested
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeezo View Post
Same process here ..still wondering S2X +sub (even s1x) or S3x H
If you will do some mastering - try to avoid sub in the system.
There are some great small monitors with a nice flat and deep bass response.

Regards!
#119
21st February 2013
Old 21st February 2013
  #119
3 + infractions, forum membership suspended.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anghello View Post
My friend. I guarantee you that you would be blown away with S1X in nearfield range. Ok, first month I was confused about its performance because it need a month to burn-in. They don't go very loud or los. However they are very precise, natural, definite and simply open.

They do not sound as S1As.. these speakers were more into needle sounding aggression. SX are also way forward of AX series. I was thinking I would need a sub with S1X and I don't. I can have Sub12 paired with them.. but there it's not necessary. Thats just me.

I would not choose S3X if you don't need extra power. If your mixing levels are around 70-85db. S1X is fully ok for that. If you want to be bouncy and get that 90db clear peak.. get S2X. Or I do recommend S4X for larger rooms. All these speakers are sounding extremely close to each other. Only power is the difference.

If you have any questions. Feel free to ask. Would like to share my experience.

only monitors I am ready to get are PSI, Unity Audio. Not as a replace. But a second more-powered pair (boulders or 25M)

Well today was a LONGGGGG day ...


Been in a shop to test the SM9 and S3X( but not set properly) ....and the first thing i can say is dat (as i write listen to it) i have a fukinggg great system at home !!! i mean i will start ,in forums for those giving extravagant feedback that blows this and that ...., by asking the room freq response !!!


As mine thks to ARC and treatment is pretty good with the usal small bump at 35 and hole at 60 due to wall proximity ...but only +-2db !


So SM9 : very smmooth detailed , no stress ear fatigue to decern instruments !!

Then i start going deep in those ....and i starting to think about 2 things : first as i ear stuff , do they tell me what to do ? not sure ....quite forgiving in some areas (highs , dynamic) this was obvious with Willie Nelson "A horse called Music " .... so you guyz please check and tell me ....Nelson voice is forward on adam and you clearly hear drums and all stuff behind like on scene ....i must admit that the harmonica was like crazy natural .....more than on my adams ...(at home) but that dynmaic ranges , way more detailed than twins is still inferior to ADam imho ....i will say even under opal (by recalling my experience with them )

Then on Depeche mod "wrong" ...the details were crazy but while on my system there's a good balance between sides an center in the hook (quite noisy !!lol) on the focals we were on the limit on the voice being not as loud in center ....

This confirm my impression of those sounds hifi ...(in a good way ) , smooth (too smooth) (i'm used to dat but ij my cars all Focal system and Audison) ....

BUT i msut say that i compare a monitors on a good listening envirmment vesus one system fully tuned (mine) so i must just think , ok how those will sound in my room !!

OTHER big thing is that i'm suprise that even in small room , it's ok !! great news ...

All i can say is that i'm supposed to selll my P11A +sub 8 on saturday and i can't believe how i'm not no more to do it !!


Of course the shop didn't had the S1x/S2x !! only ax crap

Also i also confirmed to myself that the Solo Be is better than the twin !!

The sm9 highs are smoother than twins ...

So now Anghello , i join to your statement fully , at a ceratin level of a line , brand the only difference is power !!! i'm pretty sure now that the S2X are S3xh lesss powerfull ...i really wasn't feeling some crazy diffrent due to the mid driver ....i reminber not being a fan of the S old series and choose the P because of the way they feel more natural ....less rigid ..faster ...

So now i must ask myself is the S2X are a step up or not ...alll i can say is that using 2ways +sub is the ulitmate 3 way system !! you can also play with subs to optimise bass cancellation on the sweet spot -by using several subs . but for now i will keep one sub and think about it ....

I don't do mastering (i can but like to send them for a second ear )

another opton is S1X + event opal (for power) and i will be still under SM9 ! lol and S3XH !!
#120
21st February 2013
Old 21st February 2013
  #120
3 + infractions, forum membership suspended.
 

Tracks for the test :

Kendrick lamar (great for layers in voices and ambiances)

1) Bitch don't kill my vibe
2) Swimmings pools (great to judge time based effects predelays ..)
3) Money trees

R kelly :

1) Love letter
2) Number one hit
3) not feeling the love

Depeche mod :

1) wrong
2) jezebel

N.E.R.D

1) i 've seen the light

USHER

1) Climax
2) Dive

Willie nelson

1) A horse called music
2) That's all there is to this song

Nelly

1) Gone
2 ) Without here (harsness detector !! lol)

Jamie foxx

1) Winner (cool to detect Timbo beat box percussion and aprreciate percusssion on TI side)
2) Freak (ricolove voice : you really feel the ambiance , space created by the reverb ...also autotune used on the verse )

those are some of the test track i had more but that's enought .....here ...
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