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Unity Rock vs. Egg vs. S1X vs. Twins vs. ME Geithain RL 906 vs. KH 120
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Anghello
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#61
3rd December 2012
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Originally Posted by EL_HERALDO View Post
I've tested 88, I think they are too slow on transients and a little bit shy in the mid range. Another thing, I will recommend you to buy ARC2 because is a very very veeeeeryyy BIG improvement over the first edition.
Thank you VERY much!

This is the answer I was looking for. I tried ARC2 and it sounds like analog 32 band equalizer.. in fact better. Because I've tried 31 band eq with low-cut stuff etc and didn't like it. ARC is great tool. But you need perfect-fast speaker for it.

So you think SX tweeters are not that articulate-fast as Opals?
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3rd December 2012
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It's a personal preference as to what you will like, don't listen to others in what they feel is better because that's a personal opinion. When it comes to monitors only you can know what will be best for you, there is no one monitor better than the rest.

Regarding the Adams, if your having limitations with the S1X you need to look at the S2X, the S1X is a great monitor considering it's size but the S2X don't have the limitations, goes deep down low and goes very loud with clean mid range (And stays clean with high SPL if needed) and then the S3X, S4X, but depends on budget. The Adam tweeters are also very personal, some people find them to have the best detail / openness, others don't like them, as said it's very personal.
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3rd December 2012
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True, monitors are like tastes. But when I tried s1x they were not for me, they remember me hs80m but very superior in all ways, the sounded boxy and hyped in the high end (but they weren't burned in). Recently I've tried Eve audio sc208 and really liked them, they are what adams are trying to be, incredible low end and great representation without adam's "harsh". My way to go in the next year is between the next monitors :
Lipinsky L-707A <===> Event Opal, also I really love Neumann KH120 but they need a sub (their chart frequency say they go linear to 60hz but they fart when trying with 808 subkicks and -5, -8 rms mastered works). PMC is great for acoustic or european pop or rock but not like them for other styles like electro,hip hop, r'n'b, power metal.
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3rd December 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EL_HERALDO View Post
True, monitors are like tastes. But when I tried s1x they were not for me, they remember me hs80m but very superior in all ways, the sounded boxy and hyped in the high end (but they weren't burned in). without adam's "harsh". My way to go in the next year is between the next monitors :
.

This is the problem here, the Adams take a long while to burn in, before they are the tweeter sounds over the top, harsh and hyped, but once it's burned in properly this all goes away and you have a very mellow/tame yet open and detailed tweeter. You can only really judge the Adam tweeter after they have been burned in properly otherwise you get a misjudgment of how it actually is. I'd strongly suggest testing out S2X when they are burned in properly, and then chose between those and the Opals as you seem on a budget.
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3rd December 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECM View Post
This is the problem here, the Adams take a long while to burn in, before they are the tweeter sounds over the top, harsh and hyped, but once it's burned in properly this all goes away and you have a very mellow/tame yet open and detailed tweeter. You can only really judge the Adam tweeter after they have been burned in properly otherwise you get a misjudgment of how it actually is. I'd strongly suggest testing out S2X when they are burned in properly, and then chose between those and the Opals as you seem on a budget.
Thanks for your post. I agree that S1X sound is changing every day.. before it was sort of mellow.. now it articulates better. However low-mid are not burned-in yet. I should wait to have finally understand if I like them or no.

One technician friend from Adam audio told me that he likes S2X the most (more then S1x and S3x). Interesting. I definitely know that he knows what he is talking about. It seems that S2X is best two way speaker Adam ever made. And bigger brothers are bigger in power to handle bigger rooms - thats it.

I am actually thinking about S2X because Adam suit me well. But S1X are not burned yet so have to wait a few days before decision. Would cheek out Eve audio

Opals / Adam S2X / Eve SC208 / PSI 25 / Rock

Any experience post would be very appreciated.

Opals seems to be overpowered for me. I can work with S1X but need extra db to have reserve at 70db. Eve is very interesting alternative with great pricing. PSI is swiss precision and well build monitor. And rock seems to be very great but limited for space.
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3rd December 2012
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Give those S1X's a couple more weeks yet, then after that and the burn in process is done see how you get on with them. It's easy to make a mistake and judge a monitor before it's burned in properly. Some manufacturers do the burn in at their factories but the likes of Adam & Focal need quite extensive burn in time before getting to their optimal sound.

The output is quite allot higher on the S2X, similar to the A7X (As powerful as some midfield's)
Anghello
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3rd December 2012
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Thanks,

yeah. It seems bit limited for me yet. In fact now I am sure KH 120 is not what I need. I would give them some time and maybe they would convince me. However more and more I am considering S2X.. really. It's simply my personal taste maybe. I am very interested where I would stop finally

Thanks all of you guys sharing you experience and giving any information about comparison side-by-side. I believe this would help a lot to people here to invest properly.

Please be open to share more and more!
Anghello
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3rd December 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EL_HERALDO View Post
Recently I've tried Eve audio sc208 and really liked them, they are what adams are trying to be, incredible low end and great representation without adam's "harsh".
Do you think they are more articulate/precise then burn-in adam or Opals?
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4th December 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anghello View Post
If I would not like S1X would give a try to Egg. Anyone tryed EGG vs. Neumann vs. S1X?
Hey Anghello! I just recently went through the same problem. I went down to VKLA and was able to do a shootout between all the monitors mentioned in your post and many more including PMC, ATC, K&H, Dynaudio, Barefoot, etc. (except the Rock, and from Adam I tried A7x, S2x, S3X-V, S3X-H).

Bottom line: I had to stretch the budget, but the winner was clear for me... Adam S2X!!!

The S2X was really in a league of it's own compared to those you listed in your original post.

As far as your quote above, the Eggs weren't bad (I even got to meet Andy Munro and talk to him about their design), but didn't have the richness of the S2X and really lacked low end. The Neumanns were not on the same level at all. They are way too hyed in the low and high end for mixing IMHO. They sounded relatively good when hyped; like some hi-fi Bose or something, but not right for mixing.

Another honorable mention goes to the Focal Twins. The Twins were actually really nice and I could definitely do good work with them, but while using my reference CD of reference mixes I really know, they had me questioning the low end a little more than I would like.

One of the things that blew me away when doing the shootout was how vastly different all the monitors sounded. It wasn't like doing a shootout of 1176 plugins where they all sound about the same. There were clear winners and losers.

For me, the ultimate winners were the Adam S2X! I did not have any issues at all with a harsh top end, and I didn't feel like I needed to "burn them in" excessively if at all. The detail from the S2Xs made me re-fall in love with music! I know it sounds dramatic, but it's true! They really have a magic to them the way they let you feel like you are swimming inside the music. It's like music in 3D!!! The stereo image is fantastic, but the best part is the amazing balance within the frequencies. The lows are rich and deep; the mids are focused and true, and the highs are clear and crisp! It has the best of all worlds!

It's improved my mixing much more than I care to admit! I can really hear the flaws in my old mixes and can get right to the issue. Before, I was guessing a lot more because I didn't have as clear of a picture in the bass or low mids. Now, I am truly mixing with confidence! I used to do a mix and burn a CD to take to other systems for reference and would have to come back and tweak the mix so many times it would take me forever to call a mix done! Now, I can do it once with confidence!

As a side note, the S3Xs sounded great too, but they really sounded very similar to the S2X. For the price difference, I think the only thing I might be "missing" is the power/volume of the S3Xs, but in my environment, that's not really necessary. The S2Xs are plenty loud!

Hope that helps!!
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4th December 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECM View Post
It's a personal preference as to what you will like, don't listen to others in what they feel is better because that's a personal opinion. When it comes to monitors only you can know what will be best for you, there is no one monitor better than the rest.

Regarding the Adams, if your having limitations with the S1X you need to look at the S2X, the S1X is a great monitor considering it's size but the S2X don't have the limitations, goes deep down low and goes very loud with clean mid range (And stays clean with high SPL if needed) and then the S3X, S4X, but depends on budget. The Adam tweeters are also very personal, some people find them to have the best detail / openness, others don't like them, as said it's very personal.
Totally agree! The low and low mids on the S2Xs are luscious! I tend to really like the tweeters on my S2Xs. I never felt like they were harsh at all! If you've ever used "Guitar Center quality" monitors, then you know what a harsh top is is all about. The Adam S2X is not harsh at all compared to those... In fact, I really enjoy the crisp detail!
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4th December 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anghello View Post
Thanks for your post. I agree that S1X sound is changing every day.. before it was sort of mellow.. now it articulates better. However low-mid are not burned-in yet. I should wait to have finally understand if I like them or no.

One technician friend from Adam audio told me that he likes S2X the most (more then S1x and S3x). Interesting. I definitely know that he knows what he is talking about. It seems that S2X is best two way speaker Adam ever made. And bigger brothers are bigger in power to handle bigger rooms - thats it.

I am actually thinking about S2X because Adam suit me well. But S1X are not burned yet so have to wait a few days before decision. Would cheek out Eve audio

Opals / Adam S2X / Eve SC208 / PSI 25 / Rock

Any experience post would be very appreciated.

Opals seems to be overpowered for me. I can work with S1X but need extra db to have reserve at 70db. Eve is very interesting alternative with great pricing. PSI is swiss precision and well build monitor. And rock seems to be very great but limited for space.
Very interesting quote form your friend at Adam about the S2Xs being his favorite! I can't tell you how these monitors totally blew me away. They were definitely out of the budget for me, but they were so far out in front in a league of their own, that I decided to go the extra mile and get them anyway! Hands down best investment (along with my GIK treated room) I've ever made in my studio!
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4th December 2012
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Originally Posted by Soulicious View Post
Hope that helps!!
Helps! A lot! I really appreciate what you wrote. Experience, emotions etc. Really thank you.

I know Eggs can sound superb and Rock translates great.. But both of them are new products with non-set-up manufacturing precision. This is what it is. I build my own top performance converter which outperform any benchmark, lynx etc. in terms of DA and suits mastering AD as good as Forssell. But manufacturing process is something very risky and expansive. Even if you have prototype.. there are many compromises should be done before serial. I believe Adam-audio had these problems as Eve/Rock now. But they fixed many issues and invented new technological processes to cut the price and add extra quality. Maybe box is not that fancy but monitor should do one thing - monitor.

I am definitely on S2X over Eggs, Neumanns and Twins. Rocks seems to be limited for mid-range. And I do need at least 2m.

Only competitor is Rock / Opal / PSI for me now.

If you have any experience with them, would be very pleased if you share. However I -feel- that all the time I return to S2X somehow.. I actually loved mines A7 (used them for more then 5 years).

God bless!
Anghello
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4th December 2012
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Technician guy from Adam factory told me that it takes around 30 hours to burn-in. Mine are around 10 yet.
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4th December 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anghello View Post
Which one?

Heard people say Twins lies a bit. Eggs are hi-fi and KH 120 are no brainer for its price but still common sounding as Munro.

RL 906 is a different dimension but I don't like subs.. Maybe those would be enough?

The ME Geithain RL906 was reviewed in the November issue of Sound On Sound.

The PDF of the review is HERE.

It makes very interesting reading.
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4th December 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Willett View Post
The ME Geithain RL906 was reviewed in the November issue of Sound On Sound.

The PDF of the review is HERE.

It makes very interesting reading.
Thank you John

How are you satisfied with RL 906?
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5th December 2012
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Thank you John

How are you satisfied with RL 906?
I love them - I have compared them with the big RL901 and they sound the same except for the greater bass extension on the larger units.

In fact, Imaging seemed to be slightly better.

But, since I bought mine, I have taken over the UK distributorship for Geithain; so I ought to refrain from personal comments as they would be seen as biased.

So, I will leave it to the review to speak as it is a very fair review.

If you are in the Czech Republic, why not give Olaf August at Geithain a ring and see if you can pop over to the factory and have a listen in their listening room - Geithain is not very far from the Czech border (fine if you are north of Praha, longer if you are further south, of course).
#77
6th December 2012
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I would think that the Geithain monitors would incur a bit of Phase Modulation from the point source drivers, but only at high volumes. There might be a reflection from the larger driver, and if the excursion is large, then the delay present would influence the presentation of the upper drivers. This is not really a bad thing, but coloration in this regard could be a detriment to mastering applications.

On the flip side, Geithain monitors look top notch and I would love to have a pair if I could afford them
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6th December 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Willett View Post
I love them - I have compared them with the big RL901 and they sound the same except for the greater bass extension on the larger units.

In fact, Imaging seemed to be slightly better.

But, since I bought mine, I have taken over the UK distributorship for Geithain; so I ought to refrain from personal comments as they would be seen as biased.

So, I will leave it to the review to speak as it is a very fair review.

If you are in the Czech Republic, why not give Olaf August at Geithain a ring and see if you can pop over to the factory and have a listen in their listening room - Geithain is not very far from the Czech border (fine if you are north of Praha, longer if you are further south, of course).
You are very right I would consider about this also. People say all RLs sound very close.
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6th December 2012
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Originally Posted by OpusOfTrolls View Post
I would think that the Geithain monitors would incur a bit of Phase Modulation from the point source drivers, but only at high volumes. There might be a reflection from the larger driver, and if the excursion is large, then the delay present would influence the presentation of the upper drivers. This is not really a bad thing, but coloration in this regard could be a detriment to mastering applications.

On the flip side, Geithain monitors look top notch and I would love to have a pair if I could afford them
Thank you. I noticed that masters from Geithains are not that great as I expected. I listened to two studios here with 901 and 940 and didn't like the output at all. And these guys are using only exclusive gear.

S1X translates fabulous! I listened to masters done and they are truly stunning!!! No surprises and more.. only the good things left It put a smile on my face. However I don't count on monitors too much.
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7th December 2012
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Hello Anghello, are you considering to get a sub for more bass extension with the s1x instead of a new pair of monitors, you look very satisfied with them.
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7th December 2012
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Originally Posted by EL_HERALDO View Post
Hello Anghello, are you considering to get a sub for more bass extension with the s1x instead of a new pair of monitors, you look very satisfied with them.
quite possible But I am real sub-non-lover But it seems as great alternative here.

I'm still thinking S1X are getting louder and powerful every day. Mine are about 10 hours burn-in now (not much, should be at least 20).

Few people from here still recommends Rocks, they are not that power-limited in mid-range - that one know ME said. Good ME are using them now.

S1X / S2X / Rock / PSI 17 / Opals
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7th December 2012
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Guys. Must say. I am in the studio yet and let them play for couple of hours.. tweeter is much more balanced and bass is great. Ok, its not 20-30sub but they goes deeper then A7. Very balanced sound and performance. Really surprised about them.
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7th December 2012
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Originally Posted by EL_HERALDO View Post
True, monitors are like tastes. But when I tried s1x they were not for me, they remember me hs80m but very superior in all ways, the sounded boxy and hyped in the high end (but they weren't burned in).
Exactly. But sound did change a lot. It not +10%, it's +200% more. The only issue with S1X i how low they go at 80db.. when sub-fq dance music starts to bump a lot they distorts. But at 40-60db its perfect. I should give them more time and see if I really like them.
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8th December 2012
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Hello Anghello, are you considering to get a sub for more bass extension with the s1x instead of a new pair of monitors, you look very satisfied with them.
There are still Opals and Rocks in my mind. Do you think Opals has better definition then SX you've tried? Bit afraid of that heavy bass and precision is No.1 for me. Can you locate Opals by you ear when mixing?

same question about rocks.

Would be very helpful. Bit confused now. It seems S1X are ok to do the job. But want to be sure I picked up the best speaker.
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8th December 2012
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Are you looking for a mixing speaker only? Or a tracking and mixing speaker?

If a mixing speaker .... what is your room size and degree of trapping, etc.?
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8th December 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucey View Post
Are you looking for a mixing speaker only? Or a tracking and mixing speaker?

If a mixing speaker .... what is your room size and degree of trapping, etc.?
I need near-field mastering speaker. I don't use speakers for tracking that much. Mix+master.

Need maximum precision and honesty.

32,7m2 room /wood / sand / glass / vicoustic (8traps, 50 panels) / two big ceiling basf panes (rounded) / atypical room (a lot o 30-45° angels / 2,5-3m ceiling / couch / controlled floor resonances / mramour stands (50kg) + massive wood table / dry/wet / diffusers / book shelf.
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8th December 2012
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S2X vs. Rock mk2 vs. Opal


50-60db mixing level, 60-70db mastering level. No need in sub fq. 2m distance in well threated room.
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8th December 2012
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Anyone? Focal twins?
-1 for Twins

Slow bass response and stop time when compared to the NS10. It also sounds hyped, not honest.

Cloudy mids when compared to ATC speakers, maybe caused by the low end harmonics caused by the port which indirectly causes the woofers to have more excursion.

They make piercing, harsh and annoying high frequency sounds sound acceptable.

Very forgiving monitors and bad precision tools for pro studio use, but they sound great as a center speaker for home cinema or for leisure music listening.

We tried to clog the ports and the sound of the twins became more precise and the mids cleared up a bit, it is very curious.

If you are a producer that need forgiving speakers then the Twins are good but if you are a mixing or mastering professional who wants to have the most detailed and revealing speakers for the price, this speaker is not for you.

I have many friends who believed the hype in 2009 and were charmed by the good looks of the Twins, but after months of working with them they changed speakers.


Be scared of ported speakers, it is a flawed design feature in the first place.
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8th December 2012
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Speaker must perform low-mid/hi-mid range very precisely and accurate. While top end should be very analyzing and flat. No gimmiks. No speaker location.
Good to find that some people know what they are talking about it is very refreshing.

I read so many completely ignorant posts on this forum about monitors that is quite shocking.

Kudos anghello
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9th December 2012
Old 9th December 2012
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Adam P22, A7X, S1X, S2X, S3X, Dynaudio 6A

After hearing a friend's Adam P22's I was so blown away I began trying out Adams stuff. First was the A7X which I found to be a great tracking speaker but super-average for mixing/mastering. I didn't like the A7X and the P22s I found to sound way better. I then sold off the A7Xs and got some S1Xs. These turned out to be good and average for me. The good was the clarity was spectacular and I could hear things I never heard before. The bad was the bottom end response was not so good in my large room. Subsequently, I have been thinking that the S2X with the 7" woofer would be the good speaker for my room so I ordered a pair from Studio Ekonomik in Montreal. Adam, however, was out of stock on the S2Xs so in the meantime I was sent some S3XVs to use until the S2Xs were ready. The verdict? In my room I don't particularly care for the S3XVs but that is likely due to having to place them only 3 and half apart. I suspect that if I could place them back from the listening position and wider they would sound great. I am still thinking the S2X is going to be a killer speaker in my room. I have a Sub 8 as well but am thinking of trading up to a Sub 10 which might be a better match for the 7 inch in the S2X. Relative to each other in my room, I would rate P22s the best, followed by the S1X (with sub, you will need it), followed by the S3XV followed by the A7X. I am very surprised at how popular the A7X is given I honestly didn't think they were a dramatic step up from my Yorkville YSM-1P which I could probably buy now for $300. Better, YES, but not 6X the price better. I also tried some Dynaudio 6As but I pretty much preferred the whole Adams line to the Dynaudio speakers.
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