Login / Register
 
Unity Rock vs. Egg vs. S1X vs. Twins vs. ME Geithain RL 906 vs. KH 120
New Reply
Subscribe
Anghello
Thread Starter
#31
30th November 2012
Old 30th November 2012
  #31
Lives for gear
 
Anghello's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2010
Location: CZECH REP.

Thread Starter
Anghello is offline
Anghello
Thread Starter
#32
30th November 2012
Old 30th November 2012
  #32
Lives for gear
 
Anghello's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2010
Location: CZECH REP.

Thread Starter
Anghello is offline
Correction. Definitely decided not to get RL 940. Great reference monitor.. but mix translation is not that good IMHO. Don't like mixes done with Geithains.

So now its

KS 55 / KS 88 / KH O300 / S2X / Opal / Unity Rock

I don't like subs.. I need clear mid range with phenomenal translation. No coloration of the speaker - in your face/can't locate speaker sound. And realism. I don't like subs. I like S1X - great speaker, but quite limited above 60db.. I need clear sound at 70-80db to master on 50db. Honest 40hz are more then enough for me. Low-Mid, High-Mid and Top is the key. I love flat reference (no color of the speaker).

Room is 32m2


Thank you guys for helping me.
__________________
Andrey Bobrov
Anghello
Thread Starter
#33
30th November 2012
Old 30th November 2012
  #33
Lives for gear
 
Anghello's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2010
Location: CZECH REP.

Thread Starter
Anghello is offline
S1X are stunning. Very fast membranes.. there is very smooth and full top end. Very pronaunced.

After mastering 8 songs and two sessions (+3 songs).. the best thing is.. after burn-in.. you are "ready to go".. had to fix eq a bit.. but only 2 db. Set and go speaker. No need to get fammiliar with it. Mixing results are very satisfying. I have enough power to handle mix/master process in my room. Nice.

Very wide stereo.. when its really left.. a feel it's almost -45°.. strange. The bottom became more powerful every time I run them. Today I heard things near 45hz and less.. strange. Very small membrane to reproduce this stuff. They reproduce things JBL 4425 with 12" woofer couldn't.

Somehow they sound "sweet" in the highest top end.. I mean they are pleasant to listen to but I didn't figure out how much truth is in there.. Funny.. I think it can be considered as full range speaker for small rooms. Interesting. Revolutionary. I feel those 25 years of innovation. Translation is great. But woofer has the same air problem as with A7s and bigger SX brothers. I think they should be run with 2x sub8 at 85hz cut. then it gonna shake any room big time.. however mastering is not about that at all.
Anghello
Thread Starter
#34
30th November 2012
Old 30th November 2012
  #34
Lives for gear
 
Anghello's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2010
Location: CZECH REP.

Thread Starter
Anghello is offline
Heard bad review on even top line of the KS speaker. Tweeter is not that fast as expected. Good lows.. but problems with crossover.. anyone?
#35
30th November 2012
Old 30th November 2012
  #35
Lives for gear
 
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,091

OpusOfTrolls is offline
It's sounding like you want a reference monitor with a ribbon tweeter and dedicated mid driver. You will be hard pressed to find this in a small cabinet. I suggest you start thinking bigger.
Quote
1
#36
1st December 2012
Old 1st December 2012
  #36
Gear addict
 
EL_HERALDO's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Location: SPAIN
Posts: 478

EL_HERALDO is online now
Best of all of them are the unity audio, then the opals (opals are half the price but their accuracy is like 90% of the unity audo).
__________________
____________________________________________
"YOU MAKE MOVIES, I MAKE THE DOCUMENTARIES"
#37
1st December 2012
Old 1st December 2012
  #37
Lives for gear
 
Macaroni's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2003
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 747

Macaroni is offline
Quote:
Heard bad review on even top line of the KS speaker. Tweeter is not that fast as expected. Good lows.. but problems with crossover.. anyone?
Do you have a link for that?
Anghello
Thread Starter
#38
1st December 2012
Old 1st December 2012
  #38
Lives for gear
 
Anghello's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2010
Location: CZECH REP.

Thread Starter
Anghello is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macaroni View Post
Do you have a link for that?
I lost it:( However after my own re-braining I think this guy was used to genelecs or so.. I means his preference expected warm mid range. Not crispy-hot but blurred with extended bumb in the 80hz. Don't eat it. Real flat monitoring with precise phase and minimum THD is very different then any hifi or vintage type speaker. There is a lot this kinda posts on gs.. not everyone here is professional.

However I found very interesting info in Russian forums. Guys says that 55 fantastically replaced Adam S2.5. That 88 was biting a bit in 8k ara and 55 does not.. It seems that 88 are more aggressive sounding (to me it's better) and low's was not that low as expected (to me it's better again). I think 55 gives a little compromise in that 8k.. but guys says 88 has a little bumb. However one very BIG mastering guy in Russia was quite impressed by KS (don't know which one he tested on Namm russia in KS Digital stand).. He told that he can work on them easily. The guy replaced S2.5 is very happy with C55.

S1X are very precise, great and translates well. There is a little marketing warmth above 12khz and tweeters are sounding less aggressive then previous model (cold-biting) and are very SMOOTH (i mean really putted together as cream) and "caramel" souding. Maybe its definition I didn't figure out yet. I think they are bass heavy enough to handle any 20m2 room if placed right. Muddy mid-range disappeared. It seems they had to burn-in right. But IMO they has their own color. To me color means distortion. They are more market oriented. People who started with pro audio would appreciate them.. tone is great, translation is great, mix errors/distortions are very audible, it is pro tool.

I am between C88 / PSI 17 / S2X

Can anyone review Unity Rock please in any comparison?
#39
1st December 2012
Old 1st December 2012
  #39
Lives for gear
 
Macaroni's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2003
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 747

Macaroni is offline
Good research. Thanks for that.

Did you watch the videos on the KS site of various users of KS monitors and how they compared to what they were using? Watch the one with the Japanese guy in the green shirt (on the left). He describes a number of Los Angeles installations where well known monitors were replaced by KS monitors.
__________________
Ron...
Anghello
Thread Starter
#40
1st December 2012
Old 1st December 2012
  #40
Lives for gear
 
Anghello's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2010
Location: CZECH REP.

Thread Starter
Anghello is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by EL_HERALDO View Post
Best of all of them are the unity audio, then the opals (opals are half the price but their accuracy is like 90% of the unity audio).
Thank you very much. Can rocks suite mid-field please? I think I would move away from SX.. sounds muddy to me. I need brutal precision in all spectrum.

Rock vs. PSI ? Compared? Please.
Anghello
Thread Starter
#41
1st December 2012
Old 1st December 2012
  #41
Lives for gear
 
Anghello's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2010
Location: CZECH REP.

Thread Starter
Anghello is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macaroni View Post
Good research. Thanks for that.

Did you watch the videos on the KS site of various users of KS monitors and how they compared to what they were using? Watch the one with the Japanese guy in the green shirt (on the left). He describes a number of Los Angeles installations where well known monitors were replaced by KS monitors.
yeah.. Henry Strange.. guy in LA was posting some here.. find "henry strange" here.. yeah. But he is also involved with KS. But I do trust him in what he is saying. I think there is a reason why many modern studios went for KS.

I am very glad that someone post info about Unity Rock here. I know very respected mastering engineer praised on them hard. He got Geithain 901K and top mastering gear, build building for this purpose etc.
Anghello
Thread Starter
#42
1st December 2012
Old 1st December 2012
  #42
Lives for gear
 
Anghello's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2010
Location: CZECH REP.

Thread Starter
Anghello is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by OpusOfTrolls View Post
It's sounding like you want a reference monitor with a ribbon tweeter and dedicated mid driver. You will be hard pressed to find this in a small cabinet. I suggest you start thinking bigger.
You are right. If Rock can handle mid-low as three way speaker like KS 88 and high-end like PSI.. no brainer then
Anghello
Thread Starter
#43
1st December 2012
Old 1st December 2012
  #43
Lives for gear
 
Anghello's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2010
Location: CZECH REP.

Thread Starter
Anghello is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by EL_HERALDO View Post
Best of all of them are the unity audio, then the opals (opals are half the price but their accuracy is like 90% of the unity audo).
PS: did you heard KS 88? Can you compare Rocks with new SX series and what about PSI?

PSS: sorry
Anghello
Thread Starter
#44
1st December 2012
Old 1st December 2012
  #44
Lives for gear
 
Anghello's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2010
Location: CZECH REP.

Thread Starter
Anghello is offline
S1X respond in my room approx. 1,7m. Tweeter gain +4db.

I hear things under 50hz well. It doesn't play 20-25hz.. but 40 are audible.

I hope creamy top-end sound is matter of burn-in. Low-mid articulates much better then yesterday. Guitar starts to pronounce in a nice-full way.

cca 1,87-2m distance.
Attached Thumbnails
Unity Rock vs. Egg vs. S1X vs. Twins vs. ME Geithain RL 906 vs. KH 120-s1x-arc.jpg  
Anghello
Thread Starter
#45
2nd December 2012
Old 2nd December 2012
  #45
Lives for gear
 
Anghello's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2010
Location: CZECH REP.

Thread Starter
Anghello is offline
Little fail while researching Rocks
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Untitled.jpg (100.2 KB, 1190 views)
Anghello
Thread Starter
#46
2nd December 2012
Old 2nd December 2012
  #46
Lives for gear
 
Anghello's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2010
Location: CZECH REP.

Thread Starter
Anghello is offline
In my research:

PSI A215-M are much better then Adam S3X-H. Should be more precise and accurate. S3X-H are not as good for mastering purpose some say.

However A215-M are to technical and one guy swept back to KH O410. IMO SX is much better then KH. This means we are lost in opinions here.

KS 88 should be as good as S4A but tiny limited in pressure. Which is woohoo!

SX series seems to be more commercial then biting and aggressive sounding speaker before. S1X translation is good, pro. But not that good as I used to with old. I prefer previous Adams. New ones seems to be more natural/wide and previous are analyzing/narrow. But new SX has their own benefits IMHO. Still much better then any genelec, mackie.. etc. S1X placed correctly sounds full and goes pretty loud.
Anghello
Thread Starter
#47
2nd December 2012
Old 2nd December 2012
  #47
Lives for gear
 
Anghello's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2010
Location: CZECH REP.

Thread Starter
Anghello is offline
#48
2nd December 2012
Old 2nd December 2012
  #48
Lives for gear
 
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,091

OpusOfTrolls is offline
The A215's look decent for mastering, but without a sub might not have enough impact, and with a sub a generous phase delay.
Anghello
Thread Starter
#49
2nd December 2012
Old 2nd December 2012
  #49
Lives for gear
 
Anghello's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2010
Location: CZECH REP.

Thread Starter
Anghello is offline
Need more info about Unity Rock vs. PSI

I am between

Rock / PSI 17 / PSI 25

Please.
Anghello
Thread Starter
#50
2nd December 2012
Old 2nd December 2012
  #50
Lives for gear
 
Anghello's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2010
Location: CZECH REP.

Thread Starter
Anghello is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by OpusOfTrolls View Post
The A215's look decent for mastering, but would need a sub.
No problem with sub. Its quite easy to set only for 40-45hz. Speaker must perform low-mid/hi-mid range very precisely and accurate. While top end should be very analyzing and flat. No gimmiks. No speaker location.

Thanks for you post

Any experience with A215?
#51
2nd December 2012
Old 2nd December 2012
  #51
Lives for gear
 
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,091

OpusOfTrolls is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anghello View Post
No problem with sub. Its quite easy to set only for 40-45hz. Speaker must perform low-mid/hi-mid range very precisely and accurate. While top end should be very analyzing and flat. No gimmiks. No speaker location.

Thanks for you post

Any experience with A215?
Nope, just looking at them on their website. I am fond of freestanding speakers in general.

If you only needed a sub for such limited range, you could use a bandpass cabinet. But for mastering I would prefer a sealed cabinet, even if it is old school, just because I like tight controlled lows. The kind of music really matters.
Anghello
Thread Starter
#52
2nd December 2012
Old 2nd December 2012
  #52
Lives for gear
 
Anghello's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2010
Location: CZECH REP.

Thread Starter
Anghello is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by OpusOfTrolls View Post
Nope, just looking at them on their website. I am fond of freestanding speakers in general.

If you only needed a sub for such limited range, you could use a bandpass cabinet. But for mastering I would prefer a sealed cabinet, even if it is old school, just because I like tight controlled lows. The kind of music really matters.
Thank you for your post.

Funny thing I don't like sub frequencies. I did more than thousand hip-hop/rap/pop/trip-hop/trance/ambient/trip-hop/IDM/dub-step etc. tracks and NEVER needed a sub for that !!

I think when bottom is pushed hard then its not sounding nice at all. Plus it makes 2-way speaker suffer in mid-range. I also rarely use eq above 15Kz.. most of the time its just a little tube-attitude to give some crispy tone to the track. I consider sub frequencies as not musical.. same is with the tones above 16-17khz, Sub can give a gentle base line accompaniment and makes song sound fuller.. however its a "shocks" to our body. I used Adam sub 12 a long time, sold it - not necessary. I thought yes.. but it isn't. It's must have for movies etc.. but music starts from 35hz (lowest base guitar) and ends around 12khz (cymbal/bell) to me. I did measured my hearing skills and I do hear above 17,5khz (normally) and 18,2khz (on "fresh").. while hardly hear base tone under 45hz.

Trick of the mastering is made it sound in such a full way everywhere. I mean on ipod, in the club, on audiophile set-up, telephone.. everywhere. Who is going to listen to the sub-based music on notebook? But you can make it sound much fuller in the great audio system in the car and even on ipod by managing and understanding what you really are listening to.

The only real problem in mastering speaker is coloration. Speaker should not be located by your ear at any frequency while translation of the music must be very honest and balanced. This is what it is.
Anghello
Thread Starter
#53
2nd December 2012
Old 2nd December 2012
  #53
Lives for gear
 
Anghello's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2010
Location: CZECH REP.

Thread Starter
Anghello is offline
PS: S1X starts to perform very full and outstanding!!! Very articulate top-end. Instruments articulation is very very good! FAST!

The mellow tone I described before was a matter of burn-in. I did little eq set-up in my room and they started to monitor a very accurate picture of music. I took me a while to manage acoustics and it was really about 20cm issue in some cases.. but now it performs really good.
#54
3rd December 2012
Old 3rd December 2012
  #54
Lives for gear
 
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,091

OpusOfTrolls is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anghello View Post
Thank you for your post.

Funny thing I don't like sub frequencies. I did more than thousand hip-hop/rap/pop/trip-hop/trance/ambient/trip-hop/IDM/dub-step etc. tracks and NEVER needed a sub for that !!

I think when bottom is pushed hard then its not sounding nice at all. Plus it makes 2-way speaker suffer in mid-range. I also rarely use eq above 15Kz.. most of the time its just a little tube-attitude to give some crispy tone to the track. I consider sub frequencies as not musical.. same is with the tones above 16-17khz, Sub can give a gentle base line accompaniment and makes song sound fuller.. however its a "shocks" to our body. I used Adam sub 12 a long time, sold it - not necessary. I thought yes.. but it isn't. It's must have for movies etc.. but music starts from 35hz (lowest base guitar) and ends around 12khz (cymbal/bell) to me. I did measured my hearing skills and I do hear above 17,5khz (normally) and 18,2khz (on "fresh").. while hardly hear base tone under 45hz.

Trick of the mastering is made it sound in such a full way everywhere. I mean on ipod, in the club, on audiophile set-up, telephone.. everywhere. Who is going to listen to the sub-based music on notebook? But you can make it sound much fuller in the great audio system in the car and even on ipod by managing and understanding what you really are listening to.

The only real problem in mastering speaker is coloration. Speaker should not be located by your ear at any frequency while translation of the music must be very honest and balanced. This is what it is.
You have good points. Having a sub for mastering would be a good option to hear the effect of large bass tones competing with the music. But if I were mastering, I would like to use one turned down low, just to let the woofers breathe. There is 3 levels of using a sub: Off, Full, and Low. Depending on what your intended audience uses to listen, sub may or may not be the best option.

Sealed sub cabinets are usually very colored, but that is the charm of them.
#55
3rd December 2012
Old 3rd December 2012
  #55
Gear addict
 
EL_HERALDO's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Location: SPAIN
Posts: 478

EL_HERALDO is online now
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anghello View Post
Thank you very much. Can rocks suite mid-field please? I think I would move away from SX.. sounds muddy to me. I need brutal precision in all spectrum.

Rock vs. PSI ? Compared? Please.
I think Adams Sx series are not suited for mastering, and s1x seems to have a very poor response in your room even with the arc2 (when I tried them in my room come down to 35hz with arc2 and almost no ceilings). Rocks have a very linear response but not to be used as midfields because they are closed design (not ported) and bass come down very quickly with the distance. KS are not in my taste. Worked in a studio with Opals and they are probably the more powerful and truthful monitors I've worked with, suitable for midfields (neverending power) and in that studio they come linear to 22hz with ARC2.
Quote
1
#56
3rd December 2012
Old 3rd December 2012
  #56
Gear addict
 
EL_HERALDO's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Location: SPAIN
Posts: 478

EL_HERALDO is online now
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anghello View Post
PS: S1X starts to perform very full and outstanding!!! Very articulate top-end. Instruments articulation is very very good! FAST!

The mellow tone I described before was a matter of burn-in. I did little eq set-up in my room and they started to monitor a very accurate picture of music. I took me a while to manage acoustics and it was really about 20cm issue in some cases.. but now it performs really good.
People say they have around 150-200hours burning time !!!
Anghello
Thread Starter
#57
3rd December 2012
Old 3rd December 2012
  #57
Lives for gear
 
Anghello's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2010
Location: CZECH REP.

Thread Starter
Anghello is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by EL_HERALDO View Post
People say they have around 150-200hours burning time !!!
It seems to be true They change a tonality and character every time I use it.
Anghello
Thread Starter
#58
3rd December 2012
Old 3rd December 2012
  #58
Lives for gear
 
Anghello's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2010
Location: CZECH REP.

Thread Starter
Anghello is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by OpusOfTrolls View Post
You have good points. Having a sub for mastering would be a good option to hear the effect of large bass tones competing with the music. But if I were mastering, I would like to use one turned down low, just to let the woofers breathe. There is 3 levels of using a sub: Off, Full, and Low. Depending on what your intended audience uses to listen, sub may or may not be the best option.

Sealed sub cabinets are usually very colored, but that is the charm of them.
I fired Adam Sub12 few times already

Thanks, agree with you.

Kids like sub-bass and consider as good quality if there is a lot of them at highest possible level. But I want to make listener listen to the song not to the kick. If I use sub I use it "low". Wu-tang bass trend is gone.. no one is surprised by digital sub expect dup-step and hyphy music - there is one rule.. fatter bass-better, in fact you don't even need to control it Maybe it was shocking 17 years before but then people been used to cassettes. In this particular time audience start to consider that music became sh.tty.. because sub frequencies are not pleasant at all to our psychology. Older people always turn the volume down to the point when sub is not shaking too much. You can cut, you can level down. I use baxandall eq with combination of analog multiband eq to fix low-end, and always oriented on 50hz (kicks) 80hz (base) 100hz warmth (jazzy warmth or trance cold) and thats all low-end. More important is how you control phase cancellations and dynamics - there you need monitors. This is the reason why it's extremely important important to hear smoothly 40-120hz. As soon as we put sub in the place it changes the game a lot. Bass "ROUDING" and "Bouncing" affects the low end by gain of 60 and nulls 80hz. Much bigger problem to control the sound. Especially in the rooms where usual bass trap is used (rockwool, vicoustic etc.). You have to use glass, stone, grit placed right or re-build the dimensions of the room. Plus sub makes you feel that there is enough of base here (even if low) while track came out cutted. Why not to use some heavy base headphones for test this like sony's thousands something/ HD800 or koss porta pro etc and simply not being affected by sub while master? For example.

I consider 30hz as a lowest point what I need from speaker. But there is a huge difference between old school and new school speakers and type of sound we hear from them. Very different even in monitoring.
Anghello
Thread Starter
#59
3rd December 2012
Old 3rd December 2012
  #59
Lives for gear
 
Anghello's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2010
Location: CZECH REP.

Thread Starter
Anghello is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by EL_HERALDO View Post
I think Adams Sx series are not suited for mastering, and s1x seems to have a very poor response in your room even with the arc2 (when I tried them in my room come down to 35hz with arc2 and almost no ceilings). Rocks have a very linear response but not to be used as midfields because they are closed design (not ported) and bass come down very quickly with the distance. KS are not in my taste. Worked in a studio with Opals and they are probably the more powerful and truthful monitors I've worked with, suitable for midfields (never ending power) and in that studio they come linear to 22hz with ARC2.
this is the most useful post I've found here. Thank you !!!

I agree that S1X are limited. In the bad way. As soon you go above 60-70db there are speaker-compression problems. We both know we need very powerful dynamics.

Which one KS you've tested? I consider only 55 or 88 because heard they sound the same as Opals. Got arc.

Thanks about rock post. I need monitor that would work in 1,8m now and 2,5-3m in the future.

Considering opals / ks 88 / psi 25 / S2X

just my thoughts. Please, need your recommendation
#60
3rd December 2012
Old 3rd December 2012
  #60
Gear addict
 
EL_HERALDO's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Location: SPAIN
Posts: 478

EL_HERALDO is online now
I've tested 88, I think they are too slow on transients and a little bit shy in the mid range. Another thing, I will recommend you to buy ARC2 because is a very very veeeeeryyy BIG improvement over the first edition.
New Reply Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook  Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter  Submit Thread to LinkedIn LinkedIn  Submit Thread to Google+ Google+ 
 
Topic:
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
joaquin / Remote Possibilities in Acoustic Music & Location Recording
29
Seek / Remote Possibilities in Acoustic Music & Location Recording
14
flipmodea / High end
10

Forum Jump

SEO by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.