Lavry 44 A and D saturation as last comression...

[Switchcraft]

I have been doing quick mixes of some of my tracks with some outboard on the twobuss... I am running out to a C2 and then to a Fatso and that goes right into the lavry/DAW. I found that when I push the inputs of the Lavry with the output gain of the FATSO that I can go really strong on the AD before I get clipping. No matter how ard I push it I still do not get levels showing clipping on my Logic master fader/// basically the Analog sat and Digital sat. seems to be protecting from digital clipping. So my master track in Logic is pushed all the way to the top without it hitting/clipping 0.0.

Is anyone else using the lavry like this as an end of the chain limiter so to speak? I find it is giving me great results, but my mastering skills are not that great.

Anyone using Lavry ADs as quasi limiters?

[Ged Leitch]

SSShhhhhh...!!!


Dont tell anyone!

[mahasandi]

I f its giving you what you think are 'great results'

be happy.


FWIW the digital saturation is not preventing clipping the AD.
It is a digital algorythm,thus after AD.
Dan mentioned that it was loosely modeled on tape behavior,
in that, it raises the signal 6db and as the signal approaches full scale those extra
6 db get progessively less able to transient peak the closer they approach 0db,
sort of like some aspects of tape saturation.

That said i don't clip AD's as that is not how digital is designed to be used;
-12dbfs is equivelent to 0dbu 1.23 vlts i think.
so on analog i don't record at +12 on peaks the idea is to use the optimal headroom
for the format.

Dan Lavry has said that you lose stereo width and gain distortion when you clip full scale odbfs on digital systems period.

but he has designed his convertors in there analog stage to handle peaks
more kindly especially with the gold series but also with blue, you can ask him at
at lavry engineering forum exactly what he means yourself if its helpful.

I love the Blue's they are fantastic.
But i don't participate in the loudness wars so i see no reason to use AD's like that
but i'd love to hear more about how it works for you as each to their own and after all again I f its giving you what you think are 'great results'

be happy.

p.s. your saying its not clipping no matter how hard you push your levels ?

"I can go really strong on the AD before I get clipping." really strong?

and "No matter how ard I push it I still do not get levels showing clipping on my Logic master fader//"

those statements are at odds at bit .
So your using Logic's fader as your measure?I wonder if the logic meter is telling you the whole story? DAWs are notoriusly inadequate /inaccurate i'am curious, also
because i can push levels into the lavry with analog sat on and it lights up the over light regularly
as the voltage increases?
and yet your happy so if its clipping you don't care which is cool

other then it causing trouble(errors jitter) on cheap cd players that people might play it on

nicholas

[Darius van H]

How does it sound?

[Switchcraft]

Thanks for the comments! When I said the Lavry was clipping, I ment the meeters

were showing 0db on the lavry. Meaning the last LED was firing up, ... a touch of

supposed clipping. Obviously, I can make it break up if i push the output to 10.5 on

the fatso, but that is definately what I do not want.



I am also not trying to get into a loudness war, I am just experimenting with my equipment and was surprised by how well the lavry responed to such strong levels...

"I can go really strong on the AD before I get clipping." ... I should have added audible clipping.. ie breaking up.

"No matter how hard I push it, I still do not get levels to show clipping on my Logic master fader//" It sounds like compression of some sort starts to kik in... I dont know though.

This previous statement was trying to explain that even if I did get audible clips/distortion on input, the levels still show as sub 0.0, i.e. no red-lining in Logic...

After reading your statements and thinking about that more, I realized that this makes sense... an AD converter patched into a master fader cannot produce information for a meter to read that is greater than sub 0.0. So the Logic meter will alway be below red (0.0) even if it is distorted to all hell.

I guess I was too used to using plugs on a master fader, which are capable of redlining/clipping...

I have to admit that I am very new to puting outboard processing on the master fader of Logic or any app. I am using the IO plug to patch my chain on a mix before I bounce.

I find that once I get to 0.0 on the Lavry input LEDs that I still have about 1 or 1.5 DB of room on my master fader LED in Logic. So, when I push my fatso output to fill that space (probably not advised, but only for fun ofcourse) I can add more signal (1.0/1.5dB) to the input that the lavry already shows at 0.0 and I do NOT get distortion. its amazing.

[MASSIVE Master]

I use the A-Sat pretty regularly to "nip" at a few transients, but not the D-Sat. Never found a reason for it.

[FaTT Dust]

This scenario sounds very much like a soft clip, which I experience, when I use the TC Poco MD3. It does the same, it gives you the clip light which shows the soft clip now engaged, but no audible distortion at all, and you could push it further if need be and still no distortion. Maybe, some chronic saturation symtoms, but no real distortion of audio..

Could be a soft clipper in there? Yes, No?..

Thanks lads..

[bob katz]

Originally Posted by Switchcraft

Thanks for the comments! When I said the Lavry was clipping, I ment the meeters

were showing 0db on the lavry. Meaning the last LED was firing up, ... a touch of

supposed clipping.

While the "blindfolds on and listen" approach has some merit, I suggest quantifying your pollution so you know exactly how far you are pushing. I've learned (in another post) that pushing my Cranesong A/D more than 1 dB is a recipe for disaster, the dynamics do suffer and the edge comes in fast enough to say "STOP". I have a calibrated analog attenuator in that portion of the chain and I know EXACTLY the peak level going into it and out of it. Anything to make your job easier. How far is your A/D going over? You can tell if you calibrate the analog chain to unity gain and know how much additional gain you are applying.

[Switchcraft]

Since the Lavry does not have output meters, what would be the best way to calibrate the input? Would i just ouput some pink or white noise at 0db out of my lavry and route it right back in to mmy lavry and adjust the inputs to zero?

excuse the ignorance... Will I need an RTA?
Thanks again.

[MASSIVE Master]

You can always make the DA relate to the AD... Even if they're way off from L-to-R. You'd need to calibrate one of them to an external unit. Then, you can "loop" them to calibrate the other.

[bob katz]

Originally Posted by Switchcraft

Since the Lavry does not have output meters, what would be the best way to calibrate the input? Would i just ouput some pink or white noise at 0db out of my lavry and route it right back in to mmy lavry and adjust the inputs to zero?

excuse the ignorance... Will I need an RTA?
Thanks again.

A simple external analog voltmeter would do the trick. Preferably an "audio-rated" voltmeter that is flat at least from 20-20K and measures in decibels. But in a pinch a 1 kHz test tone at -20 dBFS generated in your DAW and a cheap standard voltmeter will do "acceptably". But ideally you want to know where each piece of gear clips, which you can do by listening....

BK