REVERB IN MASTERING

[cerberus]

Originally Posted by bob katz

especially in-the-box mixes made by inexperienced engineers working in project studios."

<edit>
jeff dinces

[lucey]

almost never

compression brings up verbs ...

only a VERY dry mix would need some verb added all song ...

tails is more common, but even then ... almost never

[bob katz]

Originally Posted by lucey

almost never

compression brings up verbs ...

only a VERY dry mix would need some verb added all song ...

tails is more common, but even then ... almost never

No wonder I asked a very famous mastering engineer who is also known as a smasher whether he ever needed stereo depth, or width enhancement. And he said, "Never". Well, kiss my uncompressed ass.

BK

[Brad Blackwood]

I can't remember the last time I added reverb...

[lucey]

I added verb to two projects this week, both lead by my suggestion, and the clients loved it. I see this happening again with another job next week.

It's odd to be doing reverb as I almost never did before, things come in waves I guess. Maybe it's the verb. Using the Bricasti M7 ... beautiful.

Music was orchestral/sound track/ambient instrumental.

[Franz]

I have added reverb once, and that was last week...
A band brought me a mix, intended to sound like a late 50's ballad. They had been working hard to get the sound right,
using old gear and had really studied the sound of Paul Anka and stuff. But for some reason the mix was totally dry.
I added some plate verb to the whole track, and that really did the trick! But I wouldn't say this was a typical mastering situation...

[SoniA]

I put a little bit of early reflections from real ambience IR by Altiverb to my master track and it sounds more detailed, deeper and glued better.

Thanks Mr.Bob

Sonia

[Throttler]

A reverb is an option when mastering in stems and you want the mix too hot as a controlable addition to the drums track.

[cerberus]

a jedi could step in when a mix engineer has not done an adequate job; and save the day.

but two incompetent engineers are not better than one.

what is mastering?

is adding reverbs part of mastering?

ok...what is not mastering? what about creative gating and expansion with the purpose of
attenuating reverbs? what about noize reduxion? i think both might be "restoration".

in film/video post production, one may need to match ambiences of
different recordings. i think we would call that: "sweetening".

perhaps it would be helpful for the purposes of
defining "mastering" if we could all agree?

i think that whatever one is doing with a
reverb, it probably isn't "mastering".

jeff dinces

[Drlove]

Bob your experiences are priceless. Thanks for sharing.

I read your book it should be required reading for anyone interested in audio production.

Use your ears and do what's best for the song/project.

[lucey]

Originally Posted by cerberus

perhaps it would be helpful for the purposes of
defining "mastering" if we could all agree?

i think that whatever one is doing with a
reverb, it probably isn't "mastering".

jeff dinces

Whatever it takes. That's the definition.

A record with a lot of space already, from cheap plugs, was helped musically speaking with a quality reverb just touching it on 4 of 10. A record that was part live board mix (dry) was helped in it's flow and musicality with reverb added, to match other mixes that were more produced live mixes.

Again, I didn't do it for years then did 3 in a month.

[studioland]

Thanks Bob for sharing all this, Hope you'll make a DVD sometime, there are lots of DVDs about mixing and almost nothing on mastering. Your book is great but your 2 minutes video on youtube is better.

Anyway, I don't use verb much, tried it on a dead rap track recently but had to take it off wasn't doing enough good. Will try the EReflection to see if it's better.

[24-96 Mastering]

I use Reverb rarely, but when a track calls for it, there is nothing else to have the effect (maybe ambience restoration might work...).

Using reverb to fix clipped endings of songs gets used maybe every 5th session or so; just to repair a "damaged" source, an ending that is cut too short and thus sounds unnatural.

Using reverb on a track to smooth it out or to give it ambience is used pretty rarely here. Usual occasions may be balads that sound too direct or single tracks that are much more direct sounding than all others on an album. This is pretty rare though - happens here maybe every 2 months or so and will always be run by the client first. Last time I used reverb on a whole track was 2 months ago on a softer song of a rock album that just seemed to lack dimension compared to the other tracks and with regards to its mood. The little bit of reverb worked wonders - suddenly it slotted in nicely in the album where before, it would stand out in a slightly irritating way.

I should say though that reverb for that purpose is applied very, very carefully and is usually added in amounts that as close to unnoticeably as possible while still achieving the desired effect.

Robin Schmidt
24-96 Mastering
CD - SACD - DVD
24-96 Mastering

[Waltz Mastering]

For very occasional reverb / ambience you can't beat the Lexicon 300 ambience program (analog through great converters). I used it on a Piano - Cello album last week. Sounded great. In the box verbs tend to sound a bit metallic.

[drakewire]

Never is a bad word, sometimes Ive seen IR Verb added to an entire mix to make everything appear as if it were recorded in the same room, EQ cant do that, neither can compression. Stereo Widening is an entirely different beast in my humble opinion, but I find in the digital domain a good impulse response on inferior recordings can add an extra layer of sheen and or sparkle to a recording. I am not however, talking about exaggerated Verb either. I find the Wizooverb stuff to be very usable for added sheen and sparkle, same thing with the IK Multimedia Studio verb stuff.
Like I said before though in like a 1 percent wet 99 percent dry instance to a final master where instruments have been recorded in different environments
~Drake

[bcgood]

In Wavelab just a touch of Voxengo Old School Verb and listening closely while adjusting the left and right wet/dry knobs can do some amazing things. Smooth and liven up a track at the same time, it can help accentuate depth cues and rhythm, it's kind of hard to describe actually...

[jamsmith]

The mention of 80's type reverb...

I started engineering in the 80s and I went nuts with reverbs, I think I once used a different reverb on every track except bass and kick! As my engineering career wound down (and I had a livelier room) I found myself using very little reverb - a little Lexicon on vocals and Quadraverb on guitar. However, when I started "mastering" tracks, I found that rather than using reverb as an "effect", I started to use to emulate acoustic spaces. Cool Edit had a reverb program where you defined the damp of the surfaces (6 settings), the dimensions of the room, the placement of the source in the room, and the placement of the "microphones", both placement parameter in all 3 dimensions. I made some very nice spaces.

But usually if I added reverb it was to fix a cuttoff ending, I once used on a last 4 bars to give it a bigger feel.