Mix Engineer With A Question For The Mastering Crew

[paintitblack]

Be sure to note to your mastering engineer of the tracks your worried about. And ask them how confident they are about vocals. But most mastering engineers take pride In their mid side and center abilities. So it should be an ok fix.

[brethes]

Talk to your mastering engineer once he/she has the files. There is usually a little room to play with bringing up or down the levels of vocals without affecting the mix too much (M/S is indeed one of the techniques), but it depends on how much reverb there is on the voice. Bringing the sides up and/or turning the center downs can bring up reverb to an unacceptable level, particularly if the other tracks are very dry.

Your mastering engineer should be able to advise (possibly doing a couple of tests to show you the results) and tell you if you need to remix or not.

[Odeon-Mastering]

Originally Posted by KennyS

I have noticed a little bit of discrepancy in the Vocals. There mixed decently to each song but i'm worried when I send it off that some tracks the vocal will be slightly over powering compared to the vocals on other tracks. Do I need to remix or are you guys capable of a few DB leveling of mainly the Phantom Center?

We are difinetaly able to tweak the vox levels (up to a point).
However, since you seem to have realised that the vox levels may be prolematic, then it only makes sense that you correct the problem, while you still have the mix in your hands. This way you eliminate potential downsides from doing that in the mastering stage, plus you actually do the best you can do and I believe this is the reason people are paying us.

Having said that, I definetaly realise that some mixes cannot be recalled so then it's up to the next professional in line (the Mastering Engineer in this case) to correct things if possible.

[dave-G]

Like Odeon said, if you're the mix engineer, you're in the position where this can be addressed without shenanigans or caveats.

Why not just print a "Vox down" version of each mix in question as an option? To me this seems far better than procrastinating the solution to a stage where true control over track balances is explicitly lost.

[SASMastering]

i'm worried when I send it off that some tracks the vocal will be slightly over powering compared to the vocals on other tracks.

If the artist/producer has approved the vocal levels leave them as is. If there is some uncertainty and openness for objective opinion from the ME send a version with the vocal down slightly a -1dB and -2dB down version.

Hope that helps.

[Adam Dempsey]

Originally Posted by dave-G

Like Odeon said, if you're the mix engineer, you're in the position where this can be addressed without shenanigans or caveats.

Why not just print a "Vox down" version of each mix in question as an option? To me this seems far better than procrastinating the solution to a stage where true control over track balances is explicitly lost.

This. And the fact that most of us would far prefer the option, when uncertainty exists, of a main mix and alternate vox level mixes than to master from stems (which is usually of last resort).
Or all the above could possibly be alleviated by just asking your mastering engineer for objective feedback on vocal level first. If a remix is needed then he or she should be able to help you as to the degree of change(s).

[Serif Sound]

Originally Posted by KennyS

Hey guys, we have a CD i'm finishing mixing here. 13 songs. I have noticed a little bit of discrepancy in the Vocals. They're mixed decently in each song but i'm worried when I send it off that some tracks the vocal will be slightly over powering compared to the vocals on other tracks. Do I need to remix or are you guys capable of a few DB leveling of mainly the Phantom Center? I literally don't know a ton about Mastering so is there a point where you will start getting artifacts or phasing problems or just a shallow sound if you try and tame a center vocal? I do know that things like Waves Center are out there, and i'm sure you guys have a ton of tricks but will it sound better if I just go back and remix the entire song? I don't mind but if ME get this a lot I would like to know.

Cheers,
Kenny

With all due respect, you aren't done mixing if there is doubt about levels. Most Grammy-winning mixists spend 8-12 hours per song nailing the levels of especially the vocals. While you might include a slight up or slight down version of the mix wrt a given element (bass, gtr., lead vocal), it should not be in the realm of risking being "overpowering." Both should be good-sounding and only a question of which will work best. If the mix relies on heavy compression which hasn't yet been applied, apply. "A few dB" should be no more than "2." Points for making it a choice of +1 dB or unity for the given element.

You are the music-maker, and you are the dreamer of the dream. All's we do is make it sound better. *L*


Andrew

[Mastering7]

Originally Posted by KennyS

Hey guys, we have a CD i'm finishing mixing here. 13 songs. I have noticed a little bit of discrepancy in the Vocals. They're mixed decently in each song but i'm worried when I send it off that some tracks the vocal will be slightly over powering compared to the vocals on other tracks.

Hey KennyS,
If I were the mastering engineer I would listen to the album focusing on the critical songs you mention than give advice on what is the best way to solve the problem before mastering with no charge.

[MASSIVE Master]

Side-notes here that may or may not have relevance in this particular case --

1) Spectrally speaking, people rarely notice "too little" of something, but certainly notice "too much" -- A mix that's a little light on low end can go by unnoticed. A mix that's strident on the top or boomy on the bottom won't.

2) Elementally speaking, people rarely notice "too much" of something, but easily notice "too little" -- Vocal (or snare, or whatever) a little too forward? Fine. A little buried? Distracting.

To that end -- Getting the sounds to work well together in the mix is (not surprisingly) the key to everything. The vocal should be able to be too quiet and yet still be heard clearly. The snare should be able to be too loud and not take over. The bass should be able to be heard while the guitars are playing the same note an octave above.

Bad (improper for the mix) core sounds, compromised tracking, overcompression, trying to lead sounds where they don't want to go (EQ'ing "for the source" without taking the mix as a whole into consideration) -- Always good ways to make sure that something will get "swallowed" while something else stands out like a sore thumb. On the flip side, some of the best sounding mixes I've ever done seem questionable in hindsight -- I can think of one in particular where the hat is too hot (but it was really clean and didn't step on anything so it sounds fine), the bass guitar was too low (but there wasn't anything cluttering up that area so it sounds fine), the vocals were a bit too up front (but they weren't pushing anything sideways so it sounds fine), occasionally the guitar was far too loud (but it was friggin' rocking so it sounded like it was done that way completely on purpose).

Clean, clear core sounds that work well together -- It's the difference between "getting a mix to work" and "sculpting a mix the way you want."

I know this is sort of "Mixing 101" but maybe somebody will read it some day and something will click...

[Bob Olhsson]

Provided the vocal is good enough to be out in front, a loud lead vocal makes for a louder record on the air!

Within the context of an album, I try to make the vocal level a constant focal point with the backing tracks moving up and down behind it on each song. If an intro hasn't enough impact, I can turn it and maybe instrumental solos up slightly leaving the rest of the song where it is.

[Mastering7]

++ 1 to Bob and John! One can never respect their opinions enough!

One more thing: Be careful with synth pads if you have any in the mix. Strings and similar synth sounds can eat up presence of the vocal. Sometimes it's a good idea to cut high or mid frequencies a bit to push the synth into the background. /An other topic is to tailor low-mid range.../

[KennyS]

Wow a lot of varying and interesting answers. I always give my clients the best that I can, with that being said the track doesn't sound bad on its own. When I put all if the songs together it sounds just a hair louder. That's why I was curious if it was common to change the vocal but just a dB or two. I even think the right multi band compressor could easily just glue it together. I will go take a listen to it again at the studio. If I'm not sure if its to loud or not ill leave it for the ME but if I still feel its over powering I have no problems going back and recalling.

Cheers!
Kenny

[Bob Olhsson]

I would never move a vocal more than a half db. up or down. More than that and it's a different mix.

[KennyS]

Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson

I would never move a vocal more than a half db. up or down. More than that and it's a different mix.

Cool that's what I was looking for. I will probably just recall it for the vocal levels then no problem.

Thanks,
Kenny