Limiter that doesn't kill the drums!

[WunderBro Flo]

Originally Posted by ShadowAMD

That's some good advice, I'm using UAD ATR for saturation at the moment but I'm not getting along with it.. I might try sonnox inflator.. sounds cool.

The UAD tapemachines are really good as well, but they do much more than just saturation, so they need more attention than the straight saturation plugins like maximizer or inflator, which are "mathematical" like the saturation of the HEDD, accurate and precisely predictable. For the Studer there are "ultralinear" presets out there that result in an "as flat as possible" frequency response, those are a good starting point for saturating peaks away without changing an awful lot more. The Ampex is too bumpy to get a flat setting out of it in general, it is great for mixing through it though. I am now demoing Slate tape, found it useful for taming harsh peaks so far, I still got to see if I can get the same results with UAD tapes...

[rakkaus]

ozone intelligent mode 2 is supposed to preserve high transients.

[bryan k]

Sounds to me like its not really a choice of limiter that is the problem.......its a "tackle the issue at the mix stage" kinda problem. you want loud masters while retaining drum transients, right? And you want it sound good that doesnt sound a like a distorted mess, right?

try this....

(While your MIXING)
At the VERY end of your master buss chain, place a GClip Soft Clipper (its FREE) plugin. Now dont add any gain in this plugin.....but instead, set its threshold line down so its set to about -6dbfs and THATS IT. Now MIX INTO IT. What happens is.....

1) your forcing yourself that extra 6db headroom for Mastering (done later)
2) anything that comes close to this -6db line will now sound like its becoming LIMITED and you can hear the artifacts of over limiting done at the mix stage.......without making ANYTHING louder. Your actually creating your own "sweet spot" so you know where your mix levels should be parked at for optimal end result.

Mix as normal.....and start to listen to what your doing. As your mix approaches that -6db line in GClip, youll start to act accordingly and make adjustments so it doesnt sound like its being overlimited/crushed in the mix stage. You may even notice your transients are shooting past this -6db line in the GClip GUI, but thats ok.....keep mixing untill it sounds good to your ears and the drums are just how you like it....tons of IMPACT and they stay upfront and punchy!

Now when you are done mixing and export your song and are ready to master it, you have 6dbfs room to play with! So when you limit for loudness.....youll find you wont have to push it so hot, and only a tiny bit of limiting (like 1-2db gain reduction) will get you where you want to be! Thus, LESS LIMITING CRUSH and drums stay intact!

[petermiles]

UAD Precision Maximiser. The Precision Limiter totally skims off your kick and snare transients, the maximiser is much much better for LOUD rock and metal mastering!

[ShadowAMD]

Originally Posted by bryan k

Sounds to me like its not really a choice of limiter that is the problem.......its a "tackle the issue at the mix stage" kinda problem. you want loud masters while retaining drum transients, right? And you want it sound good that doesnt sound a like a distorted mess, right?

try this....

(While your MIXING)
At the VERY end of your master buss chain, place a GClip Soft Clipper (its FREE) plugin. Now dont add any gain in this plugin.....but instead, set its threshold line down so its set to about -6dbfs and THATS IT. Now MIX INTO IT. What happens is.....

1) your forcing yourself that extra 6db headroom for Mastering (done later)
2) anything that comes close to this -6db line will now sound like its becoming LIMITED and you can hear the artifacts of over limiting done at the mix stage.......without making ANYTHING louder. Your actually creating your own "sweet spot" so you know where your mix levels should be parked at for optimal end result.

Mix as normal.....and start to listen to what your doing. As your mix approaches that -6db line in GClip, youll start to act accordingly and make adjustments so it doesnt sound like its being overlimited/crushed in the mix stage. You may even notice your transients are shooting past this -6db line in the GClip GUI, but thats ok.....keep mixing untill it sounds good to your ears and the drums are just how you like it....tons of IMPACT and they stay upfront and punchy!

Now when you are done mixing and export your song and are ready to master it, you have 6dbfs room to play with! So when you limit for loudness.....youll find you wont have to push it so hot, and only a tiny bit of limiting (like 1-2db gain reduction) will get you where you want to be! Thus, LESS LIMITING CRUSH and drums stay intact!

That's really neat thanks, I'll try that for my own stuff.. Although I get tracks that have already been "Mixed" so in that scenario it wouldn't be ideal.

I always give 6DB headroom on the master when mixing and place a limiter on every channel Just in case.. Not doing anything just making sure I never go over... Even though I learnt this many years ago, with loudness wars you have to be sly.. Seems I can get away with quite a few DB's of reduction more without wrecking the track with the right limiter, so whose is going to be louder, mine or yours? (Even though I really hate anything to do with loudness wars and as a disclaimer and it's not a dig in any way shape or form

[ShadowAMD]

Originally Posted by petermiles

UAD Precision Maximiser. The Precision Limiter totally skims off your kick and snare transients, the maximiser is much much better for LOUD rock and metal mastering!

Sweet, I'll try it out..

[Dbas]

Originally Posted by petermiles

UAD Precision Maximiser. The Precision Limiter totally skims off your kick and snare transients, the maximiser is much much better for LOUD rock and metal mastering!

You have to be careful with the maximizer because it's mostly a gay clipper in disguise. Use this for checking.

[huejahfink]

Clippers have a sexual orientation?
......Learn something new everyday.

[polybonk]

Yup. Guess what that pro L you use is into.....

[Owen Gillett]

I am pretty certain that my TC brickwall limiter is conservatively heterosexual. :-)

[huejahfink]

I've seen the TC Brickwall wearing a gimp mask.

And Elephant likes armpits... gender irrelevant.

[ShadowAMD]

Aha, nice to see this thread isn't getting silly.

[huejahfink]

(cough)