Would you order 200 vinyl singles without a test pressing?

[SASMastering]

I think I would but then I would be confident of what I was sending, mix wise. Think deep bass, highs, image width, L/R phase integrity, and not going for the hottest possible cut etc.

Ultimately a choice for you in terms of confidence in your vinyl people and the integrity of your mixes for translation to vinyl vs perceived consequences of a bad cut for translation to vinyl / time / cost.

Even in the best of places you can never discount a mistake happening.

[petermontg]

Get test pressing. Problems can occur in Galvanics and stamping, best to QC everything.

[JTransition]

Always get test pressings. It can go wrong at far too many places in the process.

[StringMike]

It's the recordindustry people in the Netherlands. The price is cheap, because it's just label and white sleeves. Actually, it's 493€ ex VAT.

Thanks for the replies, guys. Still have a hard time deciding :-)

[lu432]

I would never recommend skipping a test pressing. First of all tons things can go wrong between plating and press. It also let's you compare masters and presses. Finally you get money back from test pressings from fans that pay extra for test pressing. It's a needless risk to avoid test pressings.

[mossboss]

Test pressings
Well Lets put it this way
No plant will press bad records
The whole idea of a test pressing is to see the quality of the presings themshelves and not the cut or how it sounds as most people think
Say a lacquer has been cut It is never played back as it than becomes useless to make any metal work from it
The assumption is that it is fine
Any one can ask any cutter if they play a freshly cut lacquer back so as to make certain it is right The answer will be a blatant NO
So it goes down the line metal work pressing etc
The pressing plant will listen to the first few pressings so as to make sure it is acceptable regardless weather the client has ordered test pressings or not
If it is not it will not be pressed until the issue has been identified and solved to provide the client with an acceptable quality record
That may involve a variety of solutions depends what the issue is
Say there are more than a couple of clicks on the record
Most likely some form of tratetment will take place so as to get rid of them as well as other procedures that are adopted by the plant
Some times all this fails so another cut takes place and the proces repeated
Simple as that
The client is not even aware of it
The problem becomes difficult when lacquers are received from outside as the above cannot take place since masters original tracks and cutter are out of the equation
It than becomes a case of finger pointing as to who is to carry the can
Hard one when it gets to that guys
So the best way is to choose a plant where the lot is done in house where the problems can be solved by the very people who can do it
Than the case of test pressings is a moot point as the plant will definitelly listen to the pressing so as to make sure it is up to scratch as well as make sure the client is happy with the end result test pressings or not
Cheers

[IIIrd]

Nope....next question.

always ...always get a TP's...get more than 1 , get 10, and play them all

[807Recordings]

Originally Posted by IIIrd

Nope....next question.

always ...always get a TP's...get more than 1 , get 10, and play them all

I could not stress that part enough.
This is physical products with many physical steps that can have errors. IMO any worth while company will insist you do a test press.

[stinkyfingers]

would you put your nuts in a wood-chipper?

[Soundmaster Alex]

Should I press 200 copies without a test pressing?

Should I buy a car that has no wheels?

Should I put my head in a crocodile's mouth?

Etc

[Bobby Rich]

Always get a test pressing!

[Bobby Rich]

Originally Posted by IIIrd

Nope....next question.

always ...always get a TP's...get more than 1 , get 10, and play them all

+1

[thefunnel]

Get the tests, it isn't that expensive, and they act as swell promos or premium pre-order offers.

[Joe_caithness]

Originally Posted by richgilb

For 7" I feel people are buying into a retro gimmick.

how do you figure that?

[Bookerv12]

This hits pretty close to home.

I had a customer do a limited vinyl pressing recently. 100 disks.
He never told anyone he was doing it and did not get a test pressing.
He didn't even use the mastered tracks. (Stupid)
The people at the vinyl place told him that everything would be fine.
Things are not fine.
It's pretty low-end heavy material, and so far, every turntable that it is played on skips pretty badly, and the high end is ....weird.
I would assume that a modern vinyl pressing place would have to address the frequency extremes, but they did not.
Now he has 100 pretty expensive wall hangings.
I would never "not" get a vinyl test pressing.
I don't think he will either.

[Joe_caithness]

I recently a digi master and vinyl pre master for a local hardcore/metal band and they had a test pressing with a series of loud crackles on, turns out the plating went wrong, no one spotted it. They had it re done, new TPs, no problem, then cut it.

No one wants a record with loud crackles on.

[huejahfink]

Some artists like crackles as one of their main instruments!

Still, I doubt they would want too many "bonus" ones...

[monsieur x]

Do a test pressing.

The one time we didn't get one, it was pressed horribly distorted. :/

Also depends on your relationship. Where we most recently pressed a seven inch, the plant has a very cool person in touch with us, who is serious and cares all the way, he babies it the whole way, so I would trust him.

It all depends I guess.

[Bob Olhsson]

Heck, I'm old skoool enough to think one should always get a reference acetate and test pressings!

[Greg Reierson]

Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson

Heck, I'm old skoool enough to think one should always get a reference acetate and test pressings!

Especially if it's an unusually long side, has a heavy bottom or a brittle / sibilant top. The more the cutting guy has to control the extreme frequencies the more you'll want to hear it before it gets plated.

[neilwilkes]

How many pressings need to be made before the stamper has warmed up enough to get a decent result though?

[Bob Olhsson]

I've been told presses don't stabilize for the first 100 but that was back when 1000 copies was the absolute minimum run. Smaller runs may well be able to be optimized for fewer pressings.

[Paul Gold]

I think there are too many variables to make a blanket statement about number of records. A record with nothing above 10K will be much easier to press than something with tons of HF information. Ambient temperature is a big variable as well as many other parameters.

[Plush]

Always get a test pressing. Otherwise you're just a cheap know nothing.

Also if you don't qualify the product, you disrespect your fans and your customers.

[SASMastering]

It raises an important point, mastering engineers producing digital files listen to the audio they send people, how come the mastering/lathe engineers responsible for making the vinyl do not listen to the result of their work before delivery to their paying client, are they exempt or simply do not care ?

Is it a case of "Yes there was a problem with the cut it sounds awful, thats how it goes sometimes, tough luck we never listen to the products we produce."

Edit: It does seem to be the case that most plants T&C's indemnify themselves against responsibility if test pressings are not ordered. I can understand why to a degree as any small variation of sound could bring up disputes. But if a pressing goes severely wrong I cannot understand why a plant would find it acceptable.

[Paul Gold]

Originally Posted by SASMastering

how come the mastering/lathe engineers responsible for making the vinyl do not listen to the result of their work before delivery to their paying client, are they exempt or simply do not care ?

Because the mastering engineer is not responsible for problems with the production run. Only the cut. Lacquers should not be listened to for risk of damage. That's why it's a hard job. If you screw up a CD master it will just have the same bad sound that the client approved. It takes essentially no skill or knowledge to make a CD pre master. Hit go in Nero and your done. Order an acetate if you want to hear what it will sound like.

Could you evaluate a bad stamper for a CD run? Do you listen to production CD's to catch problems for your clients?

There is no such thing as a perfect record. Every record is different too. No such thing as an exact copy. That is why it is up to the client to approve or not.

[Tracks To Wax]

Originally Posted by SASMastering

It raises an important point, mastering engineers producing digital files listen to the audio they send people, how come the mastering/lathe engineers responsible for making the vinyl do not listen to the result of their work before delivery to their paying client, are they exempt or simply do not care ?

Is it a case of "Yes there was a problem with the cut it sounds awful, thats how it goes sometimes, tough luck we never listen to the products we produce."

Edit: It does seem to be the case that most plants T&C's indemnify themselves against responsibility if test pressings are not ordered. I can understand why to a degree as any small variation of sound could bring up disputes. But if a pressing goes severely wrong I cannot understand why a plant would find it acceptable, it would hardly be good for their reputation.

I don't think it's to do with ignoring bad pressing, more to do with the lathe cut stage? For most i think the only way to hear a lathe cut is via a test press, a second lathe cut (to dubplate) may not be consistent with the first (environmental/set-up/wear factors in the lathe cutting stage) and would therefore be a useless measure of quality, tis the nature of lathe cutting. Not sure if the plant are going to be checking the work of the third party cutting engineer. any errors by the pressing process, you would hope the plant would make sure where not present in the final product?

[lu432]

Originally Posted by Tracks To Wax

I don't think it's to do with ignoring bad pressing, more to do with the lathe cut stage? For most i think the only way to hear a lathe cut is via a test press, a second lathe cut (to dubplate) may not be consistent with the first (environmental/set-up/wear factors in the lathe cutting stage) and would therefore be a useless measure of quality, tis the nature of lathe cutting. Not sure if the plant are going to be checking the work of the third party cutting engineer. any errors by the pressing process, you would hope the plant would make sure where not present in the final product.

Plant QC people check everything and may end up destroying various records to ensure a quality pressing. However a lot of times they are shooting in the dark because they receive no references to check against from 3rd Party ME's. The 3rd party ME's will simply only send over the stampers or have them mailed in from the plating company directly with no reference material. Making test pressing more important than ever for a customer to reference source material.

[Tracks To Wax]

Originally Posted by lu432

Plant QC people check everything and may end up destroying various records to ensure a quality pressing. However a lot of times they are shooting in the dark because they receive no references to check against from 3rd Party ME's. The 3rd party ME's will simply only send over the stampers or have them mailed in from the plating company directly with no reference material. Making test pressing more important than ever for a customer to reference source material.

yes, that was my point , and as stated, they're gonna check their own work, but the plant however is not always going to know if certain audio/noise on the stampers are intentional or a result lathe bad cut without ref, but then the ME/cutter should do this etc etc