Would you order 200 vinyl singles without a test pressing?

[lu432]

Originally Posted by Tracks To Wax

yes, that was my point , and as stated, they're gonna check their own work, but the plant however is not always going to know if certain audio/noise on the stampers are intentional or a result lathe bad cut without ref, but then the ME/cutter should do this etc etc

Den I r in agreement :p

[JTransition]

Misinformation alert

[Bob Olhsson]

I can only speak for myself but we always cut a master reference acetate immediately after cutting master lacquers, listened to it and then sent it to whoever was doing quality control. Today I still follow this practice with CD masters.

[SASMastering]

Well thanks for explaining that especially Paul Gold, it's appreciated.

Just trying to clarify here:

A test pressing is created by the plant from the actual stamper they create from the actual lacquer that is supplied by the lather engineer ? It must be, logically speaking, because there is no actual QC point otherwise.

A dubplate/acetate/wax is just a secondary lacquer made from a ME's/Lathe engineers lathe, which will wear out with a few plays? These are made from the same materials as the lacquer for the stamper is made from i.e. Cellulose coated Aluminium disks?

A few gaps in my knowledge with the physical part of vinyl manufacturing that is now being cleared up, I am open to admit. All the pre mastering for vinyl I have worked with has been successful thus far fortunately. (and I guess 1pct of my work is 24 bit files for vinyl pressing purposes )

[sanddigger1]

Originally Posted by SASMastering

Well thanks for explaining that especially Paul Gold, it's appreciated.

Just trying to clarify here:

A test pressing is created by the plant from the actual stamper they create from the actual lacquer that is supplied by the lather engineer ? The test pressing is made from vinyl or another material ?

It must be, logically speaking because there is no actual QC point otherwise.

Yes. The test pressing is made from the same stamper which will be used for the final product and is made of vinyl.

Originally Posted by SASMastering

A dubplate/acetate is just a secondary lacquer made from a ME's/Lathe engineers lathe which will wear out with a few plays?

Yes, it is.

One of my clients recently refused to order a test-pressing against my advice. The final product has huge noise and cracklings due to inferior vinyl and/or pressing temperature issues. Always ask for one.

[SASMastering]

Thanks sanddigger.

[Soundmaster Alex]

I suppose this would be a good time to link this great, if a little dated, video about vinyl manufacture:

How Vinyl Records Are Made PART 1 OF 2 - YouTube

And there's a part 2 also.

For what it's worth, most people don't ask us for an acetate for reference anymore, possibly due to their margins on the manufacturing costs. Either way vinyl is definitely alive and well, our lathe has been busier this year than any of the previous 3 or 4 at least.

[lu432]

Originally Posted by Fat larry

Misinformation alert

Fat Larry what is miss information?

That I worked at a plant where we would get plates without references? It happened, we could sort through most of it but there were ME's that had several projects kicked back because of bad cuts or other issues. It's what makes it so important for artists to get references. If you think about it is a win win situation for every one.

[Adimus]

Does anybody use laser turbtables too check the laquer for obvious shortcomings?
It's understandable that time is money, but so is lack of QC...

[IIIrd]

Originally Posted by StringMike

Hi there!

I consider releasing a single from my forthcoming LP, and it would be cool, if I could manage it within a certain timeframe. The plant I'm working with has a turnaround time of 10-12 days for the test pressing and another 10-12 days for the manufacturing of the actual singles.
Is it too risky to skip the test pressing? It's just 200 copies (app. 450€), so it's not that big a deal, and the reason why I am even considering skipping the test press, but it would still be pretty disappointing if they came out bad.
I will be attending the cutting, don't know if I can check anything at that point.

Regards,
Mikkel

Short answer....NO....get test pressings - forgot to add

[Virtalahde]

Originally Posted by Adimus

Does anybody use laser turbtables too check the laquer for obvious shortcomings?
It's understandable that time is money, but so is lack of QC...

Interesting idea, but all laser TT's I'm aware of have a tray, and don't accept anything bigger than 12".

[Cellotron]

Back in the day of dance music labels shipping lots of units circa late 90's early 2000's - it was in fact common practice for an initial "white label promo" run to be made via a high count test pressing order. These records were accepted at risk of the label so if defects happened they were not reimbursed - but since these were generally labels doing lots of orders - and generally with experienced producers who did not cut corners in regards to mastering expenses - the problems I saw during my time as a vinyl pressing plant production manager were minimal. If problems were encountered with the test/promo run the label was well prepared for the situation where it would just order new masters/plates/tests/promos.

Another thing a some plants offer is to do a short white label run done in place of any test pressing such as what the original poster is considering. Again - this would be accepted at risk of the client so defects would not get reimbursed. If you are simply wanting some records at lowest cost and are not in any way picky or even overall concerned about the sound of the end results is the only way I would consider this option. I would at minimum get an acetate reference dub plate made by the cutting engineer first to at least confirm that you are happy with the mastering - so that any potential problems encountered would be instead the result of plating or pressing. For people inexperienced with mixing/pre-mastering for vinyl release or who do actually have concerns about the end sound quality I would not recommend this though.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[Paul Gold]

Lacquer is highly flammable. I don't think a laser is a good idea...

[Cellotron]

Originally Posted by lu432

Plant QC people check everything and may end up destroying various records to ensure a quality pressing. However a lot of times they are shooting in the dark because they receive no references to check against from 3rd Party ME's. The 3rd party ME's will simply only send over the stampers or have them mailed in from the plating company directly with no reference material. Making test pressing more important than ever for a customer to reference source material.

To clarify what's written above, based on my direct experience:
The standard operating procedure for most pressing plants to keep a copy or two of all test pressings for current orders and to use approved test records as reference in case of any concerns during quality control listens to the pressed product - or claims by the client that the pressing order is not to the standards that were on approved test records.

Again - when stampers are received regardless of their origin (i.e. either in house or 3rd party plating facilities) then standard procedure is for test records are made for approval. An acetate dub plate is not relevant to a pressing plant because this is not a part that is directly in the production chain - which is why these are never forwarded to pressing plants - they are instead just tools for the client to be more guaranteed that the mastering will be to their liking prior to incurring expense and time for cutting the lacquer masters - but acetate dubplates are not relevant for checking concerns about pressing or plating. Test records are the reference for the pressing plant because these are made from stampers from the same lacquer/master/mother as the pressed records will be made from.

Best regards,
Steve Berson