Indurstry standard mastering equipment

[Thor]

To save you from doing the research yourself?

You want a shopping list?

Try Bob Katz's book for starters. Then hang out, read, listen and learn. You might want to lurk on other forii as well where there are less newbies/wannabies and more established, working professionals.

Just a thought or two.

Thor

[DominicWyeth]

Check this out

[ZombieLuke]

[Red Mastering]

Originally Posted by ZombieLuke

I was wondering if you guys could give me a short list of the most common outboard gear, monitors, and software used in mastering. Thanks

Luke

1. acoustically treated room
2. pair of great monitors
3. good amp and converters
4. processing equipment (hardware and/or software)

I was in many studios in my life, and I always see some equipment I wouldn't think to utilize, so learning every single day
good luck

[OralnHardly]

The most important pieces in a mastering room are

1. The Me's ears...this could take decades
1. A very good room (this could be expensive)...50k-250K??
1. A very good monitoring chain (this could also be expensive) speakers, converter could run you in the 10's of thousands

Everything else doesn't matter...particular outboard processing, software...are unimportant...the three above are essential....any discussion to the contrary is from folks that you should't send your work to.

[Magucci]

E x p e r i e n c e and gear above $5K

[Dene]

there is no "standard" gear per se. so if your looking for a specific gear list you will be disappointed...someone already recommended Bob Katz's book....that is probably the only thing everyone in this forum has in common.... so i suggest you start there.

[sat159p1]

Originally Posted by OralnHardly

1. A very good room (this could be expensive)...50k-250K??

This is a joke, seriously.
If you have plain room and will do all the diffusors and bass traps by yourself, knowing the acoustics and measurements of the room, I think you can do it for less than $1500. Of course you can hire the company which specialize in studio acoustics that will measure it for you for $2000, plan a project for $2000 and do the rest for $15000, but it's all up to you. You can go for something between.

[Red Mastering]

Originally Posted by sat159p1

This is a joke, seriously.
If you have plain room and will do all the diffusors and bass traps by yourself, knowing the acoustics and measurements of the room, I think you can do it for less than $1500. Of course you can hire the company which specialize in studio acoustics that will measure it for you for $2000, plan a project for $2000 and do the rest for $15000, but it's all up to you. You can go for something between.

+1 on this
I spent around 1500$ per materials in my studio and a lot of time putting this together, not to mention learning about acoustics first,
you don't need to spend $$$$ as much as mentioned by OH,
you need to spend wisely
room and monitors are crucial,
you can get sec. hand monitors for around 1000£ (1500$)
hypex amp - 700£ (diy)
under 5000$, if you spend wisely you can get room &monitors&amp
now, pc and plugins and other tools, could cost much more,
but then again, spend wisely and you don't have to spend thousands of $$$$

[OralnHardly]

Originally Posted by sat159p1

This is a joke, seriously.

No 50 -250K is not a joke when it comes to Mastering Rooms.

Not at all a Joke. What you suggest is a joke when you are talking about a Mastering Room.

This is the part that really matters. To isolate any room, which would be a necessity unless you live in a forest...alone....and isolating a proper sized room is a lot of work and expensive.

Treatment in a room is the last thing that happens.

Proper design and build are crucial and don't come cheap. Your numbers are utterly ridiculous and you attitude is indicative of the general lack of knowledge surrounding this subject.

[ZombieLuke]

I am working backwards from the final mix and trying to define the best solution to this work flow.

Monitors----Room Corrective EQ------Mastering Limiter------Multi-band Compressor-----Passive EQ------AD/DA I/O-----Compressor-----Preamp----Source

I have a thread going in the other forum trying to define a sort of shopping list.

I guess I should just search for a Go To list of mastering gear.

[Riccardo]

DAW - DA - EQ - Comp - AD - DAW - (Brick-wal limiter if needed) - Monitor DA - Monitor controller/switcher - Amp - Speakers - Room - Acoustics.
The last three being the most important in the chain.

You can take preamp and multi-band off the list for the time being ......

[Thor]

Translated to English: "you need to hire someone who actually knows what they're doing instead of throwing your money away on quick fixes or quasi-acoustics"

It's no different than mastering. Do you want do do your own mastering, or use an experienced professional with thousands of records behind him (or her)?

Reading a book on acoustics does not equate to being a professional with a MSc/PhD in the field and years of real world experience (and proven room designs to show for it). There's a reason we have specialists here in the world, and just as mastering is a speciality, so is acoustics.

We invested in a real room from a proven designer. As good as things sounded before (both with our own knowledge as well as other less experienced consultants), it's night and day compared to what we have now.

I would never discount the value of hiring a pro, especially when the room is in most cases the most important 'piece of gear' in a mastering studio.

Just my 2 centavos,
Thor

Originally Posted by Red Mastering

you need to spend wisely

[Red Mastering]

Originally Posted by Thor

Translated to English: "you need to hire someone who actually knows what they're doing instead of throwing your money away on quick fixes or quasi-acoustics"

It's no different than mastering. Do you want do do your own mastering, or use an experienced professional with thousands of records behind him (or her)?

Reading a book on acoustics does not equate to being a professional with a MSc/PhD in the field and years of real world experience (and proven room designs to show for it). There's a reason we have specialists here in the world, and just as mastering is a speciality, so is acoustics.

We invested in a real room from a proven designer. As good as things sounded before (both with our own knowledge as well as other less experienced consultants), it's night and day compared to what we have now.

I would never discount the value of hiring a pro, especially when the room is in most cases the most important 'piece of gear' in a mastering studio.

Just my 2 centavos,
Thor

yes, but did you spend quarter of million $ for it ?
I doubt it,
....through my not so long life so far (41years) I managed to see many mastering guys working in far from super ideal conditions,
and I am not talking about bedroom chaps
but serious lads with long history of mastering, and dozens hundreds of first league albums mastered
the thing is, somehow those ppl managed to work for 20 years or longer in not so ideal conditions and cut albums and have happy clients

[Thor]

I had a 1/4 million invested *before* I even hired an acoustician. The acoustician and complete rebuild came in addition to what I'd already built up on my own.

Sure, if you apprenticed at any major label or facility, you spend years just listening and assisting before you do anything, under very experienced people (and they were pretty much all working in the best facilities money could buy/build). And you're guided, and learn the rooms intimately. Not only that, most of those people had/have real university degrees in hard science and/or engineering. Not Full Sail graduates. Those days are gone though, and in many ways it is a lot harder to learn and to do top rate work today compared to before.

I can agree with you about some people turning out first rate work in less than ideal conditions, but the people I know doing that have all upgraded/moved/built real rooms as soon as they were able to. I think anyone would agree it makes working much easier, decisions much more certain, and the job a whole lot easier when you can actually trust and rely on your monitoring environment 100% and not have to spend needless time and energy second guessing how things will sound somewhere else.

Maybe life is different in the UK, but I don't think the people I know there at Abbey Road or Metropolis would want to go to 'not so ideal conditions and cut albums' if asked. But ask the people with not so great rooms if they would prefer a great room...

Cheers,
Thor

[sat159p1]

Originally Posted by Red Mastering

yes, but did you spend quarter of million $ for it ?
I doubt it,
....through my not so long life so far (41years) I managed to see many mastering guys working in far from super ideal conditions,
and I am not talking about bedroom chaps
but serious lads with long history of mastering, and dozens hundreds of first league albums mastered
the thing is, somehow those ppl managed to work for 20 years or longer in not so ideal conditions and cut albums and have happy clients

+1000!

Almost everyone of us started some time ago. Do you guys really had $250k then to treat a room (not to mention equipment!)? If yes - contrats on having a lot of money in the beginning. I wish I could had it when I started the studio. But I was on my own, with more or less money, good ears and some experience. Gotta knew acoustics, how to measure & how to treat it by myself.

I can agree with you about some people turning out first rate work in less than ideal conditions, but the people I know doing that have all upgraded/moved/built real rooms as soon as they were able to. I think anyone would agree it makes working much easier, decisions much more certain, and the job a whole lot easier when you can actually trust and rely on your monitoring environment 100% and not have to spend needless time and energy second guessing how things will sound somewhere else.

Yeah. Of course almost everyone upgrades in time when the work gives you money. But the "rely on your monitoring environment" is the most important key here. I wouldn't change my room once a few years, I wouldnt change my monitors once a few years. Even if your equipment does not cost (thousand) hundreds of dollars, you know how it sounds and how to correct the sound. New "acoustic" environment can cause lot of errors in the first year of using it. It's A LOT.

Not at all a Joke. What you suggest is a joke when you are talking about a Mastering Room.

Do you suggest that only room with 50-250k spent on acoustic is worth their job? Not everyone have a chance to master in Abbey Road. Or maybe that rooms which has 10 compressors, 10 eq's, etc worth another 50k? This is not the case. The room should sound good. The equipment should be pro, the monitoring should be known by yours ears for years. $15k studio with good engineer will produce great results, the same as $500 studio with good engineer. We all know that some of the biggest names in mastering world had ruined a lot of great albums in the mastering process (taking BIG money for it). What about them? It's not the thing to discuss on this topic.

[jackbraglia]

a good place to start would be some good full-range speakers (maybe look for some secondhand B&W's) and a well treated room. Gear can come later when you actually know what you're doing

[Thor]

Originally Posted by sat159p1

+1000!

Almost everyone of us started some time ago. Do you guys really had $250k then to treat a room (not to mention equipment!)? If yes - contrats on having a lot of money in the beginning. I wish I could had it when I started the studio. But I was on my own, with more or less money, good ears and some experience. Gotta knew acoustics, how to measure & how to treat it by myself.

I didn't say I started with $250k, I said I invested (at least) that, over time, as business grew. And I said that, as other's, including Red mastering, have explained, the gear and monitors are only as good as the room that they're in.

Originally Posted by sat159p1

Yeah. Of course almost everyone upgrades in time when the work gives you money. But the "rely on your monitoring environment" is the most important key here. I wouldn't change my room once a few years, I wouldnt change my monitors once a few years. Even if your equipment does not cost (thousand) hundreds of dollars, you know how it sounds and how to correct the sound. New "acoustic" environment can cause lot of errors in the first year of using it. It's A LOT.

So because a good room costs a lot and can take time to adapt to, you advocate not bothering with it?

Originally Posted by sat159p1

Do you suggest that only room with 50-250k spent on acoustic is worth their job? Not everyone have a chance to master in Abbey Road. Or maybe that rooms which has 10 compressors, 10 eq's, etc worth another 50k? This is not the case. The room should sound good. The equipment should be pro, the monitoring should be known by yours ears for years. $15k studio with good engineer will produce great results, the same as $500 studio with good engineer. We all know that some of the biggest names in mastering world had ruined a lot of great albums in the mastering process (taking BIG money for it). What about them? It's not the thing to discuss on this topic.

You didn't read what I wrote. The OP wanted a shopping list for gear + monitors. Several people pointed out the importance the room plays in the equation. One suggested a good room might cost as much as $250k. Another said nah, don't waste your money, just go DIY, read a book, cobble together some diffusers, etc. I provided an opposing viewpoint to his, and supported the view that money invested in (real) acoustics is money well spent, and money saved down the line.

Obviously there are different levels in the industry, from bedroom warriors to cost-no-object-everything-top-of the-line rooms. If you're aiming for the first, don't knock the second. There's a place for both.

Cheers,
Thor

[Liam Judah]

Originally Posted by Thor

Obviously there are different levels in the industry, from bedroom warriors to cost-no-object-everything-top-of the-line rooms. If you're aiming for the first, don't knock the second. There's a place for both.

Cheers,
Thor

This is so true. I've learned a great deal lurking and asking questions, and my music is far better for having done so. Not because I found the "answer", but because the insights gained served as a good starting point for me to discover what good looks like in the context of my own (humble) room.

Many thanks to those of you who respect the craft, and those of us trying to learn it, enough to share your knowledge and insight.

[sat159p1]

Originally Posted by Thor

Obviously there are different levels in the industry, from bedroom warriors to cost-no-object-everything-top-of the-line rooms. If you're aiming for the first, don't knock the second. There's a place for both.

I agree. That's why mastering can be done in a $1500 room and $200k room with excellent results, when the engineer is good of course.

[Thomas W. Bethe]

A good acoustician is vital to getting your room to sound good. Reading magazines or books or looking up topics on the WWW cannot in anyway substitute for a good acoustician IMHO.

I also have a suggestion as to what equipment is "standard". Go to 20 of the top mastering sites and look and see what they are using. You will see lots of different equipment being used but some equipment seems to show up on a regular basis. IMHO there is no such thing a standard equipment for mastering. You use what you feel comfortable using and produces the best results.

[Storyville]

A room that is within +1 or -1 db at any frequency anywhere within the field of the monitors, perfectly phase coherent and balanced at listening position will run around a quarter mill. If you don't believe that or understand why that is, don't say it's wrong. If you understand that, but disagree with the relevance of it, that's a different story - but when telling that story, try not to shoot people on the top rung down from below.

As a second note, there is no "industry standard" in terms of gear.

[huejahfink]

I don't think anyone was saying that spending hundreds of thousands on acoustics was actually wrong though.
They were just saying that it is possible to get good results on a low budget if you are prepared to put some time and effort into it.
The marketplace is complex with many tiers of budget and expectancy out there, as well as engineers who tend to specialise in niche markets.
I don't think it's the case that spending anything less than "a certain budget" is a complete waste of time for everyone. Some of my favourite music has been recorded, mixed AND mastered by one person in a small, low cost non-commercial studio. It sounds as good as almost anything else out there.
As Thor says, "There's a place for both".... and everything else in between.

Will a low budget room be as good as a high budget one? No of course not - and I don't think anyone was trying to suggest that.

Is it possible for an engineer to do their work in a lower budget room for their "lower budget" clientele and for everyone involved to be satisfied? Absolutely.

It's not a black and white world.

[Thomas W. Bethe]

Originally Posted by huejahfink

I don't think anyone was saying that spending hundreds of thousands on acoustics was actually wrong though.
They were just saying that it is possible to get good results on a low budget if you are prepared to put some time and effort into it.
The marketplace is complex with many tiers of budget and expectancy out there, as well as engineers who tend to specialise in niche markets.
I don't think it's the case that spending anything less than "a certain budget" is a complete waste of time for everyone. Some of my favourite music has been recorded, mixed AND mastered by one person in a small, low cost non-commercial studio. It sounds as good as almost anything else out there.
As Thor says, "There's a place for both".... and everything else in between.

Will a low budget room be as good as a high budget one? No of course not - and I don't think anyone was trying to suggest that.

Is it possible for an engineer to do their work in a lower budget room for their "lower budget" clientele and for everyone involved to be satisfied? Absolutely.

It's not a black and white world.

I have seen some really bad attempts at DIY acoustics. All the way from egg crates on the wall to someone who spent very big bucks to make their room completely dead. If you really want to DIY it then I would suggest some of the books by Alton Everest. Amazon.com: Master Handbook of Acoustics (9780071360975): F. Alton Everest: Books

The speakers and the room HAVE to work together other wise you can spend a half a million dollars on the speakers and have them sound like sh!t. I know I have been in rooms where no thought went into the acoustics and the person blew big bucks on the equipment and the speakers will never reach their true potential until they are in a good room that is properly designed for them.

IMHO if you are going to master someone's material you have to have be listening to the best quality sound you can afford. After all this is the final quality check before the client's work is published. Inferior speaker or an inferior room will not give you the confidence you need to do a GREAT job.

FWIW and YMMV

[SASMastering]

IMHO if you are going to master someone's material you have to have be listening to the best quality sound you can afford.

I know what you are trying to say but some people may only be able to afford 6.5 inch near fields. I am of the opinion this approach demonstrates insufficient knowledge, experience and technical capability to professionally master music.

I am also of the opinion that an investment of $250,000.00 in acoustics is quite possibly not a prudent business decision today. However you must ensure you have made the effort that is required to create a linear monitoring situation.

I respect the knowledge and ability of an acoustic engineer.

[echoRausch]

Originally Posted by Storyville

A room that is within +1 or -1 db at any frequency anywhere within the field of the monitors, perfectly phase coherent and balanced at listening position will run around a quarter mill.

Not sure if you can get something like that for 250k. I would really like to see some measurements of professional designed rooms... but nobody seems to make their measurements public.

[SASMastering]

A room that is within +1 or -1 db at any frequency anywhere within the field of the monitors, perfectly phase coherent and balanced at listening position will run around a quarter mill.

It does not exist, move your ear 5 cms and you are out.

[sat159p1]

Just wondering... If you have a chance to master in someones room at someones monitors there's a big chance that you will do it wrong. Even if they are million dollar rooms. It's because you dont know that two things well. What I'm trying to say that the more important thing is knowing your sound flow than 100% perfect room/monitors (which in fact does not exist

[Chris Bauer]

Originally Posted by ZombieLuke

I was wondering if you guys could give me a short list of the most common outboard gear, monitors, and software used in mastering. Thanks

Luke

OK, so let's assume you have thought of acoustic treatment.

The Manley Vari-Mu compressor, Buzz REQ 2.2, B&W 802 monitors and Wavelab 7 are all quite popular and well suited for mastering. However, there are numerous alternatives that may suit your personal taste and budget better. For example, I use gear by Gyraf, FCS, Kush, PSI and it's really good too.