Manley Vari-Mu as limiter

[syntone]

I think for a complex piece of music (mastering), 2-4 dB of gain reduction is too much.
You begin to reverse the overall dynamic, and you can certainly hear the pumping side effect on the quietest sections, especially with a long release.

You can try longer attack and shorter release. It will reduce the pumping effect, but will increase the amount of distortion.
In limiter mode, the V-Mu works best with the T-Pad mod.

I use a lot the limiter mode, but the needles barely moves.

I find it works well with 2-6 dB of gain reduction, especially with the T-Pad mod, but that's for bass, voice, or drum buss.

2R

[fossaree]

Thanks , it makes sense and yes I am using it for mastering purposes .
I will try the recovery mode set to middle position and try moving the attack clockwise to the right (longer attack) . I was trying to achieve a brickwall limiter thing for more electronic/pop oriented tracks , but pumping was happening as I was saying . I will come back to tell how it worked !

Originally Posted by syntone

I think for a complex piece of music (mastering), 2-4 dB of gain reduction is too much.
You begin to reverse the overall dynamic, and you can certainly hear the pumping side effect on the quietest sections, especially with a long release.

You can try longer attack and shorter release. It will reduce the pumping effect, but will increase the amount of distortion.
In limiter mode, the V-Mu works best with the T-Pad mod.

I use a lot the limiter mode, but the needles barely moves.

I find it works well with 2-6 dB of gain reduction, especially with the T-Pad mod, but that's for bass, voice, or drum buss.

2R

[Twerk]

Perhaps a fast attack and a fast release? Turn those knobs until you hear what you want.

I still have yet to try my vari-mu as a limiter.

[syntone]

The V-Mu is not makes for brickwall limiting ... it introduces lot of distortion and unpredictable pumping effect, even if you have the HPF and T-Pad Mod.

In the analog domain, I think you can get best results with the PL-2 or the MPL-2, or clipping an AD!

However, if you want a brickwall limiting effect, do it in the digital domain.

2R

[fossaree]

Originally Posted by syntone

The V-Mu is not makes for brickwall limiting ... it introduces lot of distortion and unpredictable pumping effect, even if you have the HPF and T-Pad Mod.

In the analog domain, I think you can get best results with the PL-2 or the MPL-2, or clipping an AD!

However, if you want a brickwall limiting effect, do it in the digital domain.

2R

Distortion , that was one of the things that I forgot to mention on my post , but that would happen as well !!!

So I tried your suggestions and it did the trick ! Medium recovery , slightly longer attack and VU reading less than 2db . Intuitively i did what you are suggesting before i really read it , that was using the brick wall thing with limiter plug-ins .

I think now I got it covered . Or better than before at least . Thank you very much !!

[Filthrill]

Used to use the V-Mu all the time at a former studio I worked at. I really miss the thing. One of the things I remember was that it was hard to make sound bad & even when it was pumping the wrong way it sounded pretty good. Definitely a staple in a great studio.

[inlinenl]

Sometimes I'm using the vari-mu as limiter , but really in mastering I would consider more then 0.5 GR to be the max for me .. just to be shaving of some peaks before AD & avoiding to much color by having the input control lower as in a compression setting ..

[fossaree]

Originally Posted by Filthrill

Used to use the V-Mu all the time at a former studio I worked at. I really miss the thing. One of the things I remember was that it was hard to make sound bad & even when it was pumping the wrong way it sounded pretty good. Definitely a staple in a great studio.

that's true !

Originally Posted by inlinenl

Sometimes I'm using the vari-mu as limiter , but really in mastering I would consider more then 0.5 GR to be the max for me .. just to be shaving of some peaks before AD & avoiding to much color by having the input control lower as in a compression setting ..

yes , i did learn it !

[syntone]

Glad it works for you Fossaree!

In this mode I also find that if the needles are moving that's almost already too much.
If the mix is entirely ITB, I'm inclined to use it at unity gain.
It depends on the material, but it's a usefull mode for pulling down drum without killing the snare, and if the mix need lot of work, I also like it in M/S before another clean comp, even if I usually found that less is more!

2R

[Jerry Tubb]

I use the Manley VM in limit mode quite often, in tandem with Rupert Neve MBP.

But just for some VM "vibe" and not as a final limiter.

Don't think I've seen the needles move much in this mode.

The Neve does the heavy lift there.

You may be asking too much from the VMu, at least in a mastering context.

Best, JT

[Filthrill]

Originally Posted by Jerry Tubb

I use the Manley VM in limit mode quite often, in tandem with Rupert Neve MBP.

But just for some VM "vibe" and not as a final limiter.

Don't think I've seen the needles move much in this mode.

The Neve does the heavy lift there.

You may be asking too much from the VMu, at least in a mastering context.

Best, JT

Hey Jerry, I'm curious. Do u have the mastering-modified Manley? The one that has a downward slope starting @ around 11k? I was thinking about buying a Manley but would like to know what other mastering guys are using, the original or modified one? Thanks.

[matucha]

I like to use it in the limiter mode when mixing (on individual tracks). The knee isn't too steep, it is just 4:1 and going up to 20:1 only when you hit it hard. So it's unusable as brickwall limiter. But that's hardly its purpose.
When mastering, I'm in the compressor mode attack between 10 to 2 o'clock mostly and recovery on fast. I can't remember when I prefered slower recovery than the fastest. Gain reduction up to 1dB, 2dB on special ocassions when some anemic sounding mix needs more character.

[EveAnna Manley]

There is no inherent difference in frequency response between Manley Variable Mu regular vs. mastering editions.

Maybe you were thinking about the different filters used in the Mastering Version of the Massive Passive EQ?

[Filthrill]

Originally Posted by EveAnna Manley

There is no inherent difference in frequency response between Manley Variable Mu regular vs. mastering editions.

Maybe you were thinking about the different filters used in the Mastering Version of the Massive Passive EQ?

Yeah I just checked out the details on your site. Ahh yes the steps, the Grayhill switches. Mmmm. Thanks for that!

Funny, I had a few very well-known MEs in the area swear that they had a downward slope on their mastering unit's high end. Haaha. I will set em straight next time.

[Jerry Tubb]

Originally Posted by Filthrill

Hey Jerry, I'm curious. Do u have the mastering-modified Manley? The one that has a downward slope starting @ around 11k? I was thinking about buying a Manley but would like to know what other mastering guys are using, the original or modified one? Thanks.

We have two of the "regular" VMs.

But I've often thought how nice it would be to have the repeatable switches.

Best, JT

[Miles Flint]

I use the vari-mu just before AD in comp mode for a few peaks, but @ max 0.5-1db GR... don't really like it in limit mode. I think this box is all about the "input-knob"... therefore I do NOT want the mastering edition with stepped controls, sometimes it's just that 0.5mm-push that's needed for the perfect shape! still a great box!

[fossaree]

Thank you all , it was very clarifying all your inputs .Constructively , you pointed to my misuse . We had even Manley's big boss showing up !
Have a great weekend !

[Filthrill]

Originally Posted by Miles Flint

I use the vari-mu just before AD in comp mode for a few peaks, but @ max 0.5-1db GR... don't really like it in limit mode. I think this box is all about the "input-knob"... therefore I do NOT want the mastering edition with stepped controls, sometimes it's just that 0.5mm-push that's needed for the perfect shape! still a great box!

Very good point. The only drawback is that this makes recall a lil harder.

[michaelb]

I was just curious as to if you were using the Compress or Limit switch on the unit?

[Filthrill]

Michael, not sure if you're asking the question to me or someone else but I never used it in Limit mode. Alway Compress. I tried but never had any luck using Limit mode on any material.

[Slug1]

My vm is my go to comp used mostly for hip hop and rnb. Always in comp mode. Haven't needed 20:1 ratio in mastering yet. Since I do stem mixing before hand I deal with hard compression earlier with either waves API 2500 or C4. Vm is usually set with attack at 10 o'clock and recovery on fast. Rarely more than a db of gr but in hip hop the kicks and snares are hot so the needle does jump. Love to hit the input hard. It sits after my massivo mastering and before my dangerous bax. That's my current go to chain. Hope to an API 5500 and TC Phoenix. But vari mu Mojo is real. It makes things sound like a rekkid!

[Adam Dempsey]

Originally Posted by Slug1

My vm is my go to comp used mostly for hip hop and rnb. Always in comp mode. Haven't needed 20:1 ratio in mastering yet.

In limit mode it starts at 4:1 then increases to 20:1 only from ~12dB of gain reduction onwards. It's not a hard limiter in the modern sense at all.
Although the knee is certainly softer in comp mode I find that too squishy under most settings for gain reduction in mastering, but a touch in limit mode on acoustic guitars etc can be perfect.

[Marogru]

I also use VM in comp mode much more then in Limit mode.
Slow attack, fast release and needle hitting around 1-2dB
I like to drive it quite hard and drive ad with it a little bit.
This is not only dynamics in my mastering chain.
Right now I often go ssl to Bettermaker to VM to DA.
SSL makes the glue, BM makes the EQ where needed, VM makes the volume and bit of distortion.

[Slug1]

Originally Posted by Adam Dempsey

In limit mode it starts at 4:1 then increases to 20:1 only from ~12dB of gain reduction onwards. It's not a hard limiter in the modern sense at all.
Although the knee is certainly softer in comp mode I find that too squishy under most settings for gain reduction in mastering, but a touch in limit mode on acoustic guitars etc can be perfect.

Cool. Have fun with it man. It's awesome kit. I've flipped between comp and limit, but always come back to limit for some reason. No right and wrong here. If your ears and your client's ears are digging the limiter 'sound' than by all means use it!

[Filthrill]

Originally Posted by Marogru

I also use VM in comp mode much more then in Limit mode.
Slow attack, fast release and needle hitting around 1-2dB
I like to drive it quite hard and drive ad with it a little bit.
This is not only dynamics in my mastering chain.
Right now I often go ssl to Bettermaker to VM to DA.
SSL makes the glue, BM makes the EQ where needed, VM makes the volume and bit of distortion.

It's safe to say that ur stereo bus is pretty beastly. So u do: compression, EQ, compression. Sounds like this is for music that needs to be pretty damn loud. Been hearing good things about that Bettermaker.

[fossaree]

What I learned is that it's barely used in Limiter mode !

[fossaree]

Decided to take a picture of this beauty

[Marogru]

Originally Posted by Filthrill

It's safe to say that ur stereo bus is pretty beastly. So u do: compression, EQ, compression. Sounds like this is for music that needs to be pretty damn loud. Been hearing good things about that Bettermaker.

Thanks for kind words. If you are in CA, drop by to AES SF! We are making something new to show there.

Yep I work mostly on electronic music and Hip Hop.
When you have a nasty Dubstep Drop, you have to get some control over it
In this chain Veri Mu work more as a leveler and volume booster more then a comp, the needle never goes more up then 1,5...2 is rare.