DSD Korg MR-2000S

[HDTT]

Originally Posted by DSD_Mastering

We're using Algorithmix and Flux plugins at the higher rates. Works great!

Bruce do you use these plug ins in DSD post production because they have to be converted to PCM before they can be used so there would be DSD to DXD to DSD conversion correct?
This is also how Pyramix would handle it?
You wouldn't be able to use it in a Sonoma system because thats pure DSD editing?

[paulo m]

DXD explained:

http://www.merging.com/uploads/asset...ution_v3.5.pdf

A converter worth looking at for DXD/DSD:

http://www.merging.com/horus

[DSD_Mastering]

Originally Posted by HDTT

Bruce do you use these plug ins in DSD post production because they have to be converted to PCM before they can be used so there would be DSD to DXD to DSD conversion correct?
This is also how Pyramix would handle it?
You wouldn't be able to use it in a Sonoma system because thats pure DSD editing?

Yes, they are used in Pyramix and Seq/Samp.

Pyramix doesn't actually "convert" to PCM in a traditional way. When you want to edit a DSD file, you open the project as a DXD editing project. When you make an edit, it calculates the edit as 32/352.8

No plugins can be used in Sonoma. Even Sonoma converts the edits as 8-bit

[Petrus]

Originally Posted by HDTT

You wouldn't be able to use it in a Sonoma system because thats pure DSD editing?

Just about nothing can be done to DSD without converting it to some sort of PCM first. Even Sonoma does that, at DSD sample rate though, but they try to hide the fact in their marketing.

[Petrus]

Originally Posted by HDTT

Also do you lose a lot when you convert a DSD file from DSD to PCM then back to DSD?

You end up with the same result (or slightly worse) than recording at the PCM sample rate at the first place... So the DSD recording is useless from the quality standpoint, if any editing (mixing & EQ etc.) is done to it.

[Bob Olhsson]

The original idea was that analog signal processing would be employed.

[HDTT]

Originally Posted by paulo m

DXD explained:

http://www.merging.com/uploads/asset...ution_v3.5.pdf

A converter worth looking at for DXD/DSD:

Merging Technologies

The problem is can you find a i/o card that can handle the resolution that's under 5k.

[DSD_Mastering]

Originally Posted by HDTT

The problem is can you find a i/o card that can handle the resolution that's under 5k.

Horus is ethernet using the Ravenna protocol

[HDTT]

Originally Posted by DSD_Mastering

Horus is ethernet using the Ravenna protocol

But the Ravenna protocol is only used by Pyramix/Merging

[DGaines]

Originally Posted by HDTT

But the Ravenna protocol is only used by Pyramix/Merging

RAVENNA - Partners - Partner Companies

[HDTT]

Originally Posted by DGaines

RAVENNA - Partners - Partner Companies

Still very limited

[string6theory]

Originally Posted by Petrus

You end up with the same result (or slightly worse) than recording at the PCM sample rate at the first place... So the DSD recording is useless from the quality standpoint, if any editing (mixing & EQ etc.) is done to it.

I would, respectfully, disagree with this. I've used the Korg MR1000 for several years, and 2 Korg MR2000S units for the last couple years (linked via spdf). This includes many, many AudioGate SRC's from 5.6MHz to my standard PT (LE) 48k/24 rates for editing.

Perhaps the retained quality (I hear) it's partly due to the "off-line" AudioGate conversion, or perhaps the algos, or both. But, I definitely think the extra time/steps required to convert and import the original DSD capture to PCM is well worth it in many cases.


However, I will add that my PCM setup is not "mastering" grade (I'm not a mastering engineer like you fine gents) but it is well implemented with 2 Apogee Rosetta 200's. I'm able to easily compare both PCM capture and DSD capture with the following method;

_____________________________

I use 2 API 8200A line mixers, with mirrored, balanced transformer outputs. All my tracking channels (pres/eq/comps, etc.) feed into the 1st 8200A and all my FX channels (verbs, eventides, etc.) receiving solos or sends from the 1st 8200A, feed into the 2nd 8200A. So, I may easily audition and blend original (dry) tracks with effected tracks in PT. It's a similar process for me between tracking and also sending DAW mix-down tracks.


The 1st 8200A mirrored outputs are captured by both (the 1st) Rosetta 200 and (the 1st) Korg MR2000S at the same time.

The 2nd 8200A mirrored outputs are captured by both (the 2nd) Rosetta 200 and (the 2nd) Korg MR2000S at the same time.

This setup allows me to easily capture and ompare both PCM (48/24) and DSD (5.6/1) and also the AudioGate conversions between the two formats.

______________________________


I do find that, in many cases, it's well worth the extra time to do the conversions. This is especially true for tracks that include OD/distorted guitars. I'm always floored by the quality of DSD (5.6MHz) guitar capture. I originally experienced this with the MR1000, which is why I went the extra mile to incorporate the 2 MR2000S recorders in my setup.

I'm a long time guitar player, with an ear tuned and refined to hear the subtle tones/distortions from my playing through many different (stellar) tube amps.

The Korg DSD capture at 5.6MHz always sounds the closet to the original source material (vs. the Apogees). This includes mix-down tracks. And, additional sound quality is retained in the off-line SRC conversion to PCM, but it's obviously not exactly the same (IMHO).


Warmest Regards,

[paulo m]

The Horus can be used in Ravenna or standalone mode.

In standalone mode you can interface it using a MADI or AES card for analogue conversion or digital transcoding between MADI/AES.
But most cards do not allow DXD/DSD resolutions, neither most Daws, so it´s in fact a niche market.

The nice touch about the Horus converter, even for non Pyramix users, is the fact that you can connect your MAC or PC, regardless of the native software you use, via a simple ethernet cable. This is done using ASIO or Coreaudio drivers that Merging will be launching soon.

For Protools HDX or HD Native users, the standalone mode is achieved via AVID MADI HD or AVID HD I/O (AES version) for example.
Then you can benefit from the conversion possibilities that the Horus offers in a slim 2U box, including mic preamps.