Mastering Room (Basic no frills setup)

[hgen]

This question is for Mastering Engineers.

Assuming I have a decent room, monitors, mastering software eg sequoia and decent ad/da, what else do I require or what is essential for me to do professional mastering?

What would be a basic system ie outboard gear, to get the job done? I'm not saying 'cheapest', I mean what are the entry level components necessary to get pro results? I've been looking at Mastering consoles, multiband comps, EQ's etc and I'm completely confused as to what is actually necessary and what is over the top? If a basic list to kit out a small mastering room could be suggested it would be a great help thanks!!

[Virtalahde]

Give me one good parametric EQ and one good compressor (not a multiband) and I could work all day. Given the monitoring & converters are right..

[bob katz]

Originally Posted by hgen

This question is for Mastering Engineers.

Assuming I have a decent room, monitors, mastering software eg sequoia and decent ad/da, what else do I require or what is essential for me to do professional mastering?

What would be a basic system ie outboard gear, to get the job done? I'm not saying 'cheapest', I mean what are the entry level components necessary to get pro results? I've been looking at Mastering consoles, multiband comps, EQ's etc and I'm completely confused as to what is actually necessary and what is over the top? If a basic list to kit out a small mastering room could be suggested it would be a great help thanks!!

What's your budget? I think a good question would be "no frills outboard within a certain budget". Are we assuming you're starting from scratch with no plugins and no outboard at all, but optimized acoustics and monitors? (usually it happens in the reverse :-)

BK

[hgen]

Hi Bob, Yes I'm thinking outboard gear mainly, and I want spend the least ammount of money as possible just enough tools to get the job done well. Something that any Mastering Engineer can just walk in and not feel they have to compromise even though it's not top shelf.

I'm not thinking Digital in the Box Mastering Plugins although any thoughts about that would be great too?

What were ppl using before digital, that's maybe another way to approach it?

[bob katz]

Originally Posted by hgen

Hi Bob, Yes I'm thinking outboard gear mainly, and I want spend the least ammount of money as possible just enough tools to get the job done well. Something that any Mastering Engineer can just walk in and not feel they have to compromise even though it's not top shelf.

I'm not thinking Digital in the Box Mastering Plugins although any thoughts about that would be great too?

What were ppl using before digital, that's maybe another way to approach it?

Gotta know your budget, or this would become a totally dimensionless, open-ended question. How much money are you willing to spend on outboard analog gear?

BK

[crna59]

Originally Posted by hgen

I'm not thinking Digital in the Box Mastering Plugins although any thoughts about that would be great too?
What were ppl using before digital, that's maybe another way to approach it?

There's "people who Master" here in the Northwest that have less than optimal acoustics/monitoring and they use maybe an L2 Hardware with plug-ins and claim to be busy all the time!

Regards,

[hgen]

Originally Posted by bob katz

Gotta know your budget, or this would become a totally dimensionless, open-ended question. How much money are you willing to spend on outboard analog gear?

BK

Ok Bob, I guess my question is what sort of Budget do I need? Can I do it under 15K usd?

I have very little idea as to what 'serious' entry level outboard gear goes for? I mean what do I absolutely need for outboard and what do you recommend for somebody starting out?

1. Compressor?
2. EQ?
3. Mastering Console?
4. Multiband?
5. Limiter?
6. etc?

Like I said before, assuming I have a decent room, monitors, mastering software eg sequoia and decent ad/da, what else do I require or what is essential for me to start to do professional mastering? That way I can see what it's gonna cost me or see if there are cheaper viable alternatives?

[Darius van H]

You need 2 compressors - one vari-mu type and one faster......plus one very nice EQ. On top of this you need some kind of monitoring console - Cranesong's Avocet would fit the bill nicely.

The way to research this would be to visit some mastering websites and see what gear they're using.

Then visit the "Google" webpage and do a search, for example: Manley Massive Passive price

[bob katz]

Originally Posted by hgen

Ok Bob, I guess my question is what sort of Budget do I need? Can I do it under 15K usd?

I have very little idea as to what 'serious' entry level outboard gear goes for? I mean what do I absolutely need for outboard and what do you recommend for somebody starting out?

1. Compressor?
2. EQ?
3. Mastering Console?
4. Multiband?
5. Limiter?
6. etc?

Like I said before, assuming I have a decent room, monitors, mastering software eg sequoia and decent ad/da, what else do I require or what is essential for me to start to do professional mastering? That way I can see what it's gonna cost me or see if there are cheaper viable alternatives?

I much prefer to answer questions that indicate you've done a lot of your homework, that you've looked at outboard gear from manufacturers mentioned in this forum, including Manley, Cranesong, Pendulum, Weiss, Z Systems, TC Electronic and some others, made some preliminary decisions, and already gotten prices. Otherwise I might as well build your studio for you, for free!

BK

[hgen]

You don't want to tell me about what outboard gear to use because I don't know what outboard gear to use? Erm ok.

Darius,

I looked at your website and you have some pretty top shelf outboard gear. Are their any cheaper viable alternatives, do I have to spend the big bucks or can I jump in at the shallow end somewhere?

I can Master Digitally really well now and I'm slowly coming to grips with FFT Analysis and getting things balanced and I need to start buying analogue gear to go to the next level but I can't afford the top shelf atm.

I can build a GSSL Comp Clone(I used to build studio's/tech, Neve installations that sort of thing)

The only things I have heard about are the current advertised brands eg cranesong, manley ,weiss etc which I can't afford(divorced-lost everything, starting again from scratch). What were studio's using 20 years ago before this recent technological onslaught of modern outboard? Or what is the cost effective route?

Any help or links would be appreciated thanks!

[lucey]

Originally Posted by hgen

This question is for Mastering Engineers.

Assuming I have a decent room, monitors, mastering software eg sequoia and decent ad/da, what else do I require or what is essential for me to do professional mastering?

What would be a basic system ie outboard gear, to get the job done? I'm not saying 'cheapest', I mean what are the entry level components necessary to get pro results?

Sounds like you have the needed gear:

Room, monitors, AD DA, Sequoia, Software.


What do you lack?

[Virtalahde]

Originally Posted by hgen

I can build a GSSL Comp Clone

I just got rid of mine, don't miss it at all. I think it was an instant "boooriiing!" -machine.

[Capstan Cappy]

Originally Posted by Virtalahde

Give me one good parametric EQ and one good compressor (not a multiband) and I could work all day. Given the monitoring & converters are right..

think you mean two eq's?

[Virtalahde]

Originally Posted by Capstan Cappy

think you mean two eq's?

Well, now that I also have a lovely passive EQ with a beefy Neve-ish gain make-up (with a tad cleaner output iron), I would not give it away. The 5k broad band gets too much use here..

As always, it's nice to have variation. But I do think that a good ME can work with a very limited set if forced to. Make it two EQ's and two compressors and you're on a good roll..

[MASSIVE Master]

Originally Posted by Virtalahde

I just got rid of mine, don't miss it at all. I think it was an instant "boooriiing!" -machine.

I have a very sweet, modified (MCI416 transformers on the output and several electronic tweaks) SSL 4000 clone here and I couldn't agree more.

I rent it out to other studios FAR more often than I use it here (which is nearly never).

I agree that it makes a mean buss comp *while mixing* but after the fact, it's really not my cup 'o tea...

[Virtalahde]

Originally Posted by MASSIVE Master

I agree that it makes a mean buss comp *while mixing* but after the fact, it's really not my cup 'o tea...

Agreed, in the hands of a mixing engineer, cool.

Mine was modified too, no input buffer (straight into VCA through resistor), two-mode hi pass filter in side chain (took it a bit closer where I wanted it to be) but still the bypass switch was the most used feature. Or was it "life/no life" -switch?

[hgen]

Anyone recommend a vari mu comp and eq unit that won't break the bank?

[bob katz]

Originally Posted by Virtalahde

Agreed, in the hands of a mixing engineer, cool.

Mine was modified too, no input buffer (straight into VCA through resistor), two-mode hi pass filter in side chain (took it a bit closer where I wanted it to be) but still the bypass switch was the most used feature. Or was it "life/no life" -switch?

I agree. It's a squasher, not a powermaker. EVERY time I've had the opportunity to get a "non-SSL'ed" mix from a client versus his version with the SSL, I've been able to beat it here with my tools, and that sold them on not using it. I find its time constants are just not right. Now, a client of mine I trust told me this story:

He was at Bernie Grundman's and Bernie had this custom compressor. My client said, I recognize that sound, it's an SSL." At first Bernie didn't own up to it, but then he did. Reportedly he had the time constants adjusted. Bernie's work is fantastic, if he has a modified SSL, then he has magic hands.

BK

[Anderson]

Originally Posted by hgen

Anyone recommend a vari mu comp and eq unit that won't break the bank?

Mastering is serious, you need serious gear and a serious environment (assuming you want it to be professionnal)

There is no cheap serious gear - if it were the case then lots of us would be happy not having to 3/4K$ per unit.

Don't expect your mastering eq to be less than 5k$, each compressor to be less than 4k$.

There are lots of Vari-Mu type of units, type a research on GS or else and you will get the names and models and opinions...

And room acoustics. This is your first objective: getting a good room designed by someone competent. Otherwise, what's the use of having high-end gear if you can't use it properly?

Cheers

[DeeDrive]

Originally Posted by hgen

Anyone recommend a vari mu comp and eq unit that won't break the bank?

You could probably get a secondhard Manley vari-mu for around $2400, that's how much I paid for mine. EQ is tougher, cus a great mastering EQ is $$$. I have heard of mastering engineers that have found plug in EQ's pretty useful in mastering, I know a mastering guy that uses a Waves Q10 for all his mastering, and he's got a GML parametrics sitting unused in the rack. (I can't say this would be my decision, however). You could check out the Waves mastering bundle, but a great hardware EQ is always the best route.

[lucey]

Originally Posted by hgen

Anyone recommend a vari mu comp and eq unit that won't break the bank?

The Manley Mu is weak in the low end. Check out the Phoenix or Requisite L2M ... maybe with a Weiss EQ. Clean EQ, color comp.

[hgen]

That's very helpful guys thanks!thumbsup

[hgen]

Originally Posted by rufus13

All that pulls up is Gears and Years.

Mastering is about careful listening, not about Gear Slutting. Even if BK built a studio for free...

Cheers.

Karl

Yeah I know, my hardest problem with mixes is eq, especially getting things brighter and warm without it souding harsh, getting the high end right is always my biggest hurdle.

This is what I like so far,
Avocet
TFPro P38
L2 Hardware
Siemans W295b eq??

I have a pair of Siemans W295b eq(they need recapping etc), could I use that for eq or is it too limited or something else in that vein like the older german broadcast eq's. When serviced are they up to it sonically?

[Ben F]

If you buy cheap you will buy twice, and you won't be satisfied by the results.

Remember that clients come to you because of your expertice and also a room/gear that they can't afford. Otherwise they would just master it in their own studio...plenty of recording/mixing studios have decent outboard.

Minimum setup would be a properly treated room and mid field monitors, Sequioa or similar, a decent D/A and A/D, plus at least one analogue EQ/Compressor to get started. You could start with software limiting, and save the money on an L2. None of this gear is inexpensive.

The Cranesong STC-8 is a very versitle compressor. If you want loads of colour a Vari-mu is nice, but too coloured for my liking most of the time, plus sluggish in the low end.

For an EQ a Massive Passive is very good for the money, and will add the colour that plug-ins lack.

Best thing to do is visit other studios and try the gear yourself. All you will get on forums is opinons (which are valid), but you have to know for yourself what is right, and have confidence in the decision, because other poeple will be trusting your judgement and paying good money for it!

[hgen]

Budget Mastering Analog Outboard Gear....

Avocet
TFPro P38
L2 Hardware
Neumann W495 EQ

These seem to be great value according to my research. Any comments?

[Darius van H]

What monitors / amp will you be using?...it might make more sense to invest in this direction and master with plugins.

[hgen]

Orpheus Nearfields and Speakers I built (NS10 Size with Vifa Drivers and Tweeters, Crossovers hand made with high spec polypropelene caps and hand wound inductors) and Yamaha Amp atm.

[Darius van H]

Originally Posted by hgen

Orpheus Nearfields

Never heard of 'em.....gotta Link?

[bob katz]

Originally Posted by hgen

Budget Mastering Analog Outboard Gear....

Avocet
TFPro P38
L2 Hardware
Neumann W495 EQ

These seem to be great value according to my research. Any comments?

Now you're asking some specific questions!


Avocet... my favorite monitoring controller. It's not a processor so I'm not sure why it's in your list.

I only know the L2 Hardware of the rest of the list, and I used to use it all the time before I got my TC 6000 brickwall, but to be honest, when used conservatively, both limiters are reasonably equivalent. You don't have to use the L2 hardware, as far as I'm concerned, the plugin is equivalent. HOWEVER, I am convinced all the digital compressor/limiters perform better at double sample rates so it's often very inconvenient to do so with the plugin. That's one reason I have 7 pieces of digital hardware that can compress and peak limit at 96K! For the curious, that's four engines in the TC, the L2, and two Weiss DS1-MK2s.

[hgen]

Originally Posted by Darius van H

Never heard of 'em.....gotta Link?

http://www.orpheusaudio.com.au/?d=about&p=professional