Would -16db rms still sound "mastered"?

[Greg Reierson]

It's been defined a million ways on a million GS posts.

Mastering is creating a master for a target audience and/or a target format, probably involving processing, definitely involving careful listening and quality control. Setting the loudness is one of many parts of that process.

If it's for CD, -16 for jazz or classical would be pretty normal. Green Day would egg your house. OTOH, if it's for radio or digital streaming, Green Day at -16 would sound better (at least to me) than their CDs.

[Nonlinear]

Let me re-phrase my question: if my mix wasn't "typically" loud would there be a tendency for an outsider to think it hadn't been mastered, i.e., wasn't finished?

[Franco]

Originally Posted by Nonlinear

Let me re-phrase my question: if my mix wasn't "typically" loud would there be a tendency for an outsider to think it hadn't been mastered, i.e., wasn't finished?

Depends on the "outsider"! One Outsider might say "Wow, you were too cheap to pay for mastering, huh?" Another might say "Woah dude, this sounds...uh, I don't know...not loud?" and another might say "Right on, your mix sounds great and boy, I can now listen to your album right next to my Kool & The Gang albums!"

OR - if you're confident in the quality of your mix and don't want to process it further, you're allowed to not care how "loud" it is.

As a side note, I wish more people would realize that laptops and ipods don't have balls when it comes to amplifying audio, and that buying good amps and gear that has good quality volume knobs is actually a cool thing to do.

[wado1942]

I'd say "good for you". If anybody asks, just say "iTunes's 'Soundcheck' puts it at this level any way." I have plenty of rock CDs that are -20 and even -24dB and they sound fantastic compared to my newer "competitive" albums. If you're sending it to a major label, they'll insist on rerecording it from scratch, using their loan shark system. Small labels generally just want you to be happy with what you send them.

[Greg Reierson]

Originally Posted by Nonlinear

Let me re-phrase my question: if my mix wasn't "typically" loud would there be a tendency for an outsider to think it hadn't been mastered, i.e., wasn't finished?

Probably. If it sounds good everywhere you play it, it's finished. Knowing when it sounds good - and when it doesn't - is the trick.

[Waltz Mastering]

Originally Posted by Nonlinear

Let me re-phrase my question: if my mix wasn't "typically" loud would there be a tendency for an outsider to think it hadn't been mastered, i.e., wasn't finished?

If it was typically 4 to 6 or 7 dB quieter than what was in rotation, I think people would take notice and at least be aware that they'd be cranking the volume a bit more to get to the same listening level of some contemporary stuff.

That said, I don't think that would indicate that it wasn't mastered if it still sounded good. I have no problem listening to older cd's that are typically in the 12-16 range and then putting in something from the 2000's

[lucey]

Thriller is what? -18 to -20??

Originally Posted by Nonlinear

Let me re-phrase my question: if my mix wasn't "typically" loud would there be a tendency for an outsider to think it hadn't been mastered, i.e., wasn't finished?

Level and freq balance inconsistency such that it sounded like mixes.

A group of mixes can sound mastered but that's rare. Mixing is about one song from parts. Mastering is about one record from parts. As the record becomes more and more "mastered sounding" each single gets better and better. If you're good.

[Owen Gillett]

Just to state the obvious, -16 rms does not necessarily mean it has more dynamic range. It could still have lame transients and be totally overcompressed.

I think a CD would be judged to be mastered if the frequency balance is appropriate for the style of music and that the tracks hang together well.

As others have mentioned, this should be more the case as we move on to rms matching software for playback and hooray for that. As much as I personally lament the moving away from CDs, I think it is great that this sort of software will pull back the veil on masters so to speak.

Best,

Owen Gillett