Decreasing bit resolution while using digital levelers? - Page 2 - Gearslutz.com Gearslutz.com
 


All Advertisers
Go Back   Gearslutz.com > The Forums > Mastering forum

Decreasing bit resolution while using digital levelers?
Topic: New Reply New Reply Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 25th August 2012   #31
Lives for gear
 
kevin nowhow's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2009
Location: Athens GR
Posts: 825

Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiop View Post
Loudnes war again? Or do you mean the material peaks should top at -3dBFS to 0dBFS?
/Peter
I'm sure he meant average loudness by 75%, with peaks being able to accommodate the full dynamic range.


The anti-Loudness War scenario though scares me a bit.Sure, maximizing everything defeats the purpose of music but I can't help but think that a totalitarian "turn everything down" approach can have the same effect.Music should be about self expression.If one feels that one's work should be really compressed & squashed then I believe that one should be able to do so without having us 'scientists' telling him/her they are weirdos who belong in a music psychiatric institute...
kevin nowhow is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 25th August 2012   #32
Lives for gear
 
Joined: Mar 2008
Location: Sweden
Posts: 4,131

Average loudness of 75% (why use percentage?) equals approx. -3dBFS which means we have 3dB to peaks. I generally prefer more dynamic music than that. :-)

But of course I agree with you about freedom of artistic expression.


/Peter
Audiop is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 26th August 2012   #33
Gear maniac
 
FabienTDR's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2012
Location: Frankfurt/Germany

Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiop View Post
Loudnes war again? Or do you mean the material peaks should top at -3dBFS to 0dBFS?

Many DAC's have poor performacne close to 0dBFS so staying at -10dBFS would make sense. OTOH an occsional peak that hits close to 0dBFS will not cause problem for a typical listener.

/Peter
Yes, the peaks should hit the highest levels are possible. I'm well aware of the diffuse "don't overload the AD/DA's analogue circuitry" arguments floating around the web since years. IMHO, this is not a black or white discussion.

You can't deny the simple fact that *not using* the full scale also means you are not using the potential of your AD or DA. In case a ADA manufacturer was stupid enough to ignore potential overloads of the analogue circuitry in his design, don't use his products! Such "near full scale" problems are maybe relevant to old and/or very very cheap DAs. I never saw a professional DA having problems with the conversion a full scale signal. It's their job, and trivial for manufacturers to give the final amp a dozen dB more headroom.

Not saying it's a good idea to record "hot" like in the old 16bit days, there are good reasons to leave generous headroom during recording. Especially since everyone uses 24bit for recording. But a -10dBFS recording will definitely be captured with greater fidelity than -20dBFS. This is clearly audible, measurable and provable too.

Just try to create 4-6 successive copies (playback, recording,playback, recording,...) of you favourite CD. Do it -1dB below the full scale and compare to the same thing with generous -20dB. The quality difference becomes very apparent with the second a third recording cycle. The fifth or sixth really sounds like an 8bit recording vs a proper recording.

I'm not really sure how far all this relates to loudness war. Isn't that more about brutish clipper/limiter abuse?
__________________
Fabien from Tokyo Dawn Records
Check out my audio processors over at the Tokyo Dawn Labs, they're made with love!
FabienTDR is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 26th August 2012   #34
Lives for gear
 
kevin nowhow's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2009
Location: Athens GR
Posts: 825

Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiop View Post
Average loudness of 75% (why use percentage?) equals approx. -3dBFS which means we have 3dB to peaks. I generally prefer more dynamic music than that. :-)
/Peter
Oh yeah, absolutely!However, are you sure about that calculation?In theory, we have 144dB of DR in 24-bit afterall.
kevin nowhow is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 26th August 2012   #35
Lives for gear
 
Joined: Mar 2008
Location: Sweden
Posts: 4,131

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin nowhow View Post
Oh yeah, absolutely!However, are you sure about that calculation?In theory, we have 144dB of DR in 24-bit afterall.
There's a reason we use a log scale describing sound pressure level. If 100% is full scale (0dBFS) then -6dBFS is 50%.

We also only have approx 140dB in the digital domain. In the real world top notch converters give you 110-120dB DR or so.


/Peter
Audiop is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 27th August 2012   #36
Lives for gear
 
kevin nowhow's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2009
Location: Athens GR
Posts: 825

Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiop View Post
There's a reason we use a log scale describing sound pressure level. If 100% is full scale (0dBFS) then -6dBFS is 50%.

We also only have approx 140dB in the digital domain. In the real world top notch converters give you 110-120dB DR or so.


/Peter
Didn't realize you were talking logs...all ok.Decibels are measured logarithmically but i assumed you were talking about the 6dB per bit & the theoretical (roughly)140dB's of 24bit digital.Well, giving percentages was just an example given so yeah, it's nothing of a big deal to keep talking about it, you're right.
kevin nowhow is offline  
Reply With Quote
New Reply New Reply Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook  Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter  Submit Thread to LinkedIn LinkedIn 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Similar Threads
Thread Thread starter Forum Replies Last Post
Bit Crushing plugin? derker Music Computers 9 18th February 2013 07:30 PM
Anyone know why bouncing digitally from Protools to digital tape sounds better? Riddler So much gear, so little time! 18 30th January 2013 12:41 AM
LCD Monitor Resolution Problem GearGeek Music Computers 6 1st November 2012 05:48 PM
fxpansion using BitTorrent to their advantage e-cue Music Computers 3 10th December 2007 11:57 AM
Protools Question: how to tell RMS level Nu Mixer Music Computers 1 18th June 2007 09:56 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 06:26 PM.

Home - Search Forum - Contact Us - Terms Of Use / Privacy Policy - Advertise on Gearslutz - All Advertisers - Top
 
 
Powered by vBulletin®
Gearslutz.com LTD - UK Company Number 7597610.
Registered Office - 35 Ballards Lane, London, N3 1XW.
Hosted by Nimbus Hosting.

By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies.

SEO by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.