DAW towers

[Thor]

Mac Pro. Quiet enough to have in the studio, but in reality you really need a machine room or isolation cabinet for the machine. We have a dedicated machine room outside of the studio. It's really the best way to do it, IMHO.

Still, the Mac Pro is whisper quiet. Can't say I'm thrilled about the latest (barely noticeable) upgrades, but it's a very nice machine.

Thor

[da goose]

I always build my own computers. Sounds like a lot of work and hard to do for someone without any knowledge but it really is simple. It's a bit like Lego actually.
I have my computer in a case that i have for over 10 years but i still use it because it's really thick material and i have it dampened with extra bitumen layers. So the case is quiet, but that's not it. PSU (powersupply) is a noisemaker so choose a PSU that is silent (zalman has nice PSU's but there are way more)
Don't use the standard CPU cooler, that is always noisy. Use a BIG cooler with a BIG fan. A big fan will spin less then a small fan for the same airflow so more silent. Fans are also important, Pabst has some nice silent fans but i know there are others that are maybe even more quiet.
Don't overclock! You really won't be needing that little bit of extra CPU power, just stick to the standard speed and it will stay way cooler = less noisy fans needed.
Harddrives are also noisemakers.. If you want the 100% quite route, go for SSD. Not only is it a LOT faster, it's 100% silent because it doesn't have moving parts. If you need a lot of diskspace, then go get a NAS (i love my synology!) with big disks and store the data there after the project is done and put the NAS somewhere else /in a different room. The SSD will be big enough without a doubt.

If you buy an of the shelf computer it will never be as quiet as one you build yourself. For most people it won't matter if it's a bit noisy and so they can use cheaper parts to build it. We want it as silent as possible and are willing to pay for that.

Building computers yourself is also fun!
If you google for silent computer store you will find quite a lot of shops that specialize in parts/computers that are silent.

[SASMastering]

I have built PC's in the past, they worked fine. The issue is time, if you got it build it, takes a 1/2 a day to a day I guess if it's your first and you have prepared well. Bolting bits on is the easy bit. Knowing if your HD is dead or a motherboard manufacturing fault is stopping the boot at BIOS is the kind of thing you need to account for.

Last machine i7 system I bought from a DAW/Pro Audio PC supplier simply because I did not have time and it was around £300.00 more than a normal fast PC. Very glad I did it cause the machine rocks, faultless performance and stability and there is almost always a "gotcha" with a self build even when you have researched. I will buy from the same company next time round. I recommend Seasonic X series PSU's. (I specced this as a change from their standard DAW)

Much the same as our line of work, it's worth paying a professional to do an excellent job. On the other hand if you have an itch to build one yourself it might just be you need to scratch for the 'done it !' factor.

[wado1942]

Thanks for the advice. I should elaborate for clarity purposes.

My previous system, I built myself, but that was about eight years ago and I've gotten horribly out of touch with the technology. My current system was put together for me by an acquaintance. It has a huge CPU heat sink that vents directly to the outside world through a sort of plastic cage w/ 80mm fan. The PSU is an oddball proprietary thing at the bottom of the case (no room at the top) and uses 2x 60mm fans. There's sporadic electronic noise I believe to be caused by PSU switching. Though I've figured out how to isolate a lot of that, I still fear it'll show its ugly head at just the wrong time.
I potentially have the ability to put the tower in the next room (a break room for clients) but can't do that right away, due to having to figure out how to run everything through the walls.

I can't afford to replace all my hardware AND software, especially at Mac's prices, so that's out of the question.

[Thor]

Hi Stephen,

I used to think that way about Macs, many years ago. Spec out a MP against a similar machine from whoever and I think you'll see that the price difference isn't really an issue anymore. On top of that, every time MS releases a new version of Windows you need a new computer to run all the code they've added, whereas with OS X (in my experience) every new OS is better optimized and usually results in the machine running faster, resulting in a longer useful life of the machine and lower TCO. Add in the fact that the OS gets out of your way and lets you get on with your work instead of jumping in your face trying to "help" with wizard this and that, and productivity is increased.

At least my pov and experience. I built quite a few PCs from scratch and would do so today if I was going to go that route. It's not brain surgery, after all. After using Macs (and especially OS X vs Win) I really wouldn't want the grief of going back. YMMV. Just an idea.

Thor

[Jerry Tubb]

Plus one on the Mac Pro Tower.

Mine is rock solid and whisper quiet.

Intel inside as well.

JT

[teknatronik]

all great and good, but price vs price I could build a pc speced the same as a mac for half what mac cost...

[Renoized]

I'm siding with the custom builders, you can pick components that suit you, not having to search around for a pre-built system to meet your requirements. You also get a HELL of a lot more bang for your buck!

Search up quiet cases and PSUs, you won't want something like my case with massive fans everywhere (I know, I know, bad for sound but I can live with it!), you should be able to find information on the noise of everything in the tech specs.

[teknatronik]

Originally Posted by Renoized

I'm siding with the custom builders, you can pick components that suit you, not having to search around for a pre-built system to meet your requirements. You also get a HELL of a lot more bang for your buck!

Search up quiet cases and PSUs, you won't want something like my case with massive fans everywhere (I know, I know, bad for sound but I can live with it!), you should be able to find information on the noise of everything in the tech specs.

funny thing, i hve two 120mm fans you just dont hear, the loudest prt of my cheap daw build is my chubby fingers hittin the keys, lol.

[Renoized]

Originally Posted by teknatronik

funny thing, i hve two 120mm fans you just dont hear, the loudest prt of my cheap daw build is my chubby fingers hittin the keys, lol.

230mm on the side, 120mm on the back, 140mm on the front... yeah. Red LED ones too, I'm a sucker for the glowing lights. Looks awesome! I just tune it out after a while...

[teknatronik]

Originally Posted by Renoized

230mm on the side, 120mm on the back, 140mm on the front... yeah. Red LED ones too, I'm a sucker for the glowing lights. Looks awesome! I just tune it out after a while...

dang bro! you got the artic in there. maybe just lose the noisiest one.

[Renoized]

It doesn't need fans that big, it's a gaming tower designed for people who want to overclock their system but I just like the look of it. It's under the desk so I don't tend to hear much of the noise, plus I can't be bother taking the thing apart. :p

[Babaluma]

Carillon Audio PC here, in a rack mount case.

[Red Mastering]

Where is your computer?
it's pc based,
you can build your own, get 4u rack case,
all fans by Papst (quite expensive, but literally noiseless)
important idea is to have constant air movement inside the box,
there's massive 120mm fan sucking air in and 2x90mm fans pushing hot air out,
passive graphic is easy to get,
when you buy cpu, always get proper cooling -
around 100$ maybe bit more you got massive radiator and quiet fan,
all together makes it completely noiseless

[Jerry Tubb]

Originally Posted by teknatronik

all great and good, but price vs price I could build a pc speced the same as a mac for half what mac cost...

No doubt... If you're PC centric.

Rolling your own is a great solution if you know what you're doing.

99% of the time I'm running Mac OS X

Bought mine slightly used for 66% of MSRP.

Just go to Windoze to run PlexTools.

Best, JT

[John Moran]

Rule #1 is to choose what application(s) you wish to run then acquire the best platform for that use.

After that, you have many more options in the PC world, both in applications and hardware at substantially better price points.

In terms of current technology, Mac Pro is simply way behind the times.
In terms of cost, Mac is way over the top in what you get for the dollars spent.
With Mac, you buy off the shelf only what they offer at premium prices.

None of that matters if you absolutely must run a Mac only application.

I blew off the Mac world a long time ago and am much the better for it.

In PC world, there are many options from off the shelf manufacturers who make completely viable, solid machines at very competitive prices.

Then there are the custom manufacturers who specialize in high performance PC for specific applications, like ADK and Sonica amongst others. They offer rack mount chassis, built in RAID arrays and many other system options useful to the professional.

Then you can build your own PC hardware much like a Jedi builds his own light sabre and it is all yours inside and out exactly as you desire.

Everyone has to decide for themselves but always start with Rule #1.

In answer to the original question, my current big rig has a Sonica PC build in a Lian Li 19" rack mount chassis. Quick swap system drive, very quiet, very powerful. The remote rig has a Sonica laptop which is basically an Asus C-90 reasonably tricked out.
When Sonic Solutions became untenable due to product flakiness with SSHD and abysmally slow development (which continues to this day), I went the Sequoia route and couldn't be happier.

[taturana]

Originally Posted by Thor

every time MS releases a new version of Windows you need a new computer to run all the code they've added, whereas with OS X (in my experience) every new OS is better optimized and usually results in the machine running faster,
Thor

thor, not to get into this pc/mac thing, but win 7 is quite fast and light... faster than xp and vista... and in some things faster than os/x also so i guess you're not correct here... i'd say that it's the best thing to have happened to win computers...

[teknatronik]

Originally Posted by taturana

thor, not to get into this pc/mac thing, but win 7 is quite fast and light... faster than xp and vista... and in some things faster than os/x also so i guess you're not correct here... i'd say that it's the best thing to have happened to win computers...

no question, i been on 7 since beta and never a crash or blue screen.

[ooohhh2]

There's a dedicated thread for pc build
the "today we build our studio pc"-thread
You must read it. I had no idea couple of weeks ago, now i know alot more after reading it, and lots of reviews of the components in the internet and some pc mags.

Here's my system now:


i7-2700k
Asus P8Z77-V LX
Samsung 830 128 GB
Samsung Spinpoint F3 1TB 7200 rpm + Sharkoon vibe fixer
Mushkin 1333MHz 16 GB RAM
Sytche Mugen 2 Rev.B Cooler
BeQuiet L8 530 Watt PSU 80+ Bronze
Cooltek Timaios (Case)
Exsys Firewire PCIe TI Chips
LiteOn DVD Burner
22' screen LG IPS225V

It's very quiet but, not completely silent. But i can turn the fans off when needed with the external fans knobs, very useful. 95% of the time i can't hear it anyway.

You don't need an SSD to make your HDD silent, something like Sharkoon Vibe Fixer does the magic:


However an SSD will boost your PC performance completely, it's a must these days IMHO.

BTW, with this new config, i have about 2-3ms round trip latency (at 64 sample, 96 khz, m-audio profire), and it's rock solid. No glitches with heavy VSTis use.
I spent about 1100 Euros total for the new system (must be cheaper if you build it yourself though) . It's hard to beat i guess.

[ORC]

My brother has been building my DAW's for many years. He really knows his stuff, and is very affordable. He will literally build you any machine you want. he knows all the best components, (especially for audio and video performance) and how well they work together. He is an electrical engineer by trade, but runs a small PC company on the side. PM me if you would like to contact him.

[misjah]

mac pro...in machine room though....anything that makes any noise goes outside the mastering room...dead quiet room is a must if you ask me

[teknatronik]

Originally Posted by misjah

mac pro...in machine room though....anything that makes any noise goes outside the mastering room...dead quiet room is a must if you ask me

it doesnt matter as much if your not mastering though, right?

[Cellotron]

For 15 some years I used to make a point to build my own DAW's from whatever were the premium components at the time - but at this point if all you really need is a box that primarily is working with a single stereo track at a time (or maybe a few stem tracks at most) while doing processing primarily in the analog realm - using separate computers to pitch and catch - then even a few year old cpu's and systems will do just fine if not fantastically.

Honestly - the needs of computing muscle for a studio mainly doing mastering is actually pretty minimal compared to what those doing gaming or video editing (or simply steak swinging about how great their computer is) would choose.
i.e. - I'm just running E8500 Core2 Duo CPU's in boxes running Win XP - one of them in a self built box I made 4 years ago - and another in a second hand Dell Optiplex 760 that I got recently for all of $200 and then maxed out - and it all works great. Sticking with the older boxes and older OS also allows me to continue to use the Soundscape Mixtreme192 and Lynx One PCI cards that I've used for digital i/o for years - and since all of this works great and since "upgrading" to other cards or boxes would just cost a bunch of cash but not really gain me any actual additional capabilities - it makes more sense to just keep what I already have. The app I use (SAWStudio) also works just as well on WinXP as it does on later Win OS's - so there's no need to change this either.

fwiw - my DAW's are used only for work for my studio though - I don't even have them connected to the net (as I have uploading/downloading, net surfing, and Quickbooks all handled by a separate dedicated office machine).

Regarding the OS wars and people's either fan-boy type of devotion to Mac or their often defensive "but I can do that too" Windows advocacy - I have to strongly agree with John Moran - choose the applications you wish to use FIRST - and then use the OS that works best (or at all) for these. Meaning if you choose Sequoia/Samplitude, or need to run Plextools or other CD error checking software - you're going to be dual booting into Windows on a Mac box anyway.

Finally - I strongly agree with this following article regarding choosing electronic equipment which can be easily maintained and keeping it for as long as possible as not only a sensible choice but also the most ethical decision in these things - Unfixable Computers Are Leading Humanity Down a Perilous Path | iFixit

Still - for personal use computers I can totally understand the motivations for choosing the shiniest latest and greatest stuff so you can feel like you're the slickest when you show it off to friends. But for mastering - at this point you don't really need much power relative to what can be cheaply gotten if you do the "heavy lifting" outside of the box anyway.

Anyhoo - I'm typing this on a 4 year old laptop a friend gave me for free that I brought back from the dead and maxed out and have now running Ubuntu 12.04 - to truly "think different". I've been finding that the recent actually human friendly Linux distros are definitely fun OS to play around with - if not quite ready for general DAW use if ease of setting up hardware or the widest choice for DAW software is your concern though.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[Jerry Tubb]

Originally Posted by John Moran

Rule #1 is to choose what application(s) you wish to run then acquire the best platform for that use.

Agreed John!

That's why I chose Sonic soundBlade HD and a Mac Pro with OS X.

For me, it works and sounds like buttah!

It's a matter of personal preference and individual workflow.

A few other folks like it as well for professional work:

http://www.sonicstudio.com/company/sonic_profiles.html

Best, JT

[misjah]

Originally Posted by teknatronik

it doesnt matter as much if your not mastering though, right?

since this is the mastering forum i assumed he was talking about a mastering room....production room might not be as critical but once you've worked in a "quiet" room and felt the difference there's no way back to a noisy environment.

[teknatronik]

Originally Posted by misjah

since this is the mastering forum i assumed he was talking about a mastering room....production room might not be as critical but once you've worked in a "quiet" room and felt the difference there's no way back to a noisy environment.

funny, I was wondering if he was aimed towards mixing or mastering, but your right, it is the mstering forum.

[John Moran]

One other topic that comes up in the puter discussions, as Steve Berson mentions, is the use of older hardware and legacy items. The ability to keep these dinosaurs going is an interesting drill itself. How strange is it in audio that we revere classic devices because of what they do sonically. Yet, even today, there are the huge discussions of good software tools and plugs that will be left behind in the transition of PT from TDM to AAX architecture and old sessions will not be able to be accurately recalled. The PT transition is just the most current example of the problem and it manifests in diverse ways.

Case in point, I have a G4 dual processor 450 Mac that served as the platform for a big MOTU rig and Digital Performer. That thing made a bunch of hit records in its day back last century (It's fun to say "last century" and mean it for real). The power supply has been replaced once already and is up for replacement again as the box is dead in the water at the moment.

And here is the problem under consideration - this machine was orphaned by Apple. It can never run any OS beyond Tiger because it's a Motorola CPU. Put in a new power supply and it's fine but at what point do you decide you are throwing money down a hole? There is a MOTU 2408 laying around here that used to live in this box and if it was put back together the thing could happily run DP 5, Barbabatch and other perfectly useful audio functions that it always did. It had last been serving as a general use Mac for email and such and there are loads of archived materials in Mac applications such as Eudora and Newswatcher, as well as the MS Office 2003 suite for Mac in addition to the older audio applications.

When the power supply croaked the second time, I said the hell with it and ponied up for new Mac Mini running Lion. Well, guess what? I can't resurrect any of those applications because compatibility with them ended with Leopard/Snow Leopard. The new Mac Mini isn't backward compatible with Leopard although there is supposed to be a hack to pull that off. Great... let's hack the new puter just to get back to where we were. What's wrong with this picture?

Meanwhile, I have an old Compaq laptop that is running Windoze Millennia and that dinosaur will boot, run and could conceivably be updated to a current Win OS or a Linux distro.

So what's my point here? Apple has bunged me twice and left a professional user behind with what would be perfectly fine machinery if they had opted to continue support for their legacy hardware and applications. It's three times if you count the OS9 to OSX transition that effectively killed my Sonic Solutions platform going forward and combined with the other SS issues at the time to push me to a different solution, ie Sequoia+Windoze. The Dell XPS Pentium that became that new platform replacing the Sonic+Mac was running Win XP at the time, Sequoia V7 and it would easily do a session today. Love'm or hate'm, you have to give MS a tip of the hat for sustaining backwards compatibly to a very large degree and light years ahead of how Apple has treated their customer base.

Does this mean a lot to someone considering a new machine for mastering? Probably not, given Rule #1, but it is something of a track record to consider when taking the long view of things. One can say the stuff has paid for itself, which it has, the stuff has been fully depreciated, which it has. You can say the same about a Pultec EQP-1A3 but those don't become doorstops.

The issue of being forced into unwanted upgrades and upgrades that leave working systems in the dust with no future is worth considering. Somewhere down the road, and in computer terms the road isn't that long, you can find yourself looking at required updates that leave you twisting in the breeze or unable to get back to something you may really want to get. Be aware that these things really do happen and that shiny bright machine of today may become a doorstop before you are realize it. Ask the TDM users about it. They've got a lot of money invested in hardware and software that is technically end of life, regardless of whether they bought it last year or 10 years ago and regardless of how useful it still may be. That is an all too common lesson with puters.

[SASMastering]

Out of interest, more than anything I needed a PC for music making at home so
I have simply taken a punt and bought an off the shelf i3 CPU pc from small manufacturer of office computers yesterday £370.00 delivered. I actually use one now as my internet pc and it has worked reliably for 2 years thus far and is also very quiet for an office pc. They use branded components only including ASUS motherboards. My plan is to run Cubase on it for fun making activities so I will let you know how I get on when I get round to configuring it.

It has the same motherboard as a reputable music pc supplier uses in one of their music machines so I have high hopes.

[jamesp]

One thing that I've done is to design my studio so that the computer sits outside. I don't have to worry about noise (although the current machine is way quieter than the old computer) and I just run long USB, Firewire, ADAT and SPDIF cables into the studio so that I can have things like CD drives, card readers and convertors in the studio. I've worked like this for around 10 years now and couldn't imagine the sound of a computer in the room with me.

James.