What's up with speaker cables?

[acorneau]

Do a search for "monster cable vs. coat hanger".

[Zownd]

Originally Posted by acorneau

Do a search for "monster cable vs. coat hanger".

I've seen this one.
so you are using coathangers?

[Rick Sutton]

12 gauge zip from Home Depot. Works for me.

[johnnyc]

When it comes to speaker cables, thickness is your friend.

[ORC]

Well, I've got about 8 grand in monitors. For cables I'm using a used pair by Transparent audio. I picked them up used at a High end audio joint here in town for about $200. I think they sold new for about $600. Many high end shops let customers trade in their old cables and gear for upgrades, then they resell the trade ins. The cables sound fine and will probably last me for ever. I don't know if they are any better than 12 gauge OFC stuff one can buy at the hardware store though.

[Zownd]

Originally Posted by Rick Sutton

12 gauge zip from Home Depot. Works for me.

Just found this link where they use 12 gauge and measure it against kimber cable. Then I think, if you can measure it, you might hear it.

perception - Do expensive, "premium" speaker cables actually make a difference? - Skeptics

I am truly amazed how big this cable business is?? 2500 for a cable is nothing

So, are we saying there is no merit to this at all?
Is it simply because audiophiles treat their system like babies and they want only the best... and if it is expensive and looks pretty it must be better?

[Jerry Tubb]

Originally Posted by Zownd

this one had to be started sooner or later?

Many threads on the topic in the various mastering forums over the years, including GS.

The general consensus is that high quality copper of a sufficient gauge does the job very nicely, without compromise.

You can spend many times more for audiophile cable, which may sound different but not necessarily better.

My general rule of thumb:

Spend no more on a pair of cables than you charge for an hour (or two) of mastering.

If the goal is to impress attending clients with blingy expensive cables, that's a different subject...

style over substance!

Best, JT

[Waltz Mastering]

Just checked... Marshall Sound Runner OFC 10 AWG/238 strands
Someone gave it to me a while ago, so I use it.

[Rick Sutton]

Originally Posted by Zownd

Just found this link where they use 12 gauge and measure it against kimber cable. Then I think, if you can measure it, you might hear it.

I've purchased and installed some audiophile speaker cables. You know, with the directional arrows and special construction. Didn't sound any different than 12 gauge to me. Granted I'm running pretty short cabling.

Also, the passive speakers aren't my mains. But hey, measure all you want!

[nosebleedaudio]

Originally Posted by Waltz Mastering

Just checked... Marshall Sound Runner OFC 10 AWG/238 strands
Someone gave it to me, so I use it.

I love that 8110 for the larger speakers, PMC IB1's..Not too much $$ either..

[aleatoric]

The main thing to strive for in a speaker cable is to keep conductivity high. The way this is accomplished is extremely simple, a thick gauge wire. Also, keep the cable length as short as you can (i.e. don't use a 20 foot cable if you only need an 8 foot cable). Just get some 10 AWG wire cut to your needed length, terminate if you desire (banana plugs, spades, etc.) and be done with it.

Relatively short cable runs and thick gauge wire eliminate any dampening effect that could be considered audible . It's when you start using say 18 AWG wire and doing 25 foot cable runs that you may run into problems. Never the less the price difference between different wire gauges is very small so it makes sense to me to spend the extra nickles on the thicker wire even if your cable run is short.

I personally have Belden 5T00UP 10 AWG cable with ultrasonically welded banana plugs that I bought from Blue Jean Cable which were made to my desired length. Really any 10 AWG cable will do and the ultrasonic welding of the banana plugs is not for a sonic reason, it's simply just a really robust way to attach banana plugs to wire. Less chance of erosion, less chance of a banana plug getting pulled loose, etc.

Worth noting I've not used my speaker cables yet but recently researched the topic so I figured I'd chime in. The cables will be in use Wednesday though when my Tyler D1's arrive.

[lu432]

I bought bulk cable and make my own cables, sounds perfect no complaints from customers

[Franco]

Tara Labs cable here (the $3 per foot budget kind, not the $300 per foot model that people who listen to music wearing a robe that costs more than my condo use).

I worry more about solder. Eutectic solder is better than that lead-free in my book. I haven't done any measurements (don't own a scope). I just feel more manly using solder with lead in it, but that's just me.

[Zownd]

I find this so fascinating.

I do admit to be quite hesitant about those expensive cables.
I also admit that having bought serious speakers I would not want to lose valuable information because of lesser cables.

The biggest upside I can think of is some sort of shield that keeps out interference. (like cell phones)

Some of us are quite serious about the right XLR cables. So why not about speaker cables??
Even Grimm Audio who makes a kick@ass clock sells "hi-end" XLR cables.
Is that to take advantage of the audiophile market and make an extra buck?

I was in a thread with him on his XLR's and he's very serious about it. It's not just resistance but also something called microfonie (that's dutch.. wouldn't know how to translate.. but it must be something like "microphonia" )
Anyway for that I will most likely go Mogami and check out the cheaper Grimm cables.... but that's a bit off topic.

thanks for the replies so far.... still no conclusive verdict.
My own verdict is cutting down the length of a cable gives a better signal... This I have witnessed already (yes with cheaper cables)

Cheers,
Mark

[Blast9]

Originally Posted by Rick Sutton

12 gauge zip from Home Depot. Works for me.

Question about cleaning the exposed ends (and for OFC cable) -

Do you regularly spray with de-oxit?

Do you leave them exposed?

Do you solder the ends?

[Petrus]

Originally Posted by Zownd

I find this so fascinating.

The biggest upside I can think of is some sort of shield that keeps out interference. (like cell phones)

Some of us are quite serious about the right XLR cables. So why not about speaker cables??

Signal stregth in speaker cables are so high that an interference audible in a mic cable is totally buried and totally inaudible.

When we worry about XLR cables we buy the best at $3/meter (Mogami, Canare etc). When we worry about speaker cables we buy 10 or 12 gauge from the hardware store, or fancy yellow Black&Decker extension cord like Tony Faulkner.

--- The story from New Scientist:

'Interestingly, New Scientist recently commented on the London Heathrow Hi Fi Show, saying that among the cables selling for up to £30,000 for 6 metres, they found Quad demonstrating their latest speakers to great enthusiasm. The orange cable to the speakers looked oddly familiar. When asked about it, Tony Faulkner, the recording engineer demonstrating them (who'd used the speakers as monitors while recording Saint-Saen's complete works for piano & orchestra, Gramophone's Record of the Year), said of the cables:

"Yes, they would look familiar if you have a garden. Before the show opened we went over the road to the DIY superstore and bought one of those £20 extension leads that Black & Decker sells for electric hedge-cutters. They are made from good, thick copper wire, look nice and sound good to me. The show's been running for three days and no one in the audience has noticed..." - New Scientist Magazine'

[Blast9]

Originally Posted by Petrus

When we worry about speaker cables we buy 10 or 12 gauge from the hardware store, or fancy yellow Black&Decker extension cord like Tony Faulkner.

--- The story from New Scientist:

'Interestingly, New Scientist recently commented on the London Heathrow Hi Fi Show, saying that among the cables selling for up to £30,000 for 6 metres, they found Quad demonstrating their latest speakers to great enthusiasm. The orange cable to the speakers looked oddly familiar. When asked about it, Tony Faulkner, the recording engineer demonstrating them (who'd used the speakers as monitors while recording Saint-Saen's complete works for piano & orchestra, Gramophone's Record of the Year), said of the cables:

"Yes, they would look familiar if you have a garden. Before the show opened we went over the road to the DIY superstore and bought one of those £20 extension leads that Black & Decker sells for electric hedge-cutters. They are made from good, thick copper wire, look nice and sound good to me. The show's been running for three days and no one in the audience has noticed..." - New Scientist Magazine'

great!

[Zownd]

Originally Posted by Petrus

Signal stregth in speaker cables are so high that an interference audible in a mic cable is totally buried and totally inaudible.

When we worry about XLR cables we buy the best at $3/meter (Mogami, Canare etc). When we worry about speaker cables we buy 10 or 12 gauge from the hardware store, or fancy yellow Black&Decker extension cord like Tony Faulkner.

--- The story from New Scientist:

'Interestingly, New Scientist recently commented on the London Heathrow Hi Fi Show, saying that among the cables selling for up to £30,000 for 6 metres, they found Quad demonstrating their latest speakers to great enthusiasm. The orange cable to the speakers looked oddly familiar. When asked about it, Tony Faulkner, the recording engineer demonstrating them (who'd used the speakers as monitors while recording Saint-Saen's complete works for piano & orchestra, Gramophone's Record of the Year), said of the cables:

"Yes, they would look familiar if you have a garden. Before the show opened we went over the road to the DIY superstore and bought one of those £20 extension leads that Black & Decker sells for electric hedge-cutters. They are made from good, thick copper wire, look nice and sound good to me. The show's been running for three days and no one in the audience has noticed..." - New Scientist Magazine'

made me Laugh out loud good one!

anyway your comment on the signal strength is probably the key to all of this.

[Rick Sutton]

Originally Posted by Blast9

Question about cleaning the exposed ends (and for OFC cable) -

Do you regularly spray with de-oxit?

Do you leave them exposed?

Do you solder the ends?

Actually my soffit speaker have been in place, untouched for 35 years. Originally the wire ends were treated with de-oxit. On my small nearfields I've replaced the binding posts with bananas so the ends of the wire is banana with the wire treated with de-oxit on original installation (about 10 years ago).

[Blast9]

Thanks Rick! - I was thinking banana plug might be the best option for me

[Zownd]

Originally Posted by Blast9

Thanks Rick! - I was thinking banana plug might be the best option for me

Wouldn't a spade have a better connection? big flat area...

[Rick Sutton]

Originally Posted by Zownd

Wouldn't a spade have a better connection? big flat area...

In my case the banana plug was chosen as I take these speakers off their stands on a regular basis and the banana is quick to work with. Quite a bit of surface area also.

[ds11]

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[wado1942]

Originally Posted by Petrus

"Yes, they would look familiar if you have a garden. Before the show opened we went over the road to the DIY superstore and bought one of those £20 extension leads that Black & Decker sells for electric hedge-cutters. They are made from good, thick copper wire, look nice and sound good to me. The show's been running for three days and no one in the audience has noticed..." - New Scientist Magazine'

I never thought of that. It's heavy, twisted cable with a good jacket. I'll have to start using that on my bass amp since my good speaker cable has disappeared and the cheap zip cord replacement I made is noticeably inferior for cranking it.

[Rick Sutton]

Originally Posted by wado1942

I never thought of that. It's heavy, twisted cable with a good jacket. I'll have to start using that on my bass amp since my good speaker cable has disappeared and the cheap zip cord replacement I made is noticeably inferior for cranking it.

Yeah, I use heavy duty AC extension cords for the main trunk line runs for headphone distribution in the studio. Works great and it's dirt cheap.

[Jerry Tubb]

Originally Posted by aleatoric

Just get some 10 AWG wire cut to your needed length, terminate if you desire (banana plugs, spades, etc.) and be done with it.

Relatively short cable runs and thick gauge wire eliminate any dampening effect that could be considered audible .

I personally have cable with ultrasonically welded banana plugs that I bought from Blue Jean Cable which were made to my desired length.

Quoted for truth.

High quality copper at 10 or 12 AWG.

Proper termination.

Short length.

A GS thread with simple answers that actually makes sense!

The garden variety HD extension cord comment made me laff.

Best, JT

Props to Blue Jeans Cable for doing a good job!

http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/speaker/index.htm

[ds11]

useful

[Zownd]

But shouldn't we use the cable using the best electric conductor?

Wouldn't that be silver?

[dcollins]

Originally Posted by Zownd

But shouldn't we use the cable using the best electric conductor?

Wouldn't that be silver?

IIrc, Silver just conducts 8% better than Copper. That's the only electrical difference.

Zip cord should be avoided as the cable needs to be twisted, not with the conductors side-by-side.

As long as the cables total resistivity is less than, say, 0.1 Ohm you can call it a day and spend your money on something important.

Like lunch.

Afaik, the origin of the lawn-mower mains cable was an article by the great John Watkinson in Resolution magazine, or at least that's where I saw it years ago.


DC