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Vladg Limiter (the guy with Molot comp)
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gregerlindberg
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#1
14th April 2012
Old 14th April 2012
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Vladg Limiter (the guy with Molot comp)

On the page, scroll down, there is a "public alpha version of a new limiter"

Just downloaded it, and it seems like its doing its job more then ok.
Im not an expert in any way on limiters, or a lot of other things for that mather.
But this little thing seem to keep everything in place even when you push it a little. When you set it right, it keeps all the punch that was there from the beginning, all the life of the track, and just makes it loader.
Its a compressor, and a brickwall limiter and a clipper, with oversampling and a whole bunch of other features. Nothing you will set and forget.
Definetley kicked elephant out of use for my part. My new to go limiter.
What is your opinion as more experienced people?


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15th April 2012
Old 15th April 2012
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It's awesome.

Love the GUI, to bad it's not the real one.
gregerlindberg
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15th April 2012
Old 15th April 2012
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Yeah i love the gui to. But the molot gui was pretty cool to. Sure he'll cook something good for it.. :D
Table Of Tone
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16th April 2012
Old 16th April 2012
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Just for fun, I've made a sonic style GUI for VladG's plug.

Done both the Mac version and the Win 32 version but couldn't find the right software to unpack and edit the Win 64 bit version.
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gregerlindberg
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16th April 2012
Old 16th April 2012
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Thats one neat lookong thing. Any chance i could get a hold of it?
Good job.
Table Of Tone
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16th April 2012
Old 16th April 2012
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PM me if you want it with that GUI as I don't wanna upload it here because it's not my plug.
I did a sonic style GUI just for fun.
Please don't re-distribute it as I've emailed Vlad to let him know I'd be happy to get it to him, as it is his plug and it's actually shaping up to be very cool.
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16th April 2012
Old 16th April 2012
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Wow, this thing really works well! Love Molot as well...
gregerlindberg
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17th April 2012
Old 17th April 2012
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Pm:ed..
Table Of Tone
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17th April 2012
Old 17th April 2012
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Does the blue GUI load up OK on Reaper (OSX)?
So far I've tried it on WL7, Studio One (version 2) and sB 2.0.1 HD, all on a mac.

This plug works like a charm on WaveLab 6 (Win 7).

Remembers presets N everything.

I'm gonna do some test captures with it making 3dB up, post ADC, clocked to the 10M/Trinty.
gregerlindberg
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18th April 2012
Old 18th April 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Table Of Tone View Post
Does the blue GUI load up OK on Reaper (OSX)?
So far I've tried it on WL7, Studio One (version 2) and sB 2.0.1 HD, all on a mac.

This plug works like a charm on WaveLab 6 (Win 7).

Remembers presets N everything.

I'm gonna do some test captures with it making 3dB up, post ADC, clocked to the 10M/Trinty.
Loads like a charm. :D
This thing is insane. You can really get it to go LOAD and still have all the punch in the world. Its like its not even on there if i set it right! TOTALLY impressed...
Bye bye every other limiter that i got, this one smokes them all...
When some knob is making it distort, like threshold to high, it starts to blink. You noticed that? Its like, turn this know and it will sound better.
Kinda of funny, thinks that intentionally?
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19th April 2012
Old 19th April 2012
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this looks great, gonns take it for a spin today!

Quote:
Originally Posted by gregerlindberg View Post
When some knob is making it distort, like threshold to high, it starts to blink. You noticed that? Its like, turn this know and it will sound better.
Kinda of funny, thinks that intentionally?
from the supplied manual:

"Amber border" indicator is a helper used to adjust "Threshold" parameter. The peak limiter in case of continuous limiting starts to distort the sound. To help localize distortions, if the limiter reduces gain for more than 1 dB longer than 20 ms the amber border appears around "Threshold" knob. If the border appears for the short time it is recommended to draw attention to threshold parameter. If the border holds for a continuous time it is recommended to adjust threshold to less aggressive value.
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19th April 2012
Old 19th April 2012
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I tried it and compared it with Ozone5 maximizer. Maybe my settings were wrong, but I found that the compressor was killing the depth of the mix even with around 2 dB GR. The clipper and limiter were distorting regardless of the amount of GR and sounded a bit like an exciter.
Is not transparent at all but it sounds good, more like clipping an ADC than using a limiter. Ozone sounded a bit sluggish in comparison, but was preserving the depth a lot more.
On some material, it could be the right tool, and could be useful on some busses or tracks in a mix setting.
I may sound critical, but I liked it and will experiment further.
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19th April 2012
Old 19th April 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanddigger1 View Post
I tried it and compared it with Ozone5 maximizer. Maybe my settings were wrong, but I found that the compressor was killing the depth of the mix even with around 2 dB GR. The clipper and limiter were distorting regardless of the amount of GR and sounded a bit like an exciter.
Is not transparent at all but it sounds good, more like clipping an ADC than using a limiter. Ozone sounded a bit sluggish in comparison, but was preserving the depth a lot more.
On some material, it could be the right tool, and could be useful on some busses or tracks in a mix setting.
I may sound critical, but I liked it and will experiment further.
If you only use the peaklimiter (type C) in brickwall mode, not the clipper or the compressor, it is one of the most transparent limiters I've tried.
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19th April 2012
Old 19th April 2012
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You guys should try Tone Boosters Barricade. It's around $20 and I prefer it over FabFilter. Great limiter.
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gregerlindberg
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19th April 2012
Old 19th April 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Babaluma View Post
this looks great, gonns take it for a spin today!



from the supplied manual:

"Amber border" indicator is a helper used to adjust "Threshold" parameter. The peak limiter in case of continuous limiting starts to distort the sound. To help localize distortions, if the limiter reduces gain for more than 1 dB longer than 20 ms the amber border appears around "Threshold" knob. If the border appears for the short time it is recommended to draw attention to threshold parameter. If the border holds for a continuous time it is recommended to adjust threshold to less aggressive value.
There you go. :D guess in the typical male. You know, manuals go out the box and then you start fiddle with things. Haha..
Thanks.
Riccardo
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19th April 2012
Old 19th April 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Table Of Tone View Post
PM me if you want it with that GUI as I don't wanna upload it here because it's not my plug.
I did a sonic style GUI just for fun.
Please don't re-distribute it as I've emailed Vlad to let him know I'd be happy to get it to him, as it is his plug and it's actually shaping up to be very cool.
Pm sent!
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20th April 2012
Old 20th April 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanddigger1 View Post
I tried it and compared it with Ozone5 maximizer. Maybe my settings were wrong, but I found that the compressor was killing the depth of the mix even with around 2 dB GR. The clipper and limiter were distorting regardless of the amount of GR and sounded a bit like an exciter.
Is not transparent at all but it sounds good, more like clipping an ADC than using a limiter. Ozone sounded a bit sluggish in comparison, but was preserving the depth a lot more.
On some material, it could be the right tool, and could be useful on some busses or tracks in a mix setting.
I may sound critical, but I liked it and will experiment further.
How hot was the track? I aim for -18 average and hear no distortion.
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20th April 2012
Old 20th April 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanddigger1 View Post
I tried it and compared it with Ozone5 maximizer. Maybe my settings were wrong, but I found that the compressor was killing the depth of the mix even with around 2 dB GR. The clipper and limiter were distorting regardless of the amount of GR and sounded a bit like an exciter.
Is not transparent at all but it sounds good, more like clipping an ADC than using a limiter. Ozone sounded a bit sluggish in comparison, but was preserving the depth a lot more.
On some material, it could be the right tool, and could be useful on some busses or tracks in a mix setting.
I may sound critical, but I liked it and will experiment further.
Well, this thing is still an alpha version so I can rewrite it all until release :-)

You're right about ADC. That was my initial idea to make ADC clipping emulation but then I slighly moved focus to achieve the sound something between brickwall limiter that can make dynamics dull and clipping that sounds harsh.

The main feature of limiter inside this plugin is very short lookahead and attack times. I think I found a good compromise between "highlighting" of transients (you're right again about "exciter"-like sound) and added distortions. Of course it doesn't work for all types of music but you can slower the attack/lookahead a bit by "speed" switch. Sometimes it helps. Try also multiband mode.

Just FYI, another 2 features of this plugin are:
1. No magic at all. No auto-release times, auto-thresholds, program depended stuff, etc. All in your hands.
2. Use all components to help them sounds better. Each component has its own restrictions when it sounds right or when it doesn't. Make each component to help subsequent ones to operation in best sounding mode.

And also if you're insterested in loudness, I can say for some types of music this plugin can make it *SO F& LOUD* but for some types it just distorts it. Can't make a good advice (it's still alpha-version yet) but just try to use it. If it works, it works great! :-)

About loss of depth in compressor I'll think about it. BTW, what was your compressor settings and how hot was the input? (2Blandry: I prefer to use -18 too).

2Table Of Tone

I'll make your blue-style GUI public available in a couple of days. Sorry, I'm busy do it just now.
gregerlindberg
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20th April 2012
Old 20th April 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vladg View Post
Well, this thing is still an alpha version so I can rewrite it all until release :-)

You're right about ADC. That was my initial idea to make ADC clipping emulation but then I slighly moved focus to achieve the sound something between brickwall limiter that can make dynamics dull and clipping that sounds harsh.

The main feature of limiter inside this plugin is very short lookahead and attack times. I think I found a good compromise between "highlighting" of transients (you're right again about "exciter"-like sound) and added distortions. Of course it doesn't work for all types of music but you can slower the attack/lookahead a bit by "speed" switch. Sometimes it helps. Try also multiband mode.

Just FYI, another 2 features of this plugin are:
1. No magic at all. No auto-release times, auto-thresholds, program depended stuff, etc. All in your hands.
2. Use all components to help them sounds better. Each component has its own restrictions when it sounds right or when it doesn't. Make each component to help subsequent ones to operation in best sounding mode.

And also if you're insterested in loudness, I can say for some types of music this plugin can make it *SO F& LOUD* but for some types it just distorts it. Can't make a good advice (it's still alpha-version yet) but just try to use it. If it works, it works great! :-)

About loss of depth in compressor I'll think about it. BTW, what was your compressor settings and how hot was the input? (2Blandry: I prefer to use -18 too).

2Table Of Tone

I'll make your blue-style GUI public available in a couple of days. Sorry, I'm busy do it just now.

Gotta say i love this thing. Im doing mostly rock stuff. And this thing can go insanely load. I never gotten it quite to sound bad, just preserve the punch and dynamics like nothing else. Maybe this one is easier then others, (for me). But love it! Cant wait for final release.
Excellent job...
Table Of Tone
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20th April 2012
Old 20th April 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vladg View Post
Well, this thing is still an alpha version so I can rewrite it all until release :-)

You're right about ADC. That was my initial idea to make ADC clipping emulation but then I slighly moved focus to achieve the sound something between brickwall limiter that can make dynamics dull and clipping that sounds harsh.

The main feature of limiter inside this plugin is very short lookahead and attack times. I think I found a good compromise between "highlighting" of transients (you're right again about "exciter"-like sound) and added distortions. Of course it doesn't work for all types of music but you can slower the attack/lookahead a bit by "speed" switch. Sometimes it helps. Try also multiband mode.

Just FYI, another 2 features of this plugin are:
1. No magic at all. No auto-release times, auto-thresholds, program depended stuff, etc. All in your hands.
2. Use all components to help them sounds better. Each component has its own restrictions when it sounds right or when it doesn't. Make each component to help subsequent ones to operation in best sounding mode.

And also if you're insterested in loudness, I can say for some types of music this plugin can make it *SO F& LOUD* but for some types it just distorts it. Can't make a good advice (it's still alpha-version yet) but just try to use it. If it works, it works great! :-)

About loss of depth in compressor I'll think about it. BTW, what was your compressor settings and how hot was the input? (2Blandry: I prefer to use -18 too).

2Table Of Tone

I'll make your blue-style GUI public available in a couple of days. Sorry, I'm busy do it just now.
That's cool and it's shaping up real nice.
I too have had very little down time but I do think that the actual plug is very cool.
WL6 prints it off line just fine BTW.
I love the fact that it's all in your hands, but if you know how to use it.....

All I can say is that it would be nice to be able to double click N type in gain, etc, values, but it's pretty close so I wouldn't change it too much.
Good job!
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#21
21st April 2012
Old 21st April 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vladg View Post
Well, this thing is still an alpha version so I can rewrite it all until release :-)

You're right about ADC. That was my initial idea to make ADC clipping emulation but then I slighly moved focus to achieve the sound something between brickwall limiter that can make dynamics dull and clipping that sounds harsh.

The main feature of limiter inside this plugin is very short lookahead and attack times. I think I found a good compromise between "highlighting" of transients (you're right again about "exciter"-like sound) and added distortions. Of course it doesn't work for all types of music but you can slower the attack/lookahead a bit by "speed" switch. Sometimes it helps. Try also multiband mode.

Just FYI, another 2 features of this plugin are:
1. No magic at all. No auto-release times, auto-thresholds, program depended stuff, etc. All in your hands.
2. Use all components to help them sounds better. Each component has its own restrictions when it sounds right or when it doesn't. Make each component to help subsequent ones to operation in best sounding mode.

And also if you're insterested in loudness, I can say for some types of music this plugin can make it *SO F& LOUD* but for some types it just distorts it. Can't make a good advice (it's still alpha-version yet) but just try to use it. If it works, it works great! :-)

About loss of depth in compressor I'll think about it. BTW, what was your compressor settings and how hot was the input? (2Blandry: I prefer to use -18 too).

2Table Of Tone

I'll make your blue-style GUI public available in a couple of days. Sorry, I'm busy do it just now.

I didnt save the settings, but I remember that the threshold was -20 or under, the ratio 1.2:1 attack 0.1 (not sure and release 0.2 or 0.3 . The peak level was - 6 dBFS and the RMS under -20 before processing. I would have liked a dry/wet control for the compressor module.
As suggested by Philip, I tried the limiter alone in brickwall mode and found it transparent except for some grainyness around 1kHz on some songs, but not all, which I could probably get rid of with some more parameters tweaking. Using several modules including the clipper is much more fun than just using the limiter.
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21st April 2012
Old 21st April 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Table Of Tone View Post
All I can say is that it would be nice to be able to double click N type in gain, etc, values, but it's pretty close so I wouldn't change it too much.
You can use shift+mouse wheel for fine tuning. I'll try to add ability with exact values typing in final release.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sanddigger1 View Post
I would have liked a dry/wet control for the compressor module.
I added it some time ago but didn't update available version.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gregerlindberg View Post
Im doing mostly rock stuff. And this thing can go insanely load. I never gotten it quite to sound bad, just preserve the punch and dynamics like nothing else.
So it's "rock limiter that rocks!" Thanks! :-)
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21st April 2012
Old 21st April 2012
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The 'ISP protection' module is great. I tried it after clipping an actual ADC and it was better than any other options I had, effectively suppressing ISPs without audible side-effects. What is the difference between 'fast' and 'precise' ?
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21st April 2012
Old 21st April 2012
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another one who hasn't read the manual! i believe "fast" is a computationally quicker algorithm, wheras "precise" is more processor heavy but will ensure less ISPs.

from the manual:

"Protection" – controls the limiting type:

"Digital" – digital clipping is used (see "Red border" indicator).

"ISP Fast" – simplified inter-sample limiter is used. This mode sounds like "ISP
Precise" one but requires less CPU power and doesn't guarantees true signal peaks
limit.

"ISP Precise" – normal inter-sample limiter operational mode (4x sinc-function
oversampling used to get true signal level).
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21st April 2012
Old 21st April 2012
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I've read it, but too fast, I must confess...
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21st April 2012
Old 21st April 2012
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hey no worries!

i need to have more of a play with it, only had a quick play, and i think it will take some time to learn the usage and best application for each of the stages, but i reckon when you do have it clear in your head, it will probably be capable of some really great sounding masters. i'm hoping it could be just the ticket for "EXTRA LOUD" when people want that too.
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22nd April 2012
Old 22nd April 2012
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If anyone is interested, I did experimental version with new features (instead of making final GUI and releasing it :-)

Experimental Windows VST 32-bit & 64-bit versions are in archive:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/18475891/limiter6-20120422.zip

What I added:
1. M/S mode to RMS compressor ("On" switch in compressor is 3-positional now) and "Dry Mix" knob.
2. Optional 4x oversampling for limiters (available only when the clipper doesn't use "GR oversampling" mode or when the clipper is off, click on gray "1x" text to turn it on)
3. Also fixed small "feature" in "Type C" limiter that can make sound dirty.

My current development problems:

1. I'm not sure is 4x oversampling I added for the limiter is useful or not. The type of oversampling I use softens transients a bit (but preserves depth as pros). Of course, for some types of mixes it is not desirable. But I can't decide on my monitoring: does added oversampling in limiter really reduce IM distortions?

(and not so big one)

2. Maybe "Dry Mix" knob is better to be implemented in percents (for example for 20% got 20% of dry signal and 80% of wet signal)? It's just summing of dry signal in amount of dB now.

Also I want to decide: are "clickless switches" really required for "mastering plugin"? For example in current version if you turn on and off modules or switch some parameters, you can hear a nasty click (not one-sample click but longer). Theoretically, it can be suppressed.

Any opinions?
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22nd April 2012
Old 22nd April 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vladg View Post
Also I want to decide: are "clickless switches" really required for "mastering plugin"? or example in current version if you turn on and off modules or switch some parameters, you can hear a nasty click (not one-sample click but longer).
Yes. Monitoring at higher levels, it'd be very easy to ruin speakers if they weren't
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#29
22nd April 2012
Old 22nd April 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vladg View Post
1. M/S mode to RMS compressor ("On" switch in compressor is 3-positional now) and "Dry Mix" knob.
The "dry" knob has replaced the "knee" one. I assume that the knee is now fixed, which value has been chosen ? In thest I ran, there was no diffrence with the "digital" knee of the previous version. But , as the GR was 0.5 dB max, the difference was difficult to hear ?


Quote:
Originally Posted by vladg View Post
My current development problems:

1. I'm not sure is 4x oversampling I added for the limiter is useful or not. The type of oversampling I use softens transients a bit (but preserves depth as pros). Of course, for some types of mixes it is not desirable. But I can't decide on my monitoring: does added oversampling in limiter really reduce IM distortions?
Usually , I dont use oversampling on limiters which have this mode. Maybe some people could find it useful ?



Quote:
Originally Posted by vladg View Post
2. Maybe "Dry Mix" knob is better to be implemented in percents (for example for 20% got 20% of dry signal and 80% of wet signal)? It's just summing of dry signal in amount of dB now.
As mixing dry/wet is most of the time adjusted by ear, to me, its is unimportant. Just having "dry" and "wet" at each end of the knob range would be enough...

Quote:
Originally Posted by vladg View Post
Also I want to decide: are "clickless switches" really required for "mastering plugin"? For example in current version if you turn on and off modules or switch some parameters, you can hear a nasty click (not one-sample click but longer). Theoretically, it can be suppressed.

Any opinions?
Yes clickless switches would be cool and make A/B comparisons easier.

Thanks a lot for your great work !

Last edited by Deleted User #43636; 23rd April 2012 at 12:17 AM.. Reason: I finally found the "X1" text ... :D
Table Of Tone
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#30
22nd April 2012
Old 22nd April 2012
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Added 1.5dB to an already mastered capture using just the clipper part of it with no oversampling engaged.

Ran it in AudioCube WaveLab + 24 bit flat dither/AES to AES/ captured into another machine also running ACWL, everything clocked to 10M/Trinity.

Came out sounding good!
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