Extract noise from a recording

[MAzevedo]

RX can do this. There is a checkbox in the Denoiser to monitor what is being removed instead of what is being kept. If you export the file with the box checked, all you get is the noise. (Which is something I've done unintentionally many times.)

[geolad]

Originally Posted by MAzevedo

RX can do this. There is a checkbox in the Denoiser to monitor what is being removed instead of what is being kept. If you export the file with the box checked, all you get is the noise. (Which is something I've done unintentionally many times.)

Thanks. I will give it a try. I have the impression it gives the noise removed (reduced by 12dB) from the recording, with a white noise profile at -60dB.

[ctms777]

Originally Posted by geolad

Is there a program/plug-in that can extract the noise from a recording and save it as a separate WAV file?
Most denoisers (e.g. VOXENGO Redunoise, WAVES X-Noise etc.) require a noise profile. They can extract it from a selected (only noise) part of the recording, and then save this noise profile in their own file format.
Some other denoisers (e.g. Algorithmix NoiseFree, WAVES Z-Noise etc.) can also extract the noise profile from a contaminated recording (i.e. music+noise), and then again save this noise profile in their own file format.
But is there a program/plug-in that could give the full only noise in a WAV file?

Waves X-noise, z-noise, Izotope RX and probably some other denoisers all have the ability to "output noise only", so you can hear what you're taking away. If you check the "output noise only" button when processing, you'll get the noise only, but it'll be very "chirpy" sounding because of the steepness of the filters.

[geolad]

Originally Posted by ctms777

Waves X-noise, z-noise, Izotope RX and probably some other denoisers all have the ability to "output noise only", so you can hear what you're taking away. If you check the "output noise only" button when processing, you'll get the noise only, but it'll be very "chirpy" sounding because of the steepness of the filters.

I do not wish to define parameters for denoising and hence get what is taken out.
When Z-noise for example extracts the noise profile from the contaminated recording (and not a noise only part of it), it apparently decides what is noise and what is music. Can I get what it has decided is noise?
Or, am I asking too much?

[Alexey Lukin]

Originally Posted by geolad

But is there a program/plug-in that could give the full only noise in a WAV file?

Perhaps you need a Deconstruct tool from RX 2 Advanced? It separates the file into noisy and tonal parts, so you can save them separately. No noise training is required, but you may need to adjust the detector's noisy/tonal balance.

[geolad]

Originally Posted by Alexey Lukin

Perhaps you need a Deconstruct tool from RX 2 Advanced? It separates the file into noisy and tonal parts, so you can save them separately. No noise training is required, but you may need to adjust the detector's noisy/tonal balance.

Thanks. I think your suggestion comes closest to what I had in mind.
How well does this job of separating the noise from the music? I once knew that it was like white coffee: once they have been mixed together, it is extremely difficult to separate the milk from the coffee. Have the algorithms improved enough to provide us with such an option?

[Alexey Lukin]

It depends on what you call noise. This algorithm considers drums, percussion, sibilants, flute air, cello bow scratching to be noise. It does not consider usefulness of any sounds, it just searches for tones, harmonics, etc.

[geolad]

Originally Posted by Alexey Lukin

It depends on what you call noise. This algorithm considers drums, percussion, sibilants, flute air, cello bow scratching to be noise. It does not consider usefulness of any sounds, it just searches for tones, harmonics, etc.

Thanks again Alexey Lukin for your clear answer.
Apparently there is a long way to go to achieve such a feast... We probably need more artificial intelligence!
But, if "drums, percussion, sibilants, flute air, cello bow scratching" are noise, then... have you honestly found any usefulness at all in this Deconstruct module?

[Alexey Lukin]

Yes, it has both creative and restorative uses. Creative uses include giving more/less more air to flutes, more/less bow sounds to cellos, manipulating timbre of instruments. Restorative uses are noise reduction for old vinyl/shellac records (along with the denoiser), elimination of clipping artifacts (along with the declipper).

[geolad]

Originally Posted by Alexey Lukin

Yes, it has both creative and restorative uses. Creative uses include giving more/less more air to flutes, more/less bow sounds to cellos, manipulating timbre of instruments. Restorative uses are noise reduction for old vinyl/shellac records (along with the denoiser), elimination of clipping artifacts (along with the declipper).

I can not think of anyone using the Deconstruct module for creative use. Izotope includes it in its restoration suite and not in any creative suites.
My idea of noise is mains/hum, rumble, vinyl surface noise, tape noise etc
If I could not isolate these from "drums, percussion, sibilants, flute air, cello bow scratching", then I would dress it up "for creative purposes".

[sat159p1]

Originally Posted by MAzevedo

RX can do this. There is a checkbox in the Denoiser to monitor what is being removed instead of what is being kept. If you export the file with the box checked, all you get is the noise. (Which is something I've done unintentionally many times.)

Yes, the same for Audition.
You can try the 5.5 version - is dowloadable from Adobe site and it's a fully functional 30-day trial.

[Cellotron]

Acon Digital's Denoiser is yet another plugin that can separate what it is set to extract to a separate file if you wish.

Studio Clean | DirectX & VST Plug-In Suite - Noise Reduction & Audio Restoration

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[geolad]

Originally Posted by sat159p1

Yes, the same for Audition.
You can try the 5.5 version - is dowloadable from Adobe site and it's a fully functional 30-day trial.

I cannot see how Audition can extract the noise to a WAV file. It requires a noise only segment to create a noise profile and then performs its noise reduction process. All it can give in a file is the noise that it has removed according to your denoising parameters.

[Hane]

I've read your post Geolad and I'm still confused as to how you want the software to remove noise.
I thought the answers other posters have given you were what you're looking for but, it seems it isn't.

Do you want the software to automatically detect a signal that has no specific tone, no harmonics that can occur at any level like white noise while rejecting signals with tones, harmonics that's drastically changing in level as in music?

[MAzevedo]

Originally Posted by geolad

I can not think of anyone using the Deconstruct module for creative use. Izotope includes it in its restoration suite and not in any creative suites.
My idea of noise is mains/hum, rumble, vinyl surface noise, tape noise etc
If I could not isolate these from "drums, percussion, sibilants, flute air, cello bow scratching", then I would dress it up "for creative purposes".

I use RX Advanced creatively as well as for restoration, for anyone interested in sound design it's really a goldmine of processing options. I've previously used the spectral repair to alter string noise for artistic reasons, which worked great but took forever. I'll give the Deconstruct a try next time.

[geolad]

Originally Posted by Cellotron

Acon Digital's Denoiser is yet another plugin that can separate what it is set to extract to a separate file if you wish.

Studio Clean | DirectX & VST Plug-In Suite - Noise Reduction & Audio Restoration

Best regards,
Steve Berson

Thanks Steve.
What a humble giant this software is! It may not do what I wanted, but its restoration process offers a very good sound. I can not see why it does not output beyond 44.1kHz sample rate.

[geolad]

Originally Posted by Hane

I've read your post Geolad and I'm still confused as to how you want the software to remove noise.
I thought the answers other posters have given you were what you're looking for but, it seems it isn't.

Do you want the software to automatically detect a signal that has no specific tone, no harmonics that can occur at any level like white noise while rejecting signals with tones, harmonics that's drastically changing in level as in music?

Yes, that's what I had in mind. But I now think it is probably a utopia.
As you describe it though, mains hum has specific tone and harmonics. Where would the software place it, noise or music?
Or, as Alexey Lukin described it:

Originally Posted by Alexey Lukin

It does not consider usefulness of any sounds, it just searches for tones, harmonics, etc.

Is there such a program, that takes into account "usefulness of any sounds"?

[geolad]

Originally Posted by MAzevedo

I use RX Advanced creatively as well as for restoration, for anyone interested in sound design it's really a goldmine of processing options. I've previously used the spectral repair to alter string noise for artistic reasons, which worked great but took forever.

You are very innovative, MAzevedo. Personally I would never have thought of using a restoration suite for creative/artistic things.

[sat159p1]

Originally Posted by geolad

I cannot see how Audition can extract the noise to a WAV file. It requires a noise only segment to create a noise profile and then performs its noise reduction process. All it can give in a file is the noise that it has removed according to your denoising parameters.

Hmmm... Now I know what's on your mind. But it's very hard to "extract noise" from a file without selecting part of that noise. Every noise is different, every tape has its own hiss characteristics, etc.

But You can try this suite Wave Arts | Suites - try the demo from their site. I demo'ed it some time ago and itt can keep the "only hiss" with its own controls without plotting the noise by user.

[Hane]

Originally Posted by geolad

Yes, that's what I had in mind. But I now think it is probably a utopia.
As you describe it though, mains hum has specific tone and harmonics. Where would the software place it, noise or music?

Mains hum does have a tone and harmonics but, it's usually at a static level compared to music. Maybe software can be programmed to detect constant pitch signals and treat it as noise though, I could be wrong.