What in the actual f***.. My masters are EXTREMELY LOW!!!

[julianmalone10]

This s*** is really blowing me right now!
I have good signals coming through the mix and I bounce the track down with no peaking anywhere and then in the mastering session (I'm using pro tools btw), I put a LinEQ Broad. a SSLComp & a L2 in the master fader. Set everything to where its at the top of the meters and it looks like how commercial songs look in the meters and this song is still like preschool a** low!!!!!

Help will be pretty cool of you.

[dpalasini]

Its really not as easy as that. If so-why would there even be professional ME's?

What you are seeing is peak levels. You need to meter your RMS, or average, level. Getting that louder without creating horrible distortions and ruining a good mix, now that is where the art form lies.

Spend a lot of time learning to master, or pay someone with lots of experience to master it for you.

Personally, I would prefer someone with tons of experience and a really well treated, good sounding room and system to master for me. Even if it costs a few extra bucks.

[j.hexx]

Originally Posted by dpalasini

Its really not as easy as that. If so-why would there even be professional ME's?

What you are seeing is peak levels. You need to meter your RMS, or average, level. Getting that louder without creating horrible distortions and ruining a good mix, now that is where the art form lies.

Spend a lot of time learning to master, or pay someone with lots of experience to master it for you.

Personally, I would prefer someone with tons of experience and a really well treated, good sounding room and system to master for me. Even if it costs a few extra bucks.

i agree with you. i done a few of my own masters, but nothing beats a expert with their own gear they understand, a well treated room, and a second pair of subjective ears that can hear things in the mix, that the og mixing engineer can't hear.

[SFB]

Trust me I've been there and I still have issues similar to yours.

Maybe it's the way your track is mixed? the way your track is sequenced and composed in addition to how you use compression, eq, sidechaining, automation, etc can all go a long way towards allowing you to achieve a commercial sounding (LOUD) master.

But then again, I'm not a pro mastering engineer so maybe someone more experienced should chime in here....

[wado1942]

Spectral balance and composition have A LOT to do with perceived loudness as well. I'd first take a look at how you're composing and arranging your songs. If your music is just a drum machine, it can't get loud because the limiter will be bringing down the same sound its trying to raise. Likewise, any single instrument that's too loud in the mix will work against you. Having too many things happening at once will clutter the sound, reducing clarity, especially when limiting the snot out of it.

Then, make sure you don't have any major spikes in frequency response taking up all your headroom in the mix. A lot of being able to achieve this this a great quality, well calibrated monitor system in a good room. After all, if you can't hear your tracks well, you can't mix them well.

Bear in mind, also, that you're probably comparing your mixes to stuff that was mastered on tens (or hundreds) of thousands of dollars worth of equipment by guys who have been in the business for at least a decade. Even those guys can't get the masters as loud as they're doing now without some severe distortion. Don't expect to get the same results with your Waves plugins and very limited experience.

[lu432]

Your problems all started in your tracking and mixing. If your using samples then they are not properly mixed to give you the most volume. You probably have some ghosting issues and other things going on that are taking away energy from your mix. Best to consult with a proper mix engineer and have them work on your tune before submitting it to mastering. It will save you a lot of headaches and you could probably learn a thing or two from the mixing engineer to help you out.

Lu

[Beatz0121]

i know how you feel man! i want to learn how to make my tracks louder too! i feel like im doing everything right in my master but still sounds wayy quieter then commercial music. substantially!

[ritelec]

"What in the actual f***..."

Originally Posted by julianmalone10

This s*** is really blowing me right now!
this song is still like preschool a** low!!!!!

Originally Posted by SFB

Trust me I've been there and I still have issues similar to yours.

You still have a potty mouth too SFB......?

[julianmalone10]

Thank you!!!! lol I got my stuff at a pretty high level now. The thing was, I mix my instrumentals then bounce em to a stereo track then import it to a vocal session. I'm still new to mixing drums, snares, samples, etc. I'd just toss sounds and not add any compression or try leveling at all. I was focusing mainly on keeping the spikes in the waveform from the roof of the box instead of trying to level all the instruments. Once I turned my drums n snare down I got the level I wanted.
Thanks again for the help. Its greatly appreciated.

[Cheebs Goat]

Originally Posted by julianmalone10

Thank you!!!! lol I got my stuff at a pretty high level now. The thing was, I mix my instrumentals then bounce em to a stereo track then import it to a vocal session. I'm still new to mixing drums, snares, samples, etc. I'd just toss sounds and not add any compression or try leveling at all. I was focusing mainly on keeping the spikes in the waveform from the roof of the box instead of trying to level all the instruments. Once I turned my drums n snare down I got the level I wanted.
Thanks again for the help. Its greatly appreciated.

Whoa! Time to take 20 steps back!

You need to master a finished mix. Don't even try to master something that has a "just tossed in there" mix.

And don't ever, ever, ever, ever, ever master something to any type of loudness and then use it afterwards in a vocal session. Record and edit every last bit before doing anything else, mix it until you can't stand to mix any more, then master.

[StringBean]

I recently started using less voices in my mixes, and suddenly they are as loud as commercial stuff without having them brickwalled. I think arrangement and proper gain staging are the key

[ttown23]

Originally Posted by Cheebs Goat

Whoa! Time to take 20 steps back!

You need to master a finished mix. Don't even try to master something that has a "just tossed in there" mix.

And don't ever, ever, ever, ever, ever master something to any type of loudness and then use it afterwards in a vocal session. Record and edit every last bit before doing anything else, mix it until you can't stand to mix any more, then master.

Exactly- listen to his man, he gives great advice!

Oh, and one more thing... listen to your mixes in mono!!! This will allow you to pick out and troubleshoot and L-R phase cancellation issues, especially important when stereo mic'ing instruments!

[wado1942]

Originally Posted by Cheebs Goat

Whoa! Time to take 20 steps back!

DITTO! Making stuff loud is the last thing you should worry about doing right now. Composition is #1 and most important. When you get REALLY good at that, work on recording. When you get REALLY good at that, work on mixing. When you get REALLY good at that, start learning to master. When you get REALLY good at that, learn how to make stuff loud (I listed this separately from mastering because it's an entirely new skill set). Expect each one of these steps to take a couple of years.

It amazes me how common it has become for people to obsess about making stuff loud before they even know the very basics of music and audio.

[lu432]

Just adding to what Waldo said, there is a lot of really cool stuff to learn mixing that later on you helps you with mixing. Don't worry about how loud you can get in mastering, worry about how balanced and how dynamic your songs are in tracking then mixing. Ultimately that makes a better song to listen too, it makes it more enjoyable, and better selling product.

[Cupwise]

i hate that people refer to it as BEING louder. it's not. it is, i mean, technically the recording has higher rms levels, so it's 'louder' in the recording, but when i listen to music i'm going to adjust it to the volume i want to hear it at.

so the only real difference in the end, is that the so-called 'louder' mix, has had it's dynamics squashed out of it, and it probably has shitty sounding clipping distortion on the vocals/guitars/everything. the main thing i hate about it though is how the drums just basically vanish, at least compared to what they should be, which is peaking out above everything else.

it's not louder it's just squashed. it's not louder because if i don't f#cking WANT it to be louder, i will turn it to a reasonable level. you aren't foisting extra loudness off onto ANYONE. WHY IS THIS MADNESS GOING ON?

ok so everyone already knows both sides of the story, i guess my attempt at making a point is on my specific issue with calling it 'louder', which pretty much everyone does. the end result.. i mean if you could go out and somehow do a study to see what levels people are actually listening to the stuff at in their rooms, over their headphones etc, would the study show that THAT level has risen since the advent of L2? or would it show that people do what they've always done when they turn on music- ADJUST THE VOLUME KNOB. at the end of the day, the actual music that gets listened to, is not louder. it's just shittier.

[nopattern]

Originally Posted by wado1942

It amazes me how common it has become for people to obsess about making stuff loud before they even know the very basics of music and audio.

in all fairness alot of the music out there people listen to is pretty simple, think about alot of dance music. people hear it, like ok this is easy i should be able to do it too, it's just some drums and a bassline. people see no reason why they shouldn't be able to get these sounds.

easy way to make something louder, turn it up past what you think is the maximum, if it sounds good it's fine

[ttown23]

Originally Posted by nopattern

in all fairness alot of the music out there people listen to is pretty simple, think about alot of dance music. people hear it, like ok this is easy i should be able to do it too, it's just some drums and a bassline. people see no reason why they shouldn't be able to get these sounds.

easy way to make something louder, turn it up past what you think is the maximum, if it sounds good it's fine

Good point. I have been criticized before for making my stuff too complex... when all the client wants is a simple upbeat dancy track. Go figure... it's the simple hooks that draw most listeners in, and so that's what they want, for better or worse.

[StringBean]

simpler is better, the tragic compromise of recorded audio ...

[ttown23]

Originally Posted by StringBean

simpler is better, the tragic compromise of recorded audio ...

Exactly, damn that headroom !