Reduced 19 and 20k frequencies in Serban Ghenea mixed tracks

[Ed Smith]

I thought I would analyse the EQ of the chorus for three Dr Luke records which are all mixed by Serban Ghenea and compare them to mine. I noticed that all three records seem to have no or very little 19 and 20k frequency as can be seen in the attached screenshot.

When mastering my records should I shelve the highest frequencies as these appear to have been?

[jonathan jetter]

are these mp3/m4a/some other compressed format? or full quality wave files?

[Ed Smith]

They are all mp3 files downloaded from Amazon. Is that likely to be the reason? When the songs are converted to mp3 does it remove 19 and 20k frequency? I wondered if reducing the 19 and 20k frequencies was a trick mastering engineers were doing to give them more headroom to enable them to boost the loudness?

[Technologyworks]

Originally Posted by Ed Smith

They are all mp3 files downloaded from Amazon. Is that likely to be the reason?

[Waltz Mastering]

Originally Posted by Ed Smith

When the songs are converted to mp3 does it remove 19 and 20k frequency?

256 - 320 kbps typically can cut off around 19k
128 - 192 kbps around 15 - 16K

[Ricey]

sorry, i know we all have to learn that at some point...

reminds me of a client that was complaining about a mastering engineer - client was listening on his ipod, everything was converted to mp3

what's worse is that when i tried to explain, he thought i was giving him the runaround, just standing up for a colleague

[Ed Smith]

Originally Posted by Waltz Mastering

256 - 320 kbps typically can cut off around 19k
128 - 192 kbps around 15 - 16K

Ah that would explain it then. Thanks for the info.

[dcollins]

Originally Posted by Waltz Mastering

256 - 320 kbps typically can cut off around 19k
128 - 192 kbps around 15 - 16K

Looks like more RTA haters from here.


DC

[ritelec]

thanks for the insight.

[Paul Gold]

A more interesting question is whether you see the same thing on a full resolution file.

[quantumpsych]

you don't want anything going on up there, ideally. as far as i understand digital theory, frequencies close to 22khz can cause inharmonic distortion but after mixdown, most of the damage is already done. you should be able to minimize further distortion by applying an LPF before an ITB signal chain though.

[dcollins]

Originally Posted by quantumpsych

you don't want anything going on up there, ideally. as far as i understand digital theory, frequencies close to 22khz can cause inharmonic distortion but after mixdown, most of the damage is already done. you should be able to minimize further distortion by applying an LPF before an ITB signal chain though.

First, what frequencies are "allowed" is totally dictated by the sampling rate and second we don't just go around low-passing based on the analyzer picture.

DC

[engmix]

Originally Posted by dcollins

First, what frequencies are "allowed" is totally dictated by the sampling rate and second we don't just go around low-passing based on the analyzer picture.

DC

Agreed...although this is not what you're saying, it seems like to me ever since CD's there's far less scrutiny when it comes to pushing eq in mastering. I remembered watching a mastering engineer and he was pushing .5 dB at 56hz. For some reason i was surprised and asked why, he said because it sounds good, lesson learned.

[Adam Dempsey]

Originally Posted by engmix

I remembered watching a mastering engineer and he was pushing .5 dB at 56hz. For some reason i was surprised and asked why, he said because it sounds good, lesson learned.

If it's the unit I'm thinking of which includes a 56Hz setting then yes, I concur it often can (sound very good).

[wo1]

He he!

Seems like that mixes was mastered with plugins that use antialias filtering. Earlier Softube plugs, Abbey Road Softube Plugs maybe...

[DAH]

0.5 db still seems to be more of a placebo. if not, incredible monitoring chain accuracy

[Adam Dempsey]

Originally Posted by DAH

0.5 db still seems to be more of a placebo. if not, incredible monitoring chain accuracy

At what bandwidth or Q factor?

[Virtalahde]

Originally Posted by DAH

0.5 db still seems to be more of a placebo. if not, incredible monitoring chain accuracy

0.25dB is very audible here. But whether it, or 0,5dB is really needed, that's another story.

[ZED Sounds]

To answer the actual question by the original poster. I know for a fact that in a lot of dance/ club music, the mastering engineer will low pass filter the high freq's so they drop off sharply after 18khz.

The point of this is to cut off frequencies that don't actually add anything to your mix. Chances are that the 18-20khz range will be spikey, just hiss or inaudible to most people and can therefore be taken away.

To all the guys who are saying that mp3's are cut off after x frequency. This was true, but the latest mp3 encoders write 320k so the frequencies go up to 22khz in the top end so don't be so quick to facepalm the guy.

[SweetLossy]

Originally Posted by ZED Sounds

To all the guys who are saying that mp3's are cut off after x frequency. This was true, but the latest mp3 encoders write 320k so the frequencies go up to 22khz in the top end so don't be so quick to facepalm the guy.

Abslutely.
Attached a 20kHz sine MP3 created directly from Reaper.

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