How to get "roundness" on low bass frequencies,like on old records?

[dreambeats]

Hello everybody! Does anyone of you know how to get low bass sound "round" nowdays? Here is one example of what i mean:

Bob Marley - Slave Driver - YouTube

I have tried several tape and tube emulation plugins, bass compression with multiband,eq,but did not find a similar character of sound. Is it a completely "lost art"? Thanks.

[MASSIVE Master]

(Without even listening)

You generally don't "make a mix" or "work a master" to get that sound. You start with core sounds, performance and arrangement that naturally create that sound.

If the same bunch were to get together with the same gear using the same sounds today (or if you could go back in time and simply replace the recording deck with a 24-bit digital recording system of some sort), the end product would sound surprisingly similar.

[SASMastering]

(after listening)

Does not sound specifically "low" to me, boom box and headphones play all notes nicely, certainly has a certain mellow tone to it.Sounds a shade distant and reverberant to my ear on headphones, though could be Youtubeness.

Bass instrument, isolation of instrument (or not), player, bass amp, producer, preamp, recording medium and mixer will all have a part to play in the recorded sound. Just like mastering, a nice chain of good kit and people who know what they are doing.

We are arguably speaking of some of the best musicians in the world, they know their stuff. I liked listening.
Not to mention a music form embedded in Caribbean culture with a unique sound, and often rule breaking production
means.

I was lucky enough to work with this guy on a radio programme and it was great getting a chance to chill and talk with him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIwZbn26eJc

I love these videos (-2VU ! ) :

Lee Scratch Perry, you cannot tell me that that producers energy did not influence that music in a major way. He is as close as you can get to being the music, that side of the glass.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y651C...eature=related

[Franco]

(without listening because I have heard that track millions of times cus I love Bob's music)

Have you tried recording optimally? Don't saturate your tracks on the way in, with digital that is, IMHO, the biggest downfall to not being able to achieve the sound you're looking for when mixing and later, mastering.

If you track/record at your interface's "sweet spot", you should have the necessary room to add things like the UAD Ampex and then maybe add a touch of "tube" process from something like a HEDD 192k and that will make things sound nice and rich and warm and delicious. I know because that's how I get it. I'll PM you a track I mixed and then mastered (don't want people think I'm spamming here).

Good luck!

[jammybastard]

Originally Posted by SASMastering

Lee Scratch Perry, you cannot tell me that that producers energy did not influence that music in a major way. He is as close as you can get to being the music, that side of the glass.

Lee Scratch Perry - Studio Black Ark - YouTube

Huge fan of Scratch, never seen that footage before! Thanks for sharing.

As far as getting that "roundness" on your bass signal...when I was a musician I was told it all started with the player's fingers, then the pre-amp.
Look at the Motown, LA Wrecking Crew, or reggae bass players. One thing in common: soft touch & good pre-amps.
Plugins can't create something that's not there to begin with.

[ORC]

Flatwound strings on a Fender P or J bass. Mic the bass amp instead of using a D.I. or use both. Having a Pultec eqp-1 around is always nice for adding roundess to the low end.

[chopstickkk]

Originally Posted by jammybastard

Huge fan of Scratch, never seen that footage before! Thanks for sharing.

Yes awesome video great post!

[dreambeats]

Thanks for answers so far.
I must say that character of sound that i am looking for is not only in dub records.

Here is an other examples:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaCAFba9G98

Gil Scott Heron - Home Is Where The Hatred Is - YouTube

I almost never heard that type of "roundness" on records that are made, let's say-after 1980,except this track:

A girl called Eddy - Somebody hurt you - YouTube
maybe here is somebody who recorded,mixed or mastered this!?

Maybe it is tape and tube gear in all stages of production!??

[dreambeats]

Originally Posted by ORC

Flatwound strings on a Fender P or J bass. Mic the bass amp instead of using a D.I. or use both. Having a Pultec eqp-1 around is always nice for adding roundess to the low end.

Thank You for suggestions!!!

[Red Mastering]

I know this song very well, so I will answer regarding original mix
it's all at the start -
Musician, instrument, amp - this creates 85-maybe 90% of sound
mixing mastering - it's just addition,
if you don't get it in a first place...then....

[basmartin]

Originally Posted by ORC

Flatwound strings on a Fender P or J bass. Mic the bass amp instead of using a D.I. or use both. Having a Pultec eqp-1 around is always nice for adding roundess to the low end.

There you go! Although I mostly use roundwounds, flats tend record very well.

[lu432]

Originally Posted by ORC

Flatwound strings on a Fender P or J bass. Mic the bass amp instead of using a D.I. or use both. Having a Pultec eqp-1 around is always nice for adding roundess to the low end.

Also record straight into a 2" tape machine like they did back in the old days. That will finish the job off

[strdsk]

(Without listening because I also am a huge fan) Composition, gear, and performance is a huge part. Can't go wrong with flat wounds on a P-Bass, through a 15 inch driver, and mic'd. Having said all that, leakage during recording was a HUGE part of all the greatest tunes we've been weaned on hearing. These days, engineers deem that as unprofessional....crazy. Leaking CAN be magical glue that holds a recording together. With that, you're not hearing an up close Neumann only on a bass rig for example. You're hearing that, plus ambience spilling over into drum mics 20 feet away, plus a vocal or guitar mic running through a different EQ/pre/comp module perhaps. Tuff Gong was way ahead of it's time in my opinion. Some of the finest sounding recordings ever!

[grandmasters]

Originally Posted by dreambeats

Hello everybody! Does anyone of you know how to get low bass sound "round" nowdays? Here is one example of what i mean:

Bob Marley - Slave Driver - YouTube

I have tried several tape and tube emulation plugins, bass compression with multiband,eq,but did not find a similar character of sound. Is it a completely "lost art"? Thanks.

Wide eq strokes like Passive or BAX helps. For example the SPL PASSEQ, Pultec Type eq Shelving or Dangerous Music BAX EQ. At least that's how I 'round out' the bass on program material.

[SASMastering]

Bass guitar tone has got the least to do with mastering as in any post I have ever seen, nothing to do with mastering eq IMO.
Unless you are working with stems.

[TankT34]

Originally Posted by strdsk

Having said all that, leakage during recording was a HUGE part of all the greatest tunes we've been weaned on hearing. These days, engineers deem that as unprofessional....crazy. Leaking CAN be magical glue that holds a recording together. With that, you're not hearing an up close Neumann only on a bass rig for example. You're hearing that, plus ambience spilling over into drum mics 20 feet away, plus a vocal or guitar mic running through a different EQ/pre/comp module perhaps. Tuff Gong was way ahead of it's time in my opinion. Some of the finest sounding recordings ever!

you mention leaking as a magical glue -which I agree
suprized there is no plugin for that yet on the market

[SASMastering]

You're hearing that, plus ambience spilling over into drum mics 20 feet away

It is a good point. It can also be a problem especially when you have distances that equate to delays the ear can hear, 20ft from a drum kit (especially the snare) into a vocal mic can really ruin your day in direct to stereo recording, producing a fairly washed out and ill defined drum sound.

[Jim Williams]

A direct coupled audio path. DC to ?

That way your system avoids introducing phase shift, everything is tight and round. Low end has never been easier for me when the caps were removed from the system. Top is is nicer too.

[rakkaus]

this is very easy. leave the bass as it should be. just equalise it.