Good 2 track tape recorders to learn on?

[Joe_caithness]

In a mastering and mixing to (2 track) context. What are some good 2 track tape decks/makes/things to know/look out for.

I'm talking no more than 800 dollars or so, I've seen all sorts around that price, Otari, Tascam, few Ampex, Sony, but have no idea what any of these are actually going to sound like.

Looking to have a play essentially, maybe use on a few of my own and my friends projects with the aim of learning the format for clients of mine who might be interested in a "to tape" or "from tape" service, which there are quite a few in the hardcore/punk world in which half my business comes from.

thanks in advance!

[Greg Reierson]

I've seen Otari MTR-10s in that ballpark. That would be a great first deck. Stable and reliable. Also consider MCI JH-110, Ampex 440, Revox B77 (or PR-99), Technics 1500, some Sony and Tascam/Teac models. A bit lower down my list would be Otari 5050, Revox A77, Teac/Tascam 32, Akai, etc.

Or you could just pop for an ATR or an A80.


GR

[Joe_caithness]

Thanks Greg, clear and concise as ever.

[sat159p1]

Originally Posted by Joe_caithness

In a mastering and mixing to (2 track) context. What are some good 2 track tape decks/makes/things to know/look out for.

I'm talking no more than 800 dollars or so, I've seen all sorts around that price, Otari, Tascam, few Ampex, Sony, but have no idea what any of these are actually going to sound like.

Looking to have a play essentially, maybe use on a few of my own and my friends projects with the aim of learning the format for clients of mine who might be interested in a "to tape" or "from tape" service, which there are quite a few in the hardcore/punk world in which half my business comes from.

thanks in advance!

This would be hard to get decent machine for that price... I mean, you probably can get a nice M15 or A80 but they will have to be calibrated, re-capped, aligned, some other parts replaced (rubbers,heads and transport things). And this will be another 800 or more.

I do "digital files to tape transfers" on M15 (not M15A) and it's a really wonderful thing especially for indie/rock/punk stuff.

[Joe_caithness]

Originally Posted by sat159p1

This would be hard to get decent machine for that price... I mean, you probably can get a nice M15 or A80 but they will have to be calibrated, re-capped, aligned, some other parts replaced (rubbers,heads and transport things). And this will be another 800 or more.

I do "digital files to tape transfers" on M15 (not M15A) and it's a really wonderful thing especially for indie/rock/punk stuff.

Who makes the M15?

[wado1942]

Well, let's see... I got an Otari 5050MKII for $350 in great shape, an AMPEX 440C for free with both 1/4" and 1/2" head blocks. My former room mate got a TASCAM 32 for $250 that looked like it just rolled out of the factory. Any one of those machines will do the job. I'd look out for a 440C because, they seem to fall through the cracks in auctions because they're not current names like TASCAM but are better machines. They're HIGHLY modular and easy to fix/modify. No, they're not as gentle on the tape as newer machines, but with a little TLC and some modification, there's no reason one can't come close to the same performance specs as an ATR or Studer machine for a third of the price.

[Mr. Tom]

Tele M15
Studer B67

Both nice and easy...

Good luck!

[Joe_caithness]

Anyone ever use a PIONEER RT707?

[sat159p1]

Originally Posted by Joe_caithness

Who makes the M15?

Sorry,

meant Telefunken M15.

These guys have a lot of high-end tape stuff, well maintained and calibrated:
HILPERT-AUDIO.DE - AEG - Telefunken - magnetophon

[wado1942]

Originally Posted by Joe_caithness

Anyone ever use a PIONEER RT707?

Forget it, consumer grade stuff.

[inlinenl]

Telefunken & otari prices are not that hyped ... M15 would be nice ...

[pinkheadedbug]

I got a Revox PR99 MkII for around a grand recently. Brand new heads, fantastic sounding machine. Factor in a calibration tape.

[Thomas W. Bethe]

Originally Posted by Greg Reierson

I've seen Otari MTR-10s in that ballpark. That would be a great first deck. Stable and reliable. Also consider MCI JH-110, Ampex 440, Revox B77 (or PR-99), Technics 1500, some Sony and Tascam/Teac models. A bit lower down my list would be Otari 5050, Revox A77, Teac/Tascam 32, Akai, etc.

Or you could just pop for an ATR or an A80.


GR

Bingo! Tascam also made a Model 52 that I had for a while and I sold it for about $800 to a friend and he is still using it. They also made an ATR-60 which was a VERY GOOD machine and would be an excellent purchase if you can find one. Recently an industrial surplus warehouse near here got in a lot of Otari 5050B MKIIs and some higher end Otari machines that they were selling for $50 to $150 each. They came from the VOA and were in rather good shape considering. They went on sale on a Friday and by Tuesday of the following week they were all gone. A lot of people still love tape.

[bendermastering]

I just got into tape recently and as sat159p1 said calibrating, re-capping, aligning, getting parts will probably cost you as much as the machine itself in this price range.

Also you'll need to have some other stuff like the MRL tapes, reels or the demagnetizer. All those things makes the cost of having a good sounding tape machine go up!

[Jerry Tubb]

Yes analog tape mastering is a whole universe unto itself.

But a very worthy and enjoyable one.

Since many of the machines were built back in the 70s & 80s,

the maintenance and TLC is ongoing (never ending), but part of the fun.

Like others stated, I'd find a pre-owned Pro machine from a good home.

Ampex, Studer, Otari, MCI, Tascam, etc...

Revox B-77 (15ips) might be a good starter, although the I/O is unbalanced.

We spent a small fortune restoring and maintaining our ATR-102,

but as someone said "it's got that special Mojo sound that makes people smile".

JT

[jamesp]

I'd say that a Revox B77 is a good start and work upwards from there. I didn't like the Tascam 30 series but apparently the 40 and 50 series are much better. The Fostex E2 might also be worth looking for. Apart from those Tascam and Fostex machines, I'd avoid any of the Japanese hifi manufacturers.

I see that there's a Studer A62 going cheap on the SOS reader's ads.

James.

[wado1942]

The TASCAM 30, 40 & 50 series machines are electronically and mechanically almost identical. The 50s are just geared more towards the pro market with balanced I/O & a few other small details. The 40 series is somewhere in between.

The reason I'd see to avoid TASCAM 32, 42, 52 etc. is that all the units sold in the U.S. are NAB.

[Joe_caithness]

There is a Telefunken M15a going dead cheap with an hour or so to go on Ebay, shame it's miles away from me and I don't have a car! Just thought some folks lurking this thread might be feeling impulsive.

[sat159p1]

Originally Posted by Joe_caithness

There is a Telefunken M15a going dead cheap with an hour or so to go on Ebay, shame it's miles away from me and I don't have a car! Just thought some folks lurking this thread might be feeling impulsive.

How cheap was that? Did you buy it?

There are some major difference between M15 and M15A.
M15 is built completely without ICs, it has discrete circuits. The M15A is newer, post 1975 production with IC's, some newer electronics inside. I've never heard the "A" unit. People who compared these say that both sounded awesome, but slightly different towards the M15 being more "pure" and warm.

[Joe_caithness]

Originally Posted by sat159p1

How cheap was that? Did you buy it?

There are some major difference between M15 and M15A.
M15 is built completely without ICs, it has discrete circuits. The M15A is newer, post 1975 production with IC's, some newer electronics inside. I've never heard the "A" unit. People who compared these say that both sounded awesome, but slightly different towards the M15 being more "pure" and warm.

No I did not buy it! It seems like the auction has ended and I didn't watch it so I can't see how much it went for!

What kind of price would people suggest a Studer A807 in good nick should cost these days?

[acorneau]

There's a M15A on eBay right now...

TELEFUNKEN M15A (4263345330027) | eBay

[hank alrich]

Originally Posted by Jerry Tubb

Yes analog tape mastering is a whole universe unto itself.
<snipitty doo dah>
We spent a small fortune restoring and maintaining our ATR-102

Thank you for doing that. Seriously.

but as someone said "it's got that special Mojo sound that makes people smile".

JT

Not only that, when we put 32-year old tape on it, it not only sounded good, we could also be confident that nothing was going to get shredded.

The Cobras LIVE & DEADLY

[inlinenl]

here are about 6 telefunken for sale ... M15/M15A/M21 ... they send it out they say ..

Tonbandgeräte | Aufnahmegeräte | Spring Air

[Dave Rose]

Good thread Joe, I'd been toying with this idea for a while, be interested to see how you get on. Good luck!

[Jerry Tubb]

Originally Posted by hank alrich

Thank you for doing that. Seriously.

Not only that, when we put 32-year old tape on it, it not only sounded good, we could also be confident that nothing was going to get shredded.

The Cobras LIVE & DEADLY

Good to see you here Hank!

And those tapes were perfectly preserved over the decades.

JT

[strdsk]

Joe...I had a Pioneer RT707 years ago and sadly agree that it was a little too far into the consumer realm to be useful. Was noisy...and not in a good way...lol!

[Joe_caithness]

Quick questions regarding the Revox A range, there seems to be some listed online as both 2 and 4 track, is it the same unit, or a different version? finding it hard to work out, thanks!

[Thomas W. Bethe]

Originally Posted by Joe_caithness

Quick questions regarding the Revox A range, there seems to be some listed online as both 2 and 4 track, is it the same unit, or a different version? finding it hard to work out, thanks!

They came in both 1/2 track and 1/4 track stereo models. I owned one of each.

[Theramax9]

Otari 5050 MKII. Usable quality, workhorse, should be able to find one pretty cheap.

[jamesp]

There are lots of different versions of the A77. For studio use you probably want the high speed (HS) version which should be half track (also called 2 track). Watch out for head wear as some of these machines are very well used.

James.