Easiest , Cheapest way to burn red book cd-da d.a.o. ISO ?

[lukejs]

I'm on Mac, and want to author a red book CD-DA with PQ codes, track names, ISRC codes, and all the usual suspect metadata... Do I have to buy a software package to create this ISO disc , or is there a free option out there which I can use ? If not, what should I get ? What's the best, cheapest option that would also let me do error checking of the cd ? I appreciate any tips !! Thanks !

[jamesp]

To do error checking you will have to load Windows onto your Mac and then run something like Opti Drive Control with a compatible drive. To the best of my knowledge, there are only 2 software developers writing this kind of software and they're both Windows only.

If you can find a suitable old Plextor drive you can download Plextools for free to do the burning and error checking.

I believe that there are also free command line tools that will run on a Mac that will take a .cue file and burn a CD from it. You may have to write the .cue file yourself but it isn't that hard.

James.

[Rick Hoekman]

Not free but the most straight forward and reliable program to create a Red Book CD:

DDP Creator - Sonoris Audio Engineering

[Greg Reierson]

Originally Posted by Rick Hoekman

Not free but the most straight forward and reliable program to create a Red Book CD:

DDP Creator - Sonoris Audio Engineering

No such thing as an ISO for CD-DA. DDP is the way to go and Sonoris and Tonic are great.


GR

[Jerry Tubb]

Good - Cheap - Fast

Pick any two.

(to the exclusion of the third)

Sonoris DDP and soundBlade LE would be good choices.

JT

[RRCHON]

If you are comfortable in a Unix shell, DDP Mastering for the Command line .

Creating the image though seems to only be 1/2 your request :(

Burning, surface checking and CRC can also be done from the shell as long as you are willing to capitulate to the limits of you patience and equipment.

[Petrus]

Wave Editor costs only $79.99, does DDP and burns disks. Also has the best SRC and dither in business.

Audiofile Engineering - Wave Editor

[rogerbrain]

Originally Posted by Petrus

Wave Editor costs only $79.99, does DDP and burns disks. Also has the best SRC and dither in business.

Audiofile Engineering - Wave Editor

agree

[lukejs]

thanks guys ! Wave Editor looks like it might be worth buying !

[ritelec]

I don't mean to cut in but quickly,

I use logic and premaster in Pro tools le. Then bring that into Logic Wave Burner.
Rather than setting up premaster in Logics Wave Burner, it was suggested to get and do it in DDP Creator.

Originally Posted by Rick Hoekman

Not free but the most straight forward and reliable program to create a Red Book CD:

DDP Creator - Sonoris Audio Engineering

So as I get my songs in order to get it to the premaster point.... I've been preparing when the time comes to go for the DDP Creator.

Now I'm seeing this.

Originally Posted by Petrus

Wave Editor costs only $79.99, does DDP and burns disks. Also has the best SRC and dither in business.

Audiofile Engineering - Wave Editor

I don't understand. DDP seams to have import functions ( all mixing would be done in Pro Tools) and basically it only has "type in" information to create ddp and isrc etc... info. DDP costing about $300.

Now with this Wave Editor..... It seams to have all the bells and whistles to be able to mix the wave form (Fades/Time) in that program, create ddp and list iscr codes etc..... at $80.

I'm missing something......... should I keep my direction on picking up DDP Creator or rethink this and go for Wave Editor?

What's the difference between the two.....that Wave Editor seams to give you more than DDP Creator but DDP Creator cost almost 4X as much?




Thanks lukejs for bringing this up.
Thanks guys for your responses.

Rich

[trmchenry]

You can learn cue sheet syntax here digitalx.org

You can feed that into a lot of different burning programs. A free one I like to recommend is called ImgBurn. Of course, this only applies to Windows.

[ritelec]

Thank you for the read. Will read again and around.
Will examine both (WE -DDPC) very carefully, see if I can figure it out.

[Mike H]

Originally Posted by ritelec

Thank you for the read. Will read again and around.
Will examine both (WE -DDPC) very carefully, see if I can figure it out.

What did you conclude?
I have Wave Editor and use it all the time to convert 88.2/24 WAV files from Pro Tools HD to 44.1/16 AAC files. It uses the Izotope algorithms for sample rate conversion and dithering, which are excellent. So I would continue to use Wave Editor for this, even if I had another program for creating CD's.

However, I have not used Wave Editor to assemble CD's. I am concerned about its ease of use for this purpose, based on comments like this that it is difficult to adjust pauses between tracks:
Basic Mastering Guide in Wave Editor

I rarely create CD's, and would only need a program to assemble the CD and create DDP file or burn CD's......I do all mixing/mastering in Pro Tools. I am about to compare Wave Editor and DSP Quattro demo, so I am wondering if you found pause adjustment in Wave Editor to be a pain.

[ritelec]

Originally Posted by Mike H

What did you conclude?

Sorry Mike, but I haven't.

Funny, I was actually looking into the DSP Quattro today after reading a post.

So now I'll be looking at the 3 , when I get to that point.

Could you please post your conclusion?

Much appreciated.

Rich

[Bookerv12]

Wave editor does a few things really well, but it is difficult to assemble masters with.
There are a lot of features that we all take for granted, such as dragging and dropping songs into a timeline, and having everything to the right move over accordingly.
WE doesn't do this.
If you have to go back and change something, it's a frustration PITA.
I'm hoping that they simplify it and fix problems.
I was one of the unfortunates who paid a few hundred bucks for it a few years ago after reading the promises.
Knowing what I know, I would buy something else that also will do DDP's.

[Mike H]

Originally Posted by Bookerv12

Wave editor does a few things really well, but it is difficult to assemble masters with.

Knowing what I know, I would buy something else that also will do DDP's.

In addition to testing Wave Editor (which I won't be able to tolerate for assembling CD's, based on your comments) and DSP Quattro, I am also going to demo soundBlade LE. It costs more than I like, but it seems to do everything I need. Anyone have any comments on soundBlade LE?

[Strut78]

Any program has a learning curve, but wave editor is actually great if you learn the work flow. It works more like photoshop adopting a layer work flow which is different to most daws in approach and user interface. Wavelab 7 and other programs have similar learning curves. Learn one well and stick to it for a while and it will become second nature.

[Bookerv12]

Originally Posted by Mike H

In addition to testing Wave Editor (which I won't be able to tolerate for assembling CD's, based on your comments) and DSP Quattro, I am also going to demo soundBlade LE. It costs more than I like, but it seems to do everything I need. Anyone have any comments on soundBlade LE?

I don't mean to bash WE...
It is actually a great program and they have pretty good support, but it really does add a lot of steps to an otherwise simple task.
I am seriously thinking of going to Soundblade now.

[grrrayson]

Originally Posted by ritelec

I'm missing something......... should I keep my direction on picking up DDP Creator or rethink this and go for Wave Editor?

What's the difference between the two.....that Wave Editor seams to give you more than DDP Creator but DDP Creator cost almost 4X as much?

Rich

I haven't used the DDP Creator but the workflow in Wave Editor for CD assembling is downright horrible and it's really buggy. I'd feel enraged if I'd paid hundreds for it as an above poster mentioned. Honestly it's so buggy I haven't even bothered sussing it all out with bug reports, forum posting and searching, emails to the makers, etc.

Originally Posted by Strut78

Any program has a learning curve, but wave editor is actually great if you learn the work flow. It works more like photoshop

The layers thing isn't a big deal when you just have two stereo tracks occasionally overlapping for a crossfade. I could understand people hating it or thinking it's brilliant either way but I just don't think it even really matters for this given purpose.

Originally Posted by Bookerv12

I don't mean to bash WE...
It is actually a great program and they have pretty good support, but it really does add a lot of steps to an otherwise simple task.
I am seriously thinking of going to Soundblade now.

I'll bash it a little. Even if it weren't rendered almost useless by all the bugs (fades not ending where they're supposed to, pops and clicks, snapping not working) the workflow is so bizarre and poorly designed that it would still be almost useless for CD assembling even if there were no bugs. The "track" selection is bizarre, the lack of a real "region" or "object" concept is bizarre, not being able to save on the fly is a huge drag, not being to A/B settings in the same file easily is a huge drag, lack of any sort of "ripple editing" is a huge drag...

I enjoy the analysis tool a lot. Having the Izoptope SRC and dither and being able to burn a CD quickly with it is cool for $79. It's worth it for that if you don't have anything better to use. Don't expect to get any detailed work done with it in any sort of reliable, timely, or professional manner.


I'm buying the DDP Creator as soon as I have the cash to blow or the next time I have a project come up that warrants it (as I'm not a mastering engineer but do occasionally have a need for this kind of thing), whichever comes first.

[ritelec]

g rrrayson,

Have you had a chance to compare to the DSP Quattro, or Soundblade Le.

I'm working up to the point of needing a pre cd software and had figured when the time comes that I would go for the DDP Creator.........but now I'm not sure.

Rich

AND....thanks for the input all.

[Bookerv12]

Originally Posted by grrrayson

I haven't used the DDP Creator but the workflow in Wave Editor for CD assembling is downright horrible and it's really buggy. I'd feel enraged if I'd paid hundreds for it as an above poster mentioned. Honestly it's so buggy I haven't even bothered sussing it all out with bug reports, forum posting and searching, emails to the makers, etc.




The layers thing isn't a big deal when you just have two stereo tracks occasionally overlapping for a crossfade. I could understand people hating it or thinking it's brilliant either way but I just don't think it even really matters for this given purpose.



I'll bash it a little. Even if it weren't rendered almost useless by all the bugs (fades not ending where they're supposed to, pops and clicks, snapping not working) the workflow is so bizarre and poorly designed that it would still be almost useless for CD assembling even if there were no bugs. The "track" selection is bizarre, the lack of a real "region" or "object" concept is bizarre, not being able to save on the fly is a huge drag, not being to A/B settings in the same file easily is a huge drag, lack of any sort of "ripple editing" is a huge drag...

I enjoy the analysis tool a lot. Having the Izoptope SRC and dither and being able to burn a CD quickly with it is cool for $79. It's worth it for that if you don't have anything better to use. Don't expect to get any detailed work done with it in any sort of reliable, timely, or professional manner.


I'm buying the DDP Creator as soon as I have the cash to blow or the next time I have a project come up that warrants it (as I'm not a mastering engineer but do occasionally have a need for this kind of thing), whichever comes first.

You know what....
You are absolutely correct.
Now that the memories of frustration and crashing are coming back, WE is a pretty expensive, lame, random, poorly thought out bit of software.
It's been years now with no meaningful fixes.

[Thor]

I tried WE and bought it, think it's a great program, but I don't use it for mastering, assembly or anything else like that.

The layer based paradigm is great for sound design, might even be great for editing, although I don't see it.

For mastering, editing, assembly, delivery of DDPs and CD-DAs, I use soundBlade HD or LE, depending on the project. Yes you can do it cheaper (WE, f.x.), but why make things more difficult than they need to be? Great tools let you focus on the music and getting things dialed in, instead of wrestling with the application to get it to do what you want.

Just my 2 centavos.

Thor

[grrrayson]

Originally Posted by ritelec

g rrrayson,

Have you had a chance to compare to the DSP Quattro, or Soundblade Le.

I'm working up to the point of needing a pre cd software and had figured when the time comes that I would go for the DDP Creator.........but now I'm not sure.

Rich

AND....thanks for the input all.

I haven't, unfortunately. Honestly I'd love to use Samplitude for this but I don't like switching back and forth between Mac and Windows (and using Windows in general). I think I'd be fine with "pre-mastering" in Pro Tools and using DDP creator to actually make the disc. The upgrade prices with Soundblade look steep and I'd be getting a lot of redundant functionality with other software I have at that point. (I mostly record, edit, and mix with Pro Tools for a living and I'm an Izotope RX junkie too.)

I've used the branded DDP Player with Carl Saff, a local mastering engineer/super nice guy who sometimes posts here, and I like the straightforward simplicity of it.

Originally Posted by Bookerv12

You know what....
You are absolutely correct.

Ha! I feel a little bad for Audiofile Engineering now. Still, I couldn't have come up with such an inscrutable workflow even if I were specifically trying to.

Originally Posted by Thor

I tried WE and bought it, think it's a great program, but I don't use it for mastering, assembly or anything else like that.

"It works fine as long as you don't use it."

[Mike H]

Well, I tested both soundBlade and Wave Editor for arranging a CD and creating a DDP file. Now that all you knowledgeable guys have trashed Wave Editor, all I can say is that I had a much better experience with Wave Editor than soundBlade.

After reading the soundBlade manual, I fully intended to choose it. However, I had lots of problems when I tested soundBlade. First they sent the iLok authorizations for the wrong version. Once I got that corrected, I had problems getting any plug-ins to work in SE, until I finally got tech support to tell me that I had to "remove VST plug-ins from the Audio/VST folder that have AU equivalents." OK, if you say so.
Then I had a nightmare with spacing and fades. There is some dead space on some of the songs at the end, so I had to place some songs close together. SoundBlade couldn't deal with this and kept thinking the start of the 2nd song was the end of the first song......it would not accept my entries for start and stop times. I eventually figured out that I had to get more spacing between the songs, which was too much to be useable, but at least I got data entered. At this point I just tried burning a CD to see if this process worked OK, and I got solid noise. I left a phone message at Sonic studio for some help, and a week later I have never heard from them.

I am sure I am the cause of all of these problems, and that if I used soundBlade frequently I would learn it's quirks. But the fact is I won't be using it very often. It just seemed clunky and laborious to me, and not very intuitive.

On the other hand, I created a DDP file and a CD at the first sitting with Wave Editor. The Layer concept seems straight-forward to me, and I could Shift-Command and rearrange the files and alter the spacing very quickly. It was also easy to the create fades, then insert Track Labels, and then enter metadata. It all went pretty quickly.

Since I already own Wave Editor for sample rate conversion, removal of DC offset, and dithering, it is a no-brainer for me to choose Wave Editor to create DDP files and avoid spending money on soundBlade.

Like I say, I mix all the time in Pro Tools HD, but I don't end up actually creating DDP files very often. So you guys who do this all the time certainly knows tons more about it than I do. I'm just describing my personal experience as a mixer who needs a simple approach to creating DDP files on an infrequent basis.

My only suggestion to others who don't create DDP files very often is to demo before you spend any money based on recommendations from anyone, including me. You need to go through a learning experience anyway, so do it with demo's and buy the program that works best for you.

[grrrayson]

Originally Posted by Mike H

Now that all you knowledgeable guys have trashed Wave Editor, all I can say is that I had a much better experience with Wave Editor than soundBlade.

I am very genuinely happy for you that your experience with Wave Editor has been the exact opposite of mine. So far it's been the buggiest program I've used on this computer.

[Andy Krehm]

Originally Posted by Bookerv12

Wave editor does a few things really well, but it is difficult to assemble masters with.
There are a lot of features that we all take for granted, such as dragging and dropping songs into a timeline, and having everything to the right move over accordingly.
WE doesn't do this.
If you have to go back and change something, it's a frustration PITA.
I'm hoping that they simplify it and fix problems.
I was one of the unfortunates who paid a few hundred bucks for it a few years ago after reading the promises.
Knowing what I know, I would buy something else that also will do DDP's.

I also paid a lot of money for WE a few years ago and every year, when I read how it gets less and less expensive, I wonder if the company has given any thought to how that makes long-time users feel! Like maybe ripped off?

It's just the principle of the thing as given the total outlay I have made for studio construction and equipment, it really really is just the tiniest spec of sand in my insurance list!

As for assembling masters, for a guy that is used to the WaveBurner assembly flow (fast and easy!!) WE looks like a Frankenstein and i wouldn't think twice about trying to assemble masters in it! Well maybe if it was the last program on earth that could do it......

However, as was stated earlier, it has the excellent sounding iZotope SRC and dither which I use extensively so the purchase was well-worth it just for that. To be honest, I bought it just for that. At the time, the high-end choices for SRC programs on the MAC platform was Saracon and Wave Editor. I auditioned both and, since there wasn't any significant difference in the quality of conversion, I bought WE which was still quite a bit less expensive the Saracon, even at the old price. Now, it is an absolute steal!

We also use it to correct the CD-TEXT errors that are caused by making DDPs in WaveBurner.

[anrug]

Originally Posted by Andy Krehm

I bought WE which was still quite a bit less expensive the Saracon, even at the old price. Now, it is an absolute steal!

We also use it to correct the CD-TEXT errors that are caused by making DDPs in WaveBurner.

Would you mind elaborating on this a bit? Or do you know of other threads where I these errors have been discussed?

[Jerry Tubb]

Originally Posted by anrug

Would you mind elaborating on this a bit? Or do you know of other threads where I these errors have been discussed?

I know the details in depth.

Consult your local pro mastering engineer ; - )

JT

[anrug]

Originally Posted by Jerry Tubb

I know the details in depth.

Consult your local pro mastering engineer ; - )

I don't know a mastering engineer working with WaveBurner I have to say.

[Jerry Tubb]

Originally Posted by anrug

I don't know a mastering engineer working with WaveBurner I have to say.

Yep, Nick uses WaveBurner 1.6.1 in our Studio B for assembling masters,

then Sonoris DDP Creator to "repair" the metadata in WB generated DDP sets, as needed.

Apple has largely ignored WB for a couple of years, which is a shame, as it had much potential.

He does stellar work, and has cut well over a thousand masters in the last few years.

JT