ISRC Vs Tunecore ID
Old 10th December 2011
  #61
Gear addict
 

An ISRC code may be the accepted way of identifying digital music, but there doesn't seem to be a standard way of implementing it:
(1) The ID3V2.3 standard provides an ISRC field, but there is no way to enter it in the mp3 export for Pro Tools or Cubase or any of the the free tag editors that I tried.
(2) The Gracenote documentation for entering song info doesn't show an entry for it.
So is it just on a case by case basis depending on where you upload your music?
Old 10th December 2011
  #62
Gear addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by danika View Post
An ISRC code may be the accepted way of identifying digital music, but there doesn't seem to be a standard way of implementing it:
(1) The ID3V2.3 standard provides an ISRC field, but there is no way to enter it in the mp3 export for Pro Tools or Cubase or any of the the free tag editors that I tried.
(2) The Gracenote documentation for entering song info doesn't show an entry for it.
So is it just on a case by case basis depending on where you upload your music?

How to implement the ISRC code is clearly defined by IFPI.

The software to implement the ISRC code in batch processing is special software. I.e. one of this software is by a Taiwanese software company, another software by a Swiss software developer which also has the capability to implement the titles and artist names in 127 languages,

as well there is other software developed by other companies publishing houses, record companies and mastering engineer use.
Old 10th December 2011
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AngeloClematide View Post
How to implement the ISRC code is clearly defined by IFPI.

The software to implement the ISRC code in batch processing is special software. I.e. one of this software is by a Taiwanese software company, another software by a Swiss software developer which also has the capability to implement the titles and artist names in 127 languages,

as well there is other software developed by other companies publishing houses, record companies and mastering engineer use.
And what about the thousands of independent artists that upload their own songs? I accept what others have said that the ISRC code is the standard identifier for digital distribution. However, there is very little evidence that the implementation is consistent or that the code is actually embedded in the file metadata.
Old 10th December 2011
  #64
Gear addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by danika View Post
And what about the thousands of independent artists that upload their own songs?

I accept what others have said that the ISRC code is the standard identifier for digital distribution.

However, there is very little evidence that the implementation is consistent or that the code is actually embedded in the file metadata.

- If the licencee you licence your music to does not implement the ISRC code, and you still get all your royalties, then everything is okay.

- All major record company's tracks have the USRC code, as well all label which get distributed thru a major also have thew ISRC code. Also most independent label have th ISRC code in the sub-data, it would be not smart to not having the ISRC code in the sub-data, because then nobody ever sees a cent of air-play royalties.


- What some folks are doing on the free web with all their self-invented distribution models, that's a whole other story - My assumption is, as long you don't pay any fee to any of this sort distributor, when it is free, then take a change and do it. But if they charge you 50 bucks a month, then it is all about this fifty bucks they make on you.
Old 11th December 2011
  #65
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Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson View Post
Thanks, that never made it into the translation I read.
And it contradicts the FAQ from the IFPI that I quoted earlier.


GR
Old 11th December 2011
  #66
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ritelec's Avatar
 

WHERE'S JEFF?

Comes in...rustles some feathers and doesn't return...........


a true artist........leave them wanting more.





Thank you for the read all!



will be watching
Old 11th December 2011
  #67
Gear Head
 
BrianW's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Price View Post
ISRCs are a bunch of number and digits that you can choose to have associated with a song. Sort of like a UPC for a song

The RIAA sells them to artists for a fee

they claim this allows songs to be tracked in the digital music industry, they are wrong (and this would also mean that every artist in the US would have to pay the RIAA money for a code so they could "track" their sales).

The truth is as follows

Currently,

- ISRCs are not used by digital music stores for tracking of information
- ISRCS are not used by any Performing Rights Organization to track public performances
- ISRCS are not used by any mechanical royalty collection agency for collection or administration of royalties.
- ISRCS are not required by any law – be it state, federal or international
- Entities like an iTunes do not require ISRC codes in order for a song to be made available to buy and accounted back on
- There is no central database of ISRC used by any entity for tracking or royalty payments
- SoundExchange does not use ISRC codes

IN other words, they serve no purpose beyond you paying the RIAA some money

Jeff
Wow, I'm with the others. Thanks, Jeff, for posting this & showing true colors. I'll stop recommending clients to Tunecore effective immediately. (Just did exactly that 3 days ago - already sent an email retraction with reference to this thread)

So, if iTunes requires ISRCs, and Tunecore is distributing your material through iTunes, yet Tunecore claims to not use ISRCs, does that mean that Tunecore has some special agreement with iTunes foregoing the requirement or that Tunecore is assigning their own ISRCs to your songs with themselves as the publisher, thereby (as the OP eluded to with his "scary conspiracy undertone" comment) owning your digital distro rights forever unless you pay them every year?
Old 11th December 2011
  #68
Gear addict
 

Quote:
Currently,

- ISRCs are not used by digital music stores for tracking of information
- ISRCS are not used by any Performing Rights Organization to track public performances
- ISRCS are not used by any mechanical royalty collection agency for collection or administration of royalties.
- ISRCS are not required by any law – be it state, federal or international
- Entities like an iTunes do not require ISRC codes in order for a song to be made available to buy and accounted back on
- There is no central database of ISRC used by any entity for tracking or royalty payments
- SoundExchange does not use ISRC codes

IN other words, they serve no purpose beyond you paying the RIAA some money

That's how it is.


Add: "That's how it is in the USA"

Add: "Don't ask what your country can do for you...ask what you can do for your country."

Alter it to. "Don't ask what your lawyer can do for you...ask what you can do for your lawyer."

Then ask youself: "What is RIAA doing for me?"

Then ask youself: "What can I do for Tunecore?"

Then ask youself: "What is ASCAP & BMI doing for me?"

Then ask youself: "Why me poor sucker never get any royalties from outside the USA?"


and so on...
Old 11th December 2011
  #69
Gear Head
 
BrianW's Avatar
 

After a little looking around on TC's site, I think these faq items answer a couple questions that were asked:


Quote:
How do I get my free UPC/Song IDs from TuneCore before I upload?
We provide you with free UPCs and Song IDs if you leave the optional ISRC field blank...
So, the only way to get a "free" UPC code is to NOT have an ISRC?

Quote:
How do I take down my music from stores?
If you decide to remove your music, please know that:
All stores will permanently remove any reviews and comments
Your songs will be removed from any store playlists that include your music.
This music will be removed from your TuneCore Media Player(s).
If you decide to re-release this music you cannot use the same UPC/Song IDs as stores consider each release to be a new product.
So, you can take down your material, but the UPC is no longer valid.

And, finally, if you don't pay your renewal fee...

Quote:
Why was my music removed from stores?

In order for your music to remain live in stores for another year, you have to pay for its renewal fee. If the renewal fee has not been paid for 42 days after the renewal date, we automatically take down your music from stores.

We do send notifications to your account's registered email address before and after the renewal date, giving you a 42 day grace period to pay.

Once a release is removed from the stores, it is considered final and cannot be reversed.
So, to stay on topic (and maybe even answer the OP's original question?), I suppose it appears that the TC "Song ID's" are valid only for digital distribution through TC, and ISRC's are valid everywhere.
Old 11th December 2011
  #70
Gear interested
 

Thread Starter
Granted this is not from Jeff, but this is what I was told on the tuncore forum if you would like a good read.

ISRC vs. TuneCore Song ID - TuneCore Message Board

I think iTunes is doing a disservice to the recording community and independent music society as a whole if they allow tuncore to distribute using these made up non standardized codes. Especially when there is so much evidence that it is occurring.

I really don't understand how the RIAA allows them to be a member?

RIAA - Recording Industry Association of America


As for Tuncore, Every reply I get from them is filled with contradictions. It just reminds you that they are just another big business looking to make a quick buck at any cost possible. I most certainly will never recommend them to my clients again and hope to pass on all the information I find to as many people as possible.

This went from a very innocent question to a flood of WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON HERE!

-rikk
Old 11th December 2011
  #71
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianW View Post
After a little looking around on TC's site, I think these faq items answer a couple questions that were asked:




So, the only way to get a "free" UPC code is to NOT have an ISRC?



So, you can take down your material, but the UPC is no longer valid.

And, finally, if you don't pay your renewal fee...



So, to stay on topic (and maybe even answer the OP's original question?), I suppose it appears that the TC "Song ID's" are valid only for digital distribution through TC, and ISRC's are valid everywhere.

Thanks for this tho!

-rikk
Old 11th December 2011
  #72
Gear addict
 

I invented my own code this afternoon.

Pay me $65.99 bucks per month, and I distribute your music worldwide, as well place your songs in movies and tv-spots. I sell your song for min. $0.05 USD to max. $0,80 USD worldwide in over three hundred online stores, and to hundreds of millions of cell phone clients, and I pay you a fantastic $0,005 USD per sold song and make you rich.
Old 12th December 2011
  #73
Gear addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AngeloClematide View Post

- All major record company's tracks have the USRC code, as well all label which get distributed thru a major also have thew ISRC code. Also most independent label have th ISRC code in the sub-data, it would be not smart to not having the ISRC code in the sub-data, because then nobody ever sees a cent of air-play royalties.
No argument about CD's but I still haven't found any evidence of ISRC's in download file metadata. I used the Jaikoz tag editor (mentioned in several other threads here) to look at several download tracks from Amazon and several from iTunes, all published by major record companies. There were no ISRC codes in any of them.
Old 12th December 2011
  #74
Gear addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by danika View Post
No argument about CD's but I still haven't found any evidence of ISRC's in download file metadata. I used the Jaikoz tag editor (mentioned in several other threads here) to look at several download tracks from Amazon and several from iTunes, all published by major record companies. There were no ISRC codes in any of them.

There is no ISRC code in eMasters in formats like mp3, and in digital public broadcasting rights, distribution via SMS, MMS, eMail, http, ftp, GSM, CDMA/ CDMA2000 EVDO, HSCD, GPRS, EDGE, TD-SCDMA/ TD-HSDPA, W-CDMA/UMTS/3G and/or W-LAN/Wi-Fi/WiMAX.


The ISRC code serves the purpose to sample the data of Radio airplay. Every few second on a CD track there is the ISRC code, and the radio station forwards the data to the author society, and the author society knows down to the second how much time was aired, and you get a precise royalty statement for every second broadcasted.
Old 12th December 2011
  #75
Gear addict
 

damn, I should ask IFPI for a consulting honorarium

Old 12th December 2011
  #76
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Verified Member
i would add that there's is a way to encode the ISRC code into the id3 tags on an MP3 file... if it's any use, that's a different bag altogether...
Old 13th December 2011
  #77
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Thread Starter
“So you tell me, what value is there to an ISRC - a made up name for a bunch of numbers that you have to pay the RIAA for that serve no purpose,” – Jeff CEO tuncore

So much needs to be said here.

What value is there to an ISRC? What value is there to the dollar? The answer to both questions is none. There is no value unless we believe there is value. The code is not what I am defending it’s the ideas behind it.

What the ISRC code does for me is it puts me on an equal playing field, the same as “Big Label Artists”. Before the Internet, artists were paid by the CD sales and if the song was played on radio the artist would receive royalties. That’s why you joined BMI, ASCAP. To get paid. The problem was how music was tracked as being played. It was impossible for them to make sure each play was accurately tracked. The system allowed those who had the majority of plays to receive all the money while the little guys were lucky to see anything.

Fast forward to today. Now we have radio, Internet radio, streaming, digital downloads, and guess what… your music is now global once it hits the Internet. So-many more opportunities for your music to be heard internationally, so-many more ways for an artist to make money.

Enter ifpi (IFPI), & iso (ISO - International Organization for Standardization), and an International standard was born. The ISRC code (International Standard Recording Code). NOTICE NOT DEVELOPED BY THE RIAA. In 2000 the RIAA adopted this standard, and to obtain this code you can go through (ISRC - International Standard Recording Code). You will receive a code that starts with US for United States or now QM is also used.

Imagine this… An artist releases their track, it’s played in Germany – they get paid, it’s downloaded in Japan – they get paid, it’s streamed on a podcast in Oklahoma – they get paid. Every time the song is listened to or downloaded it is registered and entered into a database and the artist gets paid. If we can clone animals, make invisible fabric, split atoms… we can do this! With the social media revolution and friends sharing what they believe is quality music. This will allow music to be judged on the quality of its content, not the depth of the pocketbooks behind it or efficiency of its marketing team.

But if large players in this game make up their own rules…

“-ISRCS are not required by any law – be it state, federal or international”-Jeff Founder tuncore.

It’s too bad we have to make laws to make people play by the rules. When we used to play games my little niece would make up her own rules as the game went on, so she would always win. Fun for her, but that doesn’t make for a good (fair) game, but then again she was five.





“- SoundExchange does not use ISRC codes to track or make payments” –Jeff President tuncore

This is a lie or a severe skew of the truth. SoundExchange does not solely use ISRC codes; album title and label must be used if ISRC cannot be found. So I agree some work needs to be done here. Broadcasters must be provided with information on how to correctly read ISRC codes off of their media so it can be reported accurately. This is an area where if we address there is a problem, it can be fixed. Remember we are the atom smashers, so it can be done.

“A distributor can distribute a track to iTunes without an ISRC code and simply fill in a unique vendor ID field which is comprised of up to 256 alphanumeric characters” –Jeff CEO/Founder tuncore

Why then does iTunes ask for ISRC codes and not “unique vendor IDs”*? And why then do you fill out your codes to the same format as an ISRC code if you have 256 alphanumeric characters to choose from? TC8FF110001 is an ISRC code from the Turks and Caicos**. I find that interesting/confusing/scary.

*(Apple - iTunes - Partner Programs - Content Providers)
**(ISO - Page not found elements.htm)

What I don’t understand is why you have not been kicked off of iTunes.

“Our legal agreements with the digital music stores state we use TuneCore song identifiers, not ISRC codes, as the identifier” - Jeff President/CEO tuncore

If this is true, (I haven’t read your legal agreements) this is sad for the future of the independent musician and another victory for big business. I would recommend anyone who believes in this concept complain to your distributors for not enforcing INTERNATIONAL STANDARDS. In this case I believe that if iTunes is aware of what you are doing, they are doing the music industry a disservice.

To make this concept work we all need to work together. If you champion for independent musicians why would you act in this fashion, Jeff?

“No little red riding hood - I am not a wolf, I am your grandma.” -wolf

Jeff I realize you’re a CEO and this is your job, but sometimes there is more to it than saving a couple bucks in fees. You have to think big picture.

-rikk palmer
Old 13th December 2011
  #78
Gear interested
 

Thread Starter
Old 13th December 2011
  #79
Gear addict
 

Read the thread.

Does TuneCore charge the young talents a fee?

How much does TuneCore deduct from the sales price per sold song via iTunes?

How much of iTunes' $0.99 makes it to the composer who gave his music to TuneCore?

What does TuneCore's promotion department do for spreading the news around the globe, if they have any?



Quote:
Originally Posted by rikkpalmer View Post
If you are curious why this was so long , Or where the hell that came from you should follow this thread for more drama.

(ISRC vs. TuneCore Song ID - TuneCore Message Board)

-rikk
Old 13th December 2011
  #80
Gear addict
 

Does RIAA really charge a fee per allocated ISRC code?

Or is it in the USA the same as elsewhere, you pay a one time restristration fee, and the allocation of the code is free no matter how many thousands of tracks you must allocate a code to?
Old 13th December 2011
  #81
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by AngeloClematide View Post
Does RIAA really charge a fee per allocated ISRC code?

Or is it in the USA the same as elsewhere, you pay a one time restristration fee, and the allocation of the code is free no matter how many thousands of tracks you must allocate a code to?
It's a one time $75 registration fee. They didn't even charge that until a year ago.
Old 13th December 2011
  #82
Gear addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson View Post
It's a one time $75 registration fee. They didn't even charge that until a year ago.
that's real cost effective,

here the one time IFPI member restristration fee costs $580 USD, in Germany € 250
Old 14th December 2011
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AngeloClematide View Post
that's real cost effective,

here the one time IFPI member restristration fee costs $580 USD, in Germany € 250
i paid about 50 dollars for my first code, my company's code was free...
Old 15th December 2011
  #84
Founder, CEO, President - Tunecore
 
Jeff Price's Avatar
 

Sorry to burst bubbles here - but what I state is dead on, 100% accurate and true. You have been misled.

iTunes does NOT require ISRC codes - you can leave the metadata field blank and it will accept the track.

How do I know this? We have done it. I also spoke directly with Apple about it before we did it.

In regards to how how do I know the RIAA make money off it, they contacted me directly about two and a half years ago and threatened to sue TuneCore unless TuneCore bought ISRC codes from the RIAA. In the words of the person that contacted me it was a "shakedown" as they said TuneCore was "taking money out of their pocket".

I stated to them what I have posted here - there is no value nor functions to ISRC codes.

They are not used by PROs to track public performances, they are not used by SoundExchange, they are not required for digital distribution, there is no law that requires them, there is no central database that is used by all. They are simply arbitrary numbers that do not serve the purpose they were intended.

Further, there is a charge for these codes that do not serve the purpose they intend

As one hard example, I literally could use the ISRC code from "Beat It" as the ISRC code for my own song, send it to iTunes and iTunes will accept the track and still pay me, not Columbia Records.

Same on the publishing side.

In regards to costs, they use to charge by the ISRC - they have gone through some different pricing models over the years

BUt this I can assure you - TuneCore does not use ISRC codes, never has, and yet it is the largest music distribution company on the planet. Every single one of our customers has been paid every penny of their money.

Ober 12% of the music in iTunes was placed there by TuneCore.
Over 500,000,000 tracks have been sold or streamed from these tracks across all global music services
Over a quarter billion dollars has been earned by our customers

There also have been no conflicts with PROs, licenses, SoundExchange or anything else you can fathom

And over 99% of these tracks have no ISRC code.

Why?

because ISRC codes do not do what they tell you they do

You have simply been misled

There is no TuneCore song ID vs. ISRC - someone on this group made that up to try to be inflammatory

The truth is there is a system for the PROs governed by CISAC that issues unique identifiers at the song level that are not ISRCs

The digital stores issues their own identifiers

Thats it

My anger with the system is the made you pay them for something that simply does not do what they say.

In my opinion, they fooled you and took your money and it makes me sick.

Jeff
TuneCore
Old 15th December 2011
  #85
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taturana's Avatar
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Price View Post
Sorry to burst bubbles here - but what I state is dead on, 100% accurate and true. You have been misled.

iTunes does NOT require ISRC codes - you can leave the metadata field blank and it will accept the track.

How do I know this? We have done it. I also spoke directly with Apple about it before we did it.

In regards to how how do I know the RIAA make money off it, they contacted me directly about two and a half years ago and threatened to sue TuneCore unless TuneCore bought ISRC codes from the RIAA. In the words of the person that contacted me it was a "shakedown" as they said TuneCore was "taking money out of their pocket".

I stated to them what I have posted here - there is no value nor functions to ISRC codes.

They are not used by PROs to track public performances, they are not used by SoundExchange, they are not required for digital distribution, there is no law that requires them, there is no central database that is used by all. They are simply arbitrary numbers that do not serve the purpose they were intended.

Further, there is a charge for these codes that do not serve the purpose they intend

As one hard example, I literally could use the ISRC code from "Beat It" as the ISRC code for my own song, send it to iTunes and iTunes will accept the track and still pay me, not Columbia Records.

Same on the publishing side.

In regards to costs, they use to charge by the ISRC - they have gone through some different pricing models over the years

BUt this I can assure you - TuneCore does not use ISRC codes, never has, and yet it is the largest music distribution company on the planet. Every single one of our customers has been paid every penny of their money.

Ober 12% of the music in iTunes was placed there by TuneCore.
Over 500,000,000 tracks have been sold or streamed from these tracks across all global music services
Over a quarter billion dollars has been earned by our customers

There also have been no conflicts with PROs, licenses, SoundExchange or anything else you can fathom

And over 99% of these tracks have no ISRC code.

Why?

because ISRC codes do not do what they tell you they do

You have simply been misled

There is no TuneCore song ID vs. ISRC - someone on this group made that up to try to be inflammatory

The truth is there is a system for the PROs governed by CISAC that issues unique identifiers at the song level that are not ISRCs

The digital stores issues their own identifiers

Thats it

My anger with the system is the made you pay them for something that simply does not do what they say.

In my opinion, they fooled you and took your money and it makes me sick.

Jeff
TuneCore
absolutely unbelievable...
Old 15th December 2011
  #86
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Thread Starter
Am I wrong to think that it would be in the independent artist’s best interest to be represented by ONE international code and database. EVEN if we are not truly there yet with the ISRC.

You get play, you get paid. Regardless of where you are… I’ve seen great artists and songs not get what they disserve, and have seen crap thrive because of the business and marketing power behind it. This seams like the way to go. With Spotify for example if you are integrating social media and music - people will listen to what is good and recommended by their friends. Not just what ever can afford to make it to the radio.

You make the recording, you get the code, you encoded it to your physical and digital media, and then whatever music service - be it broadcast or download, would be able to efficiently and accurately track it back to the artist.

What benefit do we as artist’s get out of having everyone (Especially “the largest music distribution company on the planet”) using whatever system they feel like?

It doesn’t feel like “Big Brother” to me, because this is something we want to track… Right? Wrong?.....


-rikk palmer
Old 15th December 2011
  #87
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My understanding is that ISRC was widely adopted by broadcasters outside the United States. I also understand that US music that is getting worldwide exposure should expect more than 2/3 of its income from outside the United States due to much higher royalty rates. I also know that my friends who programmed music for satellite radio needed to provide ISRC codes to XM.

Now it is true that PROs have begun using "fingerprinting" technology to identify music that is being streamed and broadcast however I still have serious doubts about ignoring ISRCs being a very good idea for artists.
Old 15th December 2011
  #88
Gear addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson View Post
My understanding is that ISRC was widely adopted by broadcasters outside the United States. I also understand that US music that is getting worldwide exposure should expect more than 2/3 of its income from outside the United States due to much higher royalty rates. I also know that my friends who programmed music for satellite radio needed to provide ISRC codes to XM.

Now it is true that PROs have begun using "fingerprinting" technology to identify music that is being streamed and broadcast however I still have serious doubts about ignoring ISRCs being a very good idea for artists.

Yes. For example Germany: No songwriter will get a cent from airplay in Germany. German radio station don't play any music which doesn't include the ISRC code.


The 'fingerprint' works, but the code implemented in the sub-data is too slow and too heavy ti trace for millions of songs on the www. Apart from that, one company which developed one of this code, the police and the anti-pirate department of IFPI/RIAA became interested in also getting the tracing software, in order to chase people who download illegally.

The code can detect legal and illegal songs while the songs transfer from A to B, i.e. P2P - a very delicate matter considering that RIAA accused a poor housewife. The CEO was of the software company was pretty pissed because his intention where to give people who legally buy music a bonus, and not to bring people to jail.
Old 15th December 2011
  #89
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Thread Starter
"There is no TuneCore song ID vs. ISRC - someone on this group made that up to try to be inflammatory" - jeff ceo tuncore

"No actually a client asked me and was concerned about the difference and this is me trying to get answers, because I had been recommending your services." -rikk palmer


"BUt this I can assure you - TuneCore does not use ISRC codes, never has. " - Jeff

This is why I think your sketchy because you say things and then I keep finding contrary statements.

via this site. peter wells claiming tuncore did use ISRC codes in 2007.
What is an ISDN# and how does one obtain one?



-rikk palmer
Old 15th December 2011
  #90
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Hey guys! Well I just uploaded a song to Tunecore a month ago. $9.99 a year fee. NO ISRC required, although they give you the option to write it on there.

Hope i made a good choice. Have an album almost done...so now I'm not sure where to publish it. Thanks for this thread!

-Bex
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