Headroom for mastering

[habeski]

how much headroom is actually enough for a premastered track thats about to get mastered? Let me know what you Guys think

[nimblemongoose]

Originally Posted by habeski

how much headroom is actually enough for a premastered track thats about to get mastered? Let me know what you Guys think

As a mix engineer, it all depends on what I have on my master bus. I like to drive a tube limiter which means my peak level on the limiters back end is around -3 dbfs.

As a mastering engineer, I can deal with any levels as long as the track hasn't been clipped or peak limited leaving me no room to do my own cleaner limiting. If you have peaks hitting near zero it's no problem. It just means I have to gain stage a little differently.

[Rob Murray]

Just don't clip. Any ME can gainstage digital and analog so as long as nothing has been clipped you should be good.

[Chris Bauer]

Generally speaking, levels that peak between -6 to -3 dBFS are good to work with. Occasional higher peaks are not a tragedy, as long as no clipping occurs.

[habeski]

Sounds good so basically have a limit on the master channel and that will leave some headroom to be able to reach the -0.1 Db on the mastered track. Thanks guys appreciate it

[MASSIVE Master]

No, you don't want a limiter on the master channel. You want the mix to "naturally" not clip.

[habeski]

Ok makes sense.. But there's limiter that comes with a master channel on most daws. But anyway while mastering would you hard limit according to the lowest volume or what?

[MASSIVE Master]

You would push/limit according to the needs and potentials of the mix.

The point is to keep at least *some* measure of headroom at every possible stage -- The more the better in most cases. Ideally, (well, hardly "ideal" but for lack of a better term in the real world) you get to "use it up" once - Then it's gone. Track too hot, gone. Hit a buss too hard, gone. Sum too high, gone.

And in the current state of 24-bit recording, where you will universally have far more headroom than you'll ever realistically (or non-realistically for the most part) need, there is absolutely no advantage to using it up "too early" -- It won't help.

[oldeanalogueguy]

Originally Posted by habeski

how much headroom is actually enough for a premastered track thats about to get mastered? Let me know what you Guys think

never having been above -12 would be my preference
but if you never clipped it we can just lower it to what we need

if you clipped and then lowered it to -12 it would still come out like crapp

[Technologyworks]

Originally Posted by MASSIVE Master

Track too hot, gone. Hit a buss too hard, gone. Sum too high, gone.

And in the current state of 24-bit recording, where you will universally have far more headroom than you'll ever realistically (or non-realistically for the most part) need, there is absolutely no advantage to using it up "too early" -- It won't help.

Quoted for emphasis.

The best mixes I receive done totally ITB usually have VERY conservative levels.

[wado1942]

Originally Posted by Technologyworks

Quoted for emphasis.

The best mixes I receive done totally ITB usually have VERY conservative levels.

Seconded. The guys who insist on trying to make the mixes loud even without limiting usually sound a lot wimpier than those who don't care about how loud the mix is.

[StringBean]

Originally Posted by Technologyworks

The best mixes I receive done totally ITB usually have VERY conservative levels.

I'm just curious since you have lots of experience with mastering:

Isn't it good to start loud and cut volume as needed during mixing? I used to not care about levels and leave lots of headroom and my mixes did not sound better than they do now with good volume on each track...are you saying a soft mix with LOTS of limiting/compression on the mastering side will yield a better end result? You of course as the ME have all the great gear, so I could see why you would want lots and lots of headroom. But as the guy mixing it I would probably be concerned that I'm expecting the ME to do too much to a mix that is quite softer than commercial stuff.