hypex amps - very bright and forward ?

[fatgaz]

Hi,
I noticed a few mastering people use these amps (diy or commercial).

do they tend to be on the lean and forward side ? ie a bit bright ? ( a bit too 'hi-fi' than neutral? )

I'm tempted to build a pair of monoblocks, but fear they might not suit my speakers, which are a little bit bright in tonal balance. ( i think they were designed in the 80's with audio research amps used as a reference and those amps could easily have been quite warm)

I worry that references to 'revealing' and 'detailed' in ther posts might refect the above and result in a too fatigueing system.

I want reasonable detail and want power in reserve, so hypex is appealing.

sorry for the slightly imprecise post.

cheers all !

g.

[Bob Olhsson]

It's much better for the monitor to be fatiguing than for your masters to be fatiguing!

[arf]

Originally Posted by fatgaz

Hi,
I noticed a few mastering people use these amps (diy or commercial).

do they tend to be on the lean and forward side ? ie a bit bright ? ( a bit too 'hi-fi' than neutral? )

I'm tempted to build a pair of monoblocks, but fear they might not suit my speakers, which are a little bit bright in tonal balance. ( i think they were designed in the 80's with audio research amps used as a reference and those amps could easily have been quite warm)

I worry that references to 'revealing' and 'detailed' in ther posts might refect the above and result in a too fatigueing system.

I want reasonable detail and want power in reserve, so hypex is appealing.

sorry for the slightly imprecise post.

cheers all !

g.

To my ear, they are highly resolved and very smooth with plenty of power. No hype, IMO, very detailed and neutral.

[William Bowden]

I like them too and use the UCD700HR series here. They are pretty clear and spacious and have a kind of smooth liquid bass, I don't find them tiring though, they give you a good perspective I think, but like all things you have to learn what they mean. I found they showed up more detail in terms of what's actually there than my class A amps which was a benefit for me. And they have plenty of power but I don't run them very loud anyway.

King Willy

[sub-d0]

Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson

It's much better for the monitor to be fatiguing than for your masters to be fatiguing!

one thing for certain, this amps are neutral with load of power . not bright or not forward . try a pair if you can, try them with your monitors, the combination of the two...

[fatgaz]

Originally Posted by William Bowden

I like them too and use the UCD700HR series here. They are pretty clear and spacious and have a kind of smooth liquid bass

I know that I can improve my current amps to get far better clarity / spaciousness as tests with other amps have shown this. I would have bought some if they hadn't been so forward - for example one test track had a deep man's voice which, with the new test amps, lost the chesty bass resonance - so sounded totally wrong.

Smooth is an interesting word for the bass, I often hear people use lean or bloated to describe bass tonal balance and also to describe the fast controlled dynamic punch that high power SS can provide vs a wallowy slow tube-like bass.

A question about the 700 amps, did you ever compare them to the 400 amps ? I currently (passively) Bi-amp my speakers and I basically would have to choose between a pair of 700 mono-blocks or four 400 monoblocks for biamping.

I do wonder if much of the reason the speakers sounder better bi-amped was a reflection of my amp's failings rather than anything to do with the speaker/crossover. It may be that the 700 amps have sufficent drive for the speakers that biamping would have a less stark effect.

Only other issue with the hypex amps is the (still) imminent release of their new models (ncore) with a supposed significant step change in performance ( they claim an order of magnitute drop in distortion )

thanks for the opinions !

G.

[Greg Reierson]

Originally Posted by fatgaz

do they tend to be on the lean and forward side ? ie a bit bright ? ( a bit too 'hi-fi' than neutral? )!

Just the opposite. The hi-fi crowd doesn't like them because they don't have much of a sound of their own. That makes them a good choice for studio use.


GR

[Audiop]

Originally Posted by Greg Reierson

Just the opposite. The hi-fi crowd doesn't like them because they don't have much of a sound of their own. That makes them a good choice for studio use.


GR

Well that's the basic menaing with HiFi... high fidelity, not low fidelity. :-)

A component injecting colorations to the signal can't said to be HiFi in the strict sense. The HiFi and Audiophile buffs are people and as such they differ. A big part of that world search for their lifes for transparent and neutral gear. I'm one of them. The Hypex modules are extremly popular and a big hit in the HiFi DIY world.

Most of all I agree that a studio should use neutral gear (on the playback side of course) just as film and video people use calibrated monitors.


/Peter

[Greg Reierson]

Originally Posted by Audiop

Well that's the basic menaing with HiFi... high fidelity, not low fidelity. :-)

Oh, the irony... I should have said "audiophool".


GR

[Wave theory]

I auditioned a Hypex based amp. It was amazing. I wouldn't call it lean or forward at all. Fantastic bass control.

What I'd love to try would be bi-amping with something like a Pass Labs on the top, and Hypex on the bottom.

That said, I could be very happy with the Hypex amp running full range.

[Jim Williams]

I have used them and found them to be a tad plastic sounding. That improved when I removed the SOIC 5532 opamp buffers and either ran the modulator directly or replaced those opamps with National LME49720MA's.

They are wonderful as a bass guitar power amp. I prefer class AB linear designs with bipolar transistors for studio monitoring.

[arf]

I've heard a demo of the new nCore board and it was a pleasure to listen to and an education into how good an amplifier can sound in terms of pure ease of listening and musical enjoyment. Not sure when the boards will be available to DIY'ers as they are just starting to appear in some high-end brand name products. I certainly did not find anything at all about the new design that I would describe as plastic.

[klaukholm]

On my Lipinski L707, they are warmer and less bright than my Krell amps.
These amps are very very good!

[Thor]

I would say the amps are neutral - a wire with gain, more or less. Not bright and fatiguing or dark and muffled, just transparent.

We have 5 700W monoblocks for our 5.1 setup, and are very happy with the result.

Cheers,
Thor

[Virtalahde]

I'm running my actives with 4x 180HG's and 2x 400HG's. The sound is balanced and detailed, and doesn't get fatiguing at all.

When the nCore is out of testing.. I'm gonna jump on it.

[Adam Dempsey]

Originally Posted by arf

To my ear, they are highly resolved and very smooth with plenty of power. No hype, IMO, very detailed and neutral.

Agreed, on all counts.

[William Bowden]

Originally Posted by fatgaz

Smooth is an interesting word for the bass, I often hear people use lean or bloated to describe bass tonal balance and also to describe the fast controlled dynamic punch that high power SS can provide vs a wallowy slow tube-like bass.

A question about the 700 amps, did you ever compare them to the 400 amps ? I currently (passively) Bi-amp my speakers and I basically would have to choose between a pair of 700 mono-blocks or four 400 monoblocks for biamping.

I do wonder if much of the reason the speakers sounder better bi-amped was a reflection of my amp's failings rather than anything to do with the speaker/crossover. It may be that the 700 amps have sufficent drive for the speakers that biamping would have a less stark effect.

I haven't biamped yet but I have a pair of UCD400 that I'm hoping to try out with the 700s at some point. The main reason for this is to combat some deficiencies in the crossover (passive) which will be replaced (maybe) with an active crossover. It's either that or redesign a new passive crossover - but even then biamping might still sound better, not sure.

As for 'smooth' I guess that's as good a term as any, I feel like the bass is a clearly defined presence in the room that seems controlled and detailed. Some bassplayers have commented that they like the sound, one guy said he would never use a Class D amp on his bass - so opinions do vary widely. I feel any lack of bass control is down to the mix or my mastering rather than the amplifiers.

King Willy

[fatgaz]

Originally Posted by arf

I've heard a demo of the new nCore board and it was a pleasure to listen to and an education into how good an amplifier can sound in terms of pure ease of listening and musical enjoyment. Not sure when the boards will be available to DIY'ers as they are just starting to appear in some high-end brand name products. I certainly did not find anything at all about the new design that I would describe as plastic.

that's really interesting. I think that it's encouraging that hypex are taking their time to develop the new ncore modules. hopefully it will be right first time !

Did you get any info about the trickle-down of ncore ideas/parts to the ucd modules ? also did they say anything about the any preferred type of powersupply ? it looked like they have a new dedicated PSU module in their web site photos. The reason I ask is that it would be nice to know if I were to build an amp with the pre-existing modules that I could reuse the PSU for the ncore modules when they are released. I understand if there are confidential aspects to this !

Gareth.

[fatgaz]

Originally Posted by klaukholm

On my Lipinski L707, they are warmer and less bright than my Krell amps.
These amps are very very good!

Hi,

That is really encouraging to read regarding the Krell yardstick.

Along with all of the other posts on this thread that basically say 'not bright', I'm super tempted to buy myself an early Christmas present !

I have some elec eng colleagues that I can ask advice about building the things properly and safely. It looks to be fairly straight forward; No need to hand solder any PCBs.

G.

[fatgaz]

Originally Posted by fatgaz

Did you get any info about the trickle-down of ncore ideas/parts to the ucd modules ? also did they say anything about the any preferred type of powersupply ? it looked like they have a new dedicated PSU module in their web site photos. The reason I ask is that it would be nice to know if I were to build an amp with the pre-existing modules that I could reuse the PSU for the ncore modules when they are released. I understand if there are confidential aspects to this !

Gareth.

Opps, just re-read this page

Ncore Announcement

It seems that the ncore module is expected to work with the swithing PSU for the 700UcD amps ?

I'll try to contact hypex to check I think.

G.

[philip]

Those specs looks pretty amazing!

http://www.hypex.nl/docs/nc1200%20folder%20web.pdf

Does anyone know when they will start selling them? Price?

[arf]

Originally Posted by fatgaz

that's really interesting. I think that it's encouraging that hypex are taking their time to develop the new ncore modules. hopefully it will be right first time !

Did you get any info about the trickle-down of ncore ideas/parts to the ucd modules ? also did they say anything about the any preferred type of powersupply ? it looked like they have a new dedicated PSU module in their web site photos. The reason I ask is that it would be nice to know if I were to build an amp with the pre-existing modules that I could reuse the PSU for the ncore modules when they are released. I understand if there are confidential aspects to this !

Gareth.

In addition to making information available on the Hypex site, I believe Bruno posts from time to time on DIY forums answering questions regarding applications of the modules.

[fatgaz]

Originally Posted by philip

Those specs looks pretty amazing!

http://www.hypex.nl/docs/nc1200%20folder%20web.pdf

Does anyone know when they will start selling them? Price?

I did get a reply from the nice people at Hypex.

for DIY, they are intending a dedicated switched PSU.

as for timescales, they are still aiming for the end of this year for DIY parts launch.

For the sake of a month or two, I think I'll wait and see if I can get the ncore parts.
I've not seen anything negative regarding the ncore relative to the other hypex amps. I however have no idea about relative pricing.

Gareth.

For note, the rough total parts cost, (excluding a case)
2 UcD 400 monoblocks are about 750 quid (+ case(s)),
while the UcD700 amps using a shared 1200W SMPS are 1000 quid (+ a case).

[klaukholm]

I am listing a three channel ucd400 build in the classifieds as I am having a complete matched set built for my surround.

[WBM]

Pair of Mono-Bk UCD-400 HG in Studio and a 180HG in the living old Niles-x MTM give it to them a nice fully sound detailed not better than the Pass-Labs X250 that I love and bright depends with what set of cables and tweeter configuration.

[jdg]

its a system, the room, the speakers the amp... its a pain in the ass to match them all.

i did it by trial and error and the hypex used to work wonderfully in one room, and they didn't in other.. i was confused, hurt, and i cried for days on end...

so, try as many as you can afford and make the decisions based on those listening tests.

[RuvStyle]

My amp has two 400HG and two 400HG with HxR modules. To my ears they are neutral as HG, but even more as HG with HxR.

I hadn't the opportunity to make a reference check with a Bryston 4BSST, but to me it's wonderful to a reasonable price.

But, like jdg just said, it's the room, speakers and amp which need to work together. If you also did spend enough in room correction than Hypex will be a good choice.

[Riccardo]

I went from 4BSST to UCD 400 mono blocks (with HR). Both good amps. I find the Hypex more analytic and ruthless revealing mixing issues.

Can't wait to hear Ncore

[fatgaz]

Originally Posted by RuvStyle

My amp has two 400HG and two 400HG with HxR modules. To my ears they are neutral as HG, but even more as HG with HxR.

I did wonder about a bi-amp system with (cheaper) 400 amp for the low bass driver and best 400(HG+HxR) for the mid & top. encouraging that the amps work for you too.

But, like jdg just said, it's the room, speakers and amp which need to work together. If you also did spend enough in room correction than Hypex will be a good choice.

Absolutely. But I think that the next cost effective step for me is better amps.

If they are fairly flat amps, then I hope in the future that the speaker choice ( their position & the sub tuning etc.) will control the sound most.
I have some OK-ish acoustic treatment*, but I know that to improve it significantly more will probably require a different room !

G.

* helped when I worked out what type (density) of rockwool to use =60kg/m3. did require a fair amount of bass trapping too. keeps the room warm in winter. again a bit DIY and cheap, but I'm on a shoestring. It may be that a cleaner amp may make me consider the acoustics again...

[RuvStyle]

With Hypex you can get a high quality possibility to bi-amp for low-costs. I got a good deal on a used Hypex amp, so I don't know if I would build an amp which can do bi-amping when I did it DIY. I got some B&W 801 S3 connected to it and bi-amping gives me a slightly improvement.

If I were you, I would look for a good second-hand deal or build only two monos 400HG with HxR and save the money for better monitors, etc.

Bi-amping is nice, but therefore you have to have an adequate monitor chain.