Loudness with crushing

[Devon8822]

Doing my first master... how can I make the track as loud as possible without degrading the audio/participating in the loudness war? Pretty vague question but i am going to read a book on mastering soon, I just dont have the time at this time, so I just want to do a quick job of this. Any tips for how I can do this quick and easy would be appreciated.

[Cellotron]

The answer is unless you just simply increase the gain so that the highest peak in the entire track is at (or just below) 0.0dBFs (what used to be known as "normalizing") - is that you can't. What you can do is find the best combination of techniques to minimize any artifacts that result from increasing the average levels of the tracks you are working on. This takes time and practice to figure out - and it should be noted that each track might require different processing decisions in order to effect results that you and/or the client like the best.

Again - some of the basic techniques of increasing perceived loudness are:
* balancing the frequency spectrum (eq'ing) - generally with mids and upper mids slightly forward
* automating down any extraneous peaks so that the gain of the entire track can be raised by some amount (not necessarily done these days except in some classical or jazz mastering where the other techniques described below are more often not done)
* compression - either in analog or digital realms - not necessarily done in every case - but sometimes can help if elements of the mix are otherwise "unglued" from the main body of it
* saturation - not necessarily done in most cases
* clipping - either at the input of the ADC or via an analog or digital gain stage - this generally results in retaining more semblance of punch and snap but at a cost of increased distortion
* brickwall peak limiting - generally via a digital processor - this often results in less distortion than clipping but at a cost of lost punch and snap relative to it

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[Jim Williams]

You don't. You have a choice:

Shitty or good.

I like good.

The kids like shitty.

Flip a coin?

[Cheebs Goat]

Originally Posted by Jim Williams

You don't. You have a choice:

Shitty or good.

I like good.

The kids like shitty.

Flip a coin?

I doubt the kids actively like shitty.
But they certainly don't care, and they are not offered "good" as a choice. So...

[sat159p1]

They like shitty because it sound "better" on their shitty smartphone speaker than dynamic music

[SASMastering]

Without any disrespect to the O.P.

I did chuckle at "Loudness with crushing"

It is like it is obligatory, similar to a dessert... peaches and cream.

[ritelec]

Originally Posted by Jim Williams

You don't. You have a choice:

Shitty or good.

I like good.

The kids like shitty.

Flip a coin?

Originally Posted by Cheebs Goat

I doubt the kids actively like shitty.
But they certainly don't care, and they are not offered "good" as a choice. So...

Originally Posted by sat159p1

They like shitty because it sound "better" on their shitty smartphone speaker than dynamic music

The kids like shitty cause they don't know better.

[wado1942]

Originally Posted by Devon8822

how can I make the track as loud as possible without degrading the audio/participating in the loudness war?

That's a pretty major contradiction. If you don't want to participate in the loudness war, then just set the levels to where they sound good. If you want to make everything as loud as possible, you will be participating in the loudness war. As soon as a piece peaks at full-scale, that's as loud as it gets without degradation. All other things you do to get it even louder will degrade it, no way around it. I think I understand what you're asking but the question is, how loud do want it and how much degradation can you tolerate?

[erikdrink]

Originally Posted by Jim Williams

You don't. You have a choice:

Shitty or good.

I like good.

The kids like shitty.

Flip a coin?

[wado1942]

Originally Posted by H. Badger

Now we have the tricky task of telling them what's really going on. This may require a certain amount of finesse, since the kids are probably not going to be too happy when they find out they have been eating deodorized ****. Also, its possible that some of them may have gotten so used to the **** that they won't immediately like the chocolate better.

Well, the fast food restaurants have been literally feeding us this unspoken word... mixed with all sorts of other unspeakable things that have been "cleaned" by exposing them to ammonia. How else do you think McDonalds can pay like $0.50 per pound for their "meat"? What about when Taco Bell got sued because their meat didn't contain enough meat to be called meat? It's just a sign of the times. I, as an individual, have decided to buy non-crushed music and I buy only sliced meat that I can identify and prepare it myself. Education is key. If "the kids" don't ever hear what good audio is, they won't know. It's us types that got iTunes to do 256kbps downloads and us types will be the ones to raise eyebrows to less-crushed audio as well... though I admit I was doing masters just as hot as everybody else only a couple of years ago. In the mean time, I'm going to hit some of that left-over Halloween candy, which contains some chocolate.

[wado1942]

Originally Posted by H. Badger

But, judging from your posting for some time now, you have apparently made up your mind as an individual, and been able to get away from that craziness. So others may take note that it is possible to do so.

More or less. I won't lie and say my anti-loudness war reputation hasn't lost me clients, but it's also gained me some as well. I still do use limiters & other techniques for raising the level, but not nearly as much. I like to think I push it JUST hard enough that most discerning ears can't hear the process.

[polybonk]

Originally Posted by wado1942

I like to think I push it JUST hard enough that most discerning ears can't hear the process.

@Devon8822. Thats the delicate balance right there. How well and consistently you get there is really what experience is all about.

The big key to achieve this goal is (assuming that your monitoring and your understanding of your monitors are up for the task). Volume matching. That is the crucial technique.

Make sure that the moves you are making are properly volume matched against the original so that you know if you are making the track sound better and not just louder and worse. Even half a dB will be perceived initially as "better" regardless of if the signal is actually exactly the same or worse. (Worth keeping in mind when testing out plugins as well.)

[Devon8822]

Thanks Cellotron, "Normalizing" is exactly what I am after at this point! I will do that for now, and read Bob Katz's book in the near future.

Also, sorry about the thread title, I meant to write "Loudness without crushing", you can tell my original post was hastily written.

[ritelec]

Originally Posted by ritelec

The kids like shitty cause they don't know better.

My apologies. Writing this has been bothering me all night.

[LunchboxHo]

Originally Posted by ritelec

The kids like shitty cause they don't know better.

They like shitty because of discomorphosis..... Conditioning, basically.

[Greg Reierson]

Originally Posted by LunchboxHo

They like shitty because of discomorphosis..... Conditioning, basically.

I just had this conversation with a client. He said his listeners won't be able to tell the difference between a clipped mix and an un-clipped mix. Suddenly he realized what he had said and the light went on. We chose the un-clipped mix.


GR

[Jim Williams]

Originally Posted by ritelec

The kids like shitty cause they don't know better.

Yes they do, they don't care, it's FASHIONABLE.

When I was 6 years old I already figured out that I didn't like that fat bald guy yelling at me to buy a car during a Saturday morning commercial on Mighty Mouse.

That was my first bad experience with compression, I never forgot it.

[wado1942]

Live's "Throwing Copper" in 1994 was my first bad experience. I liked almost every song on that album but I couldn't listen to it for some reason...