Hardware RMS Meter?

[Chauvin]

Im looking for a hardware RMS meter in the region of £100-200?

I've got software RMS meters but there a pain, because if I want to see other artist tracks RMS levels, I have to open Logic, import the file, open the plugin just to check. So I would rather a permanent hardware RMS meter connected to my soundcard, so that I can see the RMS levels of whatever I play from my system, whether it be in Logic, Quicktime player, i-Tunes, internet etc.

Any suggestions, much appreciated




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[IIIrd]

Originally Posted by Chauvin

Im looking for a hardware RMS meter in the region of £100-200?

I've got software RMS meters but there a pain, because if I want to see other artist tracks RMS levels, I have to open Logic, import the file, open the plugin just to check. So I would rather a permanent hardware RMS meter connected to my soundcard, so that I can see the RMS levels of whatever I play from my system, whether it be in Logic, Quicktime player, i-Tunes, internet etc.

Any suggestions, much appreciated




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Only a thought but could you not compare tracks using your ears? Then take the Mrs for a nice meal with the money you've saved.

[Cheebs Goat]

The RMS thing has exploded around here... but it is a practically useless measurement. It is only sorta' part of the story with how loud a song sounds, and it is blindingly obvious what the louder song is with a half second listen.

What could possibly be quicker than playing two songs and hearing how much louder one is than the other?

Just avoid RMS readings. It's a time waster.

[acorneau]

If you're handy with building things you can find a pair of unused VU meters and take a tap off the analog(ue) outs of your sound card.

Although a medium-rare filet, grilled asparagus and a nice bordeaux wouldn't be bad either.

[Dene]

I can't think of anything in that price range short of buying and calibrating something off of EBAY other wise I can only think of the Logitek 2VUB and the Durrough's. Some limiters have them built in...ultimately they are handy to get yourself quickly in the ballpark but you will still need to fine tune with your ears

[Chauvin]

I always mix/master with my ears first and foremost, but then I will check my files with different meters afterwards.

It cant do any harm having good metering around you, but if you rely on it, then there's a problem.

(ps : The misses has been out for enough swanky meals lately )



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[IIIrd]

Originally Posted by Chauvin

I always mix/master with my ears first and foremost, but then I will check my files with different meters afterwards.

It cant do any harm having good metering around you, but if you rely on it, then there's a problem.

(ps : The misses has been out for enough swanky meals lately )



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Not a word that mine is familiar with ,

Meteringwise, it depends on what you're used to. I old fashioned VU's..big ones. Visible from the other side of the room, even with my failing eyesight.
got some digi ones for the digi stuff, only dBfs though...an analogue phase meter, thats about it.

They're tools and I'm not a slave to them. It can do no harm, but rms is kind of meaningless...PPM's and VU's would make a good pair.

[Cheebs Goat]

Originally Posted by Dene

...ultimately they are handy to get yourself quickly in the ballpark but you will still need to fine tune with your ears

Imagine you have two different sounds, each on a separate channel on a mixing board. They are muted. On the word "go", they will suddenly be unmuted and you have to get them to be about equal volume using the faders. How long would this task take you? 4 seconds? 2 seconds? 1 second?

How long would it take you to insert a plugin on each track to give you a rough ballpark for each track? I'm guessing longer than 2 seconds.

I doubt the meter is faster.

[MIKEHARRIS]

Dorrough meters are above budget...available for both analog & digital sources

Dorrough

[Dene]

Originally Posted by Cheebs Goat

Imagine you have two different sounds, each on a separate channel on a mixing board. They are muted. On the word "go", they will suddenly be unmuted and you have to get them to be about equal volume using the faders. How long would this task take you? 4 seconds? 2 seconds? 1 second?

How long would it take you to insert a plugin on each track to give you a rough ballpark for each track? I'm guessing longer than 2 seconds.

I doubt the meter is faster.

True, if we are talking about individual sounds...but I am working with entire songs...this past summer I mastered a compilation with 26 tracks...at that point what is faster?

Everyone's ears/brains are different...for me meters are a big help. For you maybe not...as long as the final tool used at the end of the day is your ears it doesn't matter.

[IIIrd]

Originally Posted by Dene

True, if we are talking about individual sounds...but I am working with entire songs...this past summer I mastered a compilation with 26 tracks...at that point what is faster?

Everyone's ears/brains are different...for me meters are a big help. For you maybe not...as long as the final tool used at the end of the day is your ears it doesn't matter.

Horses for courses really isn't it. I agree, trust and rely on your ears, but get the meter to confirm, what ever that breed of meter maybe....

[Rick Sutton]

Originally Posted by acorneau

If you're handy with building things you can find a pair of unused VU meters and take a tap off the analog(ue) outs of your sound card.

Probably stating the obvious but if you hang VU meters off of an output make sure you use buffer amps on the meters.

[Chauvin]

I found this interesting ppm/rms meter on Youtube which is the kind of thing Im looking for :-

New Hardware RMS/Peak Sound Level Meter with LEQ - YouTube


The Dorrough looks interesting, Im going to check it out




.

[Dene]

Originally Posted by IIIrd

Horses for courses really isn't it. I agree, trust and rely on your ears, but get the meter to confirm, what ever that breed of meter maybe....

Come to think about it you are right...meters offer a certain amount for consistency that our ears don't.
So the best case scenario requires both.

....That youtube video looks pretty cool.

[polybonk]

Chauvin is this a correct understanding of where you are coming from regarding your line of inquiry? You have a problem and you have a proposed solution.

Problem: You want to make compilations, albums etc and have the average listening level in the same comfortable ballpark?

Solution: Get an RMS meter.

[polybonk]

Well anyway assuming that is the problem then an RMS meter is not really a solution. They simply are not accurate in the way you want them to be.

A better solution would be to use a program like magix sequoia that allows you to have all the projects open at once.

If you want to rely on a meter then the new EBU R128 Metering is supposed to be the better option at tracking perceived averages. You will be running it in the red the whole time tho.

Personally I agree with everyone else here. Just use your ears.

[Ben F]

A VU meter is an RMS meter. It shows the average voltage with slow ballistics. You can make one for next to nothing, or buy a kit http://www.jlmaudio.com/shop/index.p...d&productId=65

[dcollins]

Originally Posted by Ben F

A VU meter is an RMS meter. It shows the average voltage with slow ballistics. You can make one for next to nothing, or buy a kit JLM Audio Shop - Stereo VU Meter kit

While VU is a useful indicator, it's not RMS. It's a particular form of averaging with a specified time-constant.


DC

[Franco]

One day, when people start buying albums again and my clients actually make a profit from the music they send me to master, I might open a commercial facility and when (if) that happens, I'm getting me a pair of Dorroughs because those definitely make people go "WOW!"

I only use plug-in metering (Inspector XL), the serious metering is done ITH (ears).

[Paul Gold]

If you really want an RMS meter than try a pair of HP 400's. Not standard audio meters but they look cool and the ballistics are pretty useful on the bench. Built in meter offsets!

[oldeanalogueguy]

Originally Posted by Chauvin

Im looking for a hardware RMS meter in the region of £100-200?

I've got software RMS meters but there a pain, because if I want to see other artist tracks RMS levels, I have to open Logic, import the file, open the plugin just to check. So I would rather a permanent hardware RMS meter connected to my soundcard, so that I can see the RMS levels of whatever I play from my system, whether it be in Logic, Quicktime player, i-Tunes, internet etc.

Any suggestions, much appreciated

.

build one
take any vu type meter (real meter not digital readout)
build an rc circuit with variable resistors including across the output

you can adjust it to get right voltage to drive meter
and time constant to give you rms over differing time periods
by just twisting the two knobs
once the voltage is set you could replace with fixed R
build it in a box with a knob for the time length
few bux
couple of hours

i did that long ago to measure the load on a LAN
too short you measure 100% when the packet is there
too long and you dont see the effective load that affects the throughput - should be similar principle for RMS of the music

maybe somebody has a kit

[oldeanalogueguy]

Originally Posted by Rick Sutton

Probably stating the obvious but if you hang VU meters off of an output make sure you use buffer amps on the meters.

if you use a large enough resistor you dont need the buffer amp
wont load the circuit
you are measuring voltage
dont need any current or power (that would matter)

[Ben F]

Originally Posted by dcollins

While VU is a useful indicator, it's not RMS. It's a particular form of averaging with a specified time-constant.


DC

Average voltage is close enough?

I've always found the old analogue VU meters pretty accurate.

[Thor]

+1 on the Dorroughs.

Love the ones we have in the studio, easy to read and a good visual confirmation of what you're hearing. Looks nice for the clients too

Thor

[dcollins]

Originally Posted by Ben F

Average voltage is close enough?

I've always found the old analogue VU meters pretty accurate.

Close enough. But not RMS.


DC