Mixing so your transients and snare aren't crushed!

[NewfoundlandRec]

Hey Guys

Any suggestions on how you "protect" your mixes from heavy handed mastering engineers. I have founda few mixes where I really liked the lowend and snare get abliterated and the stereo image collapses, the mids are too forward and it makes me wish I never bothered spending time on the mix.

Is there anything I can do differently ? I monitor with an L2 at the end of a mix just to see and it's fine, but when I have received final masters, it seems they must be pushing 8db of GR, because it is night and day.

[bendermastering]

Originally Posted by NewfoundlandRec

Hey Guys

Any suggestions on how you "protect" your mixes from heavy handed mastering engineers. I have founda few mixes where I really liked the lowend and snare get abliterated and the stereo image collapses, the mids are too forward and it makes me wish I never bothered spending time on the mix.

Is there anything I can do differently ? I monitor with an L2 at the end of a mix just to see and it's fine, but when I have received final masters, it seems they must be pushing 8db of GR, because it is night and day.

Just talk to your ME about that, he should be able to handle your request. If not, you should probably find some one who can delivery what you need.

There's no need to "protect" your mixes, just do what's the best for the mix.

[bryan k]

Are you purposely telling your ME to make your master loud as hell?

If he is doing 8db of gain reduction on your mix just to get to commercial volumes, then it sounds to me like you might want to make your mixes more "volume max ready".

....meaning you have to mix a certain way to achieve that "todays uber-loud master", compressing more on the individual tracks, really squashing stuff in the mix...

but if you dont want to do this, and want as more dynamic master....tell your ME to not make it so loud, and your mix will stay as you intended it to.

[Masterer]

Originally Posted by NewfoundlandRec

Hey Guys

Any suggestions on how you "protect" your mixes from heavy handed mastering engineers. I have founda few mixes where I really liked the lowend and snare get abliterated and the stereo image collapses, the mids are too forward and it makes me wish I never bothered spending time on the mix.

Is there anything I can do differently ? I monitor with an L2 at the end of a mix just to see and it's fine, but when I have received final masters, it seems they must be pushing 8db of GR, because it is night and day.

Your website says you offer mastering. You should know the answer if you're also a " mastering " engineer.

What's up with that?

[bryan k]

Ohhhh snap!

[monsieur x]

You also do live sound, I look forward to you mastering my album after a long night of live sound.

. . .

To answer your question though, if your mix had to change so much your mix was probably not that good because I don't suffer that much with the dozen mastering engineers or so I've had the pleasure of working with.

Perhaps you're doing something wrong.

Best,

[Peaks]

Doesn't every limiter have transient protection/destruction settings anyways? Continue digging there first.

[mowmow]

Tell mastering engineer that level war is over. LOL
They use limiter to make it louder but some transient might be gone.
They need to know if you prefer more levels or art.
But you need good mid rage though.
I didn't hear your songs so I can't tell if mastering engineer did a terrible job or not.

[huejahfink]

Can't someone ask a question without having their work history dissected?

I agree with Bender Mastering. Mix it the way you like, find an ME who you can communicate with easily, enjoy a great sounding result.

[monsieur x]

We're just trying to help him out, better he hear it from us than wonder why he's not getting any serious work. . .

It kind of makes him look like a joke, even though I'm sure he's not.

But really, he's just not equipped for mastering, he charges more than even than discmakers. How can that make sense when he doesn't even have full range monitors??

OP, you should probably update your website to better focus on your strengths and talents.

A friend,

[wado1942]

Crushing levels are forced on mastering engineers by clients, not the other way.

[tstu102]

If anybody has any insight into this, I would love to hear some advice instead of just ridicule. I too have similar problems.

I totally understand the "mix the way you want, and have open communication with the ME, or find a new ME" but the reality is this is not possible for a variety of reasons for me.

For instance, a specific question I have - if I am mixing into a buss compressor with slow attack and fast release, because it retains the punch of my track, is this actually raising the difference between RMS and peak value? as opposed to mixing into a shorter attack compressor, which may sacrifice punch, but make it more loud-friendly?

any help would be appreciated. thx.

[ORC]

Not trying to be rude, but if one doesn't know what one's buss compressor is actually doing, one probably shouldn't be using a buss compressor. As for the original post, I'd find a better mastering engineer. I VERY rarely use more than 2 db of gain reduction on my final digital limiter. I can get a client's mixes to -6db rms without going over 2db on my digital limiter. A masterinmg engineer must know his gear and how to achieve optimum gain structure throughout. That being said, I prefer clients that let me stay around -8db rms. Some "mastering" engineers are very heavy handed with compression, eq, and limiting, and these "masters" usually have a really strong sonic signature. My philosophy is different. I try to get in, and get out without anyone knowing I've been there, except the music sounds better, and is at the requested volume level.

[tstu102]

So, then, how does one learn how to use buss compression if one isn't allowed to use it until they fully understand it?

I learn by using my ear, then asking further experiences regarding other peoples experience.

[Dene]

@NewfoundlandRec ok so...you are asking the age old question how to protect your mixes from a bad "masterer"...the answer is you can't. If you are mixing for clients on a regular basis you might think about suggesting a decent ME to your clients...

@tstu102 we are talking about heavy handed ME's...if your stuck with a heavy handed ME who you cannot communicate with...2 bus compression is not going to help you no matter what you do since he/she will probably just compress it more. If I was trapped in that scenario I would probably go with some 2 bus EQ, but no compression.
But that is worse case scenario stuff...

[Dene]

Originally Posted by tstu102

So, then, how does one learn how to use buss compression if one isn't allowed to use it until they fully understand it?

I learn by using my ear, then asking further experiences regarding other peoples experience.

Not to be rude, but should I assume you understand what a compressor does?

[ORC]

Originally Posted by tstu102

So, then, how does one learn how to use buss compression if one isn't allowed to use it until they fully understand it?

I learn by using my ear, then asking further experiences regarding other peoples experience.

Let's start here: What are you using for a 2 buss compressor?

[tstu102]

yes, I know what a compressor does.

I generally use the waves SSL G compressor because I worked on an SSL 4000 and fell in love with the real thing. To me the plugin does not sound very similar, but compared to other plugins I like it. I also like the API 2500 plugin.

I listen at an extreme amount of gain reduction, get a nice, rhythmic pump going, then reduce the threshold till I'm getting at most 2 dB gain reduction.

I have a feeling I should just be compressing my individual tracks more, on second thought I don't think the buss compression I'm doing is causing any major problems.

[Karloff70]

Originally Posted by tstu102

So, then, how does one learn how to use buss compression if one isn't allowed to use it until they fully understand it?

I learn by using my ear, then asking further experiences regarding other peoples experience.

One takes the view that one is allowed to do what the f*** one likes. And hence then one does indeed learn by ear oneself. Usually by overcooking the new technique for a while and then scaling back to more appropriate behaviour as familiarity and judgement develops.

To the OP, if your mastering engineer is killing your stuff, why not hire one that wouldn't. What most people would do.

[Karloff70]

Originally Posted by tstu102

yes, I know what a compressor does.

I generally use the waves SSL G compressor because I worked on an SSL 4000 and fell in love with the real thing. To me the plugin does not sound very similar, but compared to other plugins I like it. I also like the API 2500 plugin.

I listen at an extreme amount of gain reduction, get a nice, rhythmic pump going, then reduce the threshold till I'm getting at most 2 dB gain reduction.

I have a feeling I should just be compressing my individual tracks more, on second thought I don't think the buss compression I'm doing is causing any major problems.

I have a feeling your feeling is right on. I would just trust it more.

[ORC]

Originally Posted by tstu102

yes, I know what a compressor does.

I generally use the waves SSL G compressor because I worked on an SSL 4000 and fell in love with the real thing. To me the plugin does not sound very similar, but compared to other plugins I like it. I also like the API 2500 plugin.

I listen at an extreme amount of gain reduction, get a nice, rhythmic pump going, then reduce the threshold till I'm getting at most 2 dB gain reduction.

I have a feeling I should just be compressing my individual tracks more, on second thought I don't think the buss compression I'm doing is causing any major problems.

Do you start mixing with your buss comp strapped across the 2 buss, or are you adding it later?

[WhiteRhino]

I would assume if your losing your transients its most likely because of your attack time on your compressors...

[Dene]

ORC is asking the write questions....chat with ya'll later....