Mastering Beginner

[kjohnson]

Hey all. Im new here, and I had a question about beginner mastering. I have always wanted to get into recording, but I have several friends who already have home studios and stuff. So I figured rather than invest in building a regular studio like they have, I could work on/invest in a mastering studio.

Heres the catch. I dont have a big budget right now at all. Im hoping to still make it work since I will mostly be doing lower budget stuff, or even free stuff for friends as Im getting my feet wet. My buddies are working on several lower budget projects for other friends, so I figured it would be a good time to get a little rig set up.

My question is what order should I buy my gear? Im looking at getting a little interface (probably an apagee duet 2) and some software (recommendations??). A buddy suggested I settle for using my computer/home theater/car speakers until I can afford some legit studio monitors as I cant afford everything at once. And that I should use all of those things anyways even if I did have nice monitors. Does that sound like a good call??

And I know some of you professionals might be sick to your stomach hearing me talk about using all this cheap gear for my low end budget. Just remember, its mostly for fun right now and hopefully over time could turn into something more.

Basically, if I had $1000 to get started, what are the first/most basic (and affordable) things I should get? And dont laugh too hard at me...

[Waltz Mastering]

Originally Posted by kjohnson

Basically, if I had $1000 to get started, what are the first/most basic (and affordable) things I should get? And dont laugh too hard at me...

I would spend your money on Owens Corning 703 fiberglass, rock wool and fabric. Spend some time reading about and getting your acoustics set in your room. Then buy a good set of monitors. Any kind of gear will be secondary to a having a good listening environment.

[mmarra]

Originally Posted by Waltz Mastering

I would spend your money on Owens Corning 703 fiberglass, rock wool and fabric. Spend some time reading about and getting your acoustics set in your room. Then buy a good set of monitors. Any kind of gear will be secondary to a having a good listening environment.

+1 with regards to Waltz's advice. I was in your position about 5 yrs ago and this is also how I started building my mastering room/studio. A DIY approach will save you money and more importantly teach you about room acoustics and proper monitoring for your room.

[wado1942]

I tell you, I did it backwards and completely regret it. I started by trying to acquire equipment & software and didn't have any decent monitoring or room treatment for a couple of years. When I finally got some monitors (not great BTW, but better than nothing) stands and started treating my room, my work got better overnight. You can get some basic software & plugins to at least get a feel for what you're doing for little or no money so you can spend your money on the listening side first. Then when you get more money later, you can sink that into better gear & software.

[MASSIVE Master]

I'd bet most of us did in one way or another... If I could go back in time and spend the first $10k I spent on gear and put it all into the monitoring chain and room treatments, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

[stefa]

Originally Posted by MASSIVE Master

I'd bet most of us did in one way or another... If I could go back in time and spend the first $10k I spent on gear and put it all into the monitoring chain and room treatments, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

[kjohnson]

Thanks for the replies so far!

Of course.. this isnt what I wanted to hear!! Haha. Honestly, I didnt even think about setting room acoustics. That shows what a noob I am...

After seeing how much everything is, Im wondering if its even possible for me. I always wanted a regular recording studio but since so many people I work with have one now, I figured this route may be better for me. We dont really know anyone who ONLY masters. Sure, I would suck at it at first, but Im sure I can learn a little here and there. I just figured it would be best to go ahead and get some gear and learn how to use it, especially since nothing I do will sound that great anyways starting out.

If it matters, the room I was going to set up in is pretty small. Its a spare bedroom. Is the goal to have the room sound pretty dead? Is there any cheaper way to say "ghetto rig" it for now? Or should I really just buy sound panels now, then have to wait to actually get some gear?

[MASSIVE Master]

If you're "young in the game" this is the best time to learn the two rules of audio:

Of course, everyone says there are no "rules" but there are. At least two...

1) No matter your years of experience, no matter how well-defined your listening skills, no matter tens of thousands of dollars in gear, computers plugs, outboard, etc., you will only ever hear as accurately as your monitoring chain will allow you to hear. Period. End of story, no exceptions, etc.

2) No matter how wonderfully accurate and consistent your monitoring chain may be, no matter if it goes from 10Hz all the way up to infra-red and past radar and microwaves, your monitoring will only ever be as accurate and consistent as the room they're in allows them to be (again with the "period" and "end of story" stuff).

All that said - I'm not a professional acoustician or acoustical engineer. But this is almost universally a decent starting point in a typical space of typical construction:

Basic Room Setup for Dummies | Articles

[oldeanalogueguy]

Originally Posted by kjohnson

Hey all. Im new here, and I had a question about beginner mastering. I have always wanted to get into recording, but I have several friends who already have home studios and stuff. So I figured rather than invest in building a regular studio like they have, I could work on/invest in a mastering studio.

Heres the catch. I dont have a big budget right now at all. Im hoping to still make it work since I will mostly be doing lower budget stuff, or even free stuff for friends as Im getting my feet wet. My buddies are working on several lower budget projects for other friends, so I figured it would be a good time to get a little rig set up.

My question is what order should I buy my gear? Im looking at getting a little interface (probably an apagee duet 2) and some software (recommendations??). A buddy suggested I settle for using my computer/home theater/car speakers until I can afford some legit studio monitors as I cant afford everything at once. And that I should use all of those things anyways even if I did have nice monitors. Does that sound like a good call??

And I know some of you professionals might be sick to your stomach hearing me talk about using all this cheap gear for my low end budget. Just remember, its mostly for fun right now and hopefully over time could turn into something more.

Basically, if I had $1000 to get started, what are the first/most basic (and affordable) things I should get? And dont laugh too hard at me...

you need in this order:
pc
interface
daw
headphones
pair of mikes
that leaves you just enough for cables, mike stand, etc.
add get some free plugs to get experience with

then learn how to track and edit , then mix, finally master

when you got another G to spend
then get more software
and good speakers - no you dont need expensive "monitors" yet

when you are good enough you can tweak the room and splurge on monitors


if you buy rockwool now for a grand
all you can do is look at it

you can learn plenty before you waste money on room tweaking. plenty of time to do that when you approach expert level with your tools.

[kjohnson]

Understood.

I really dont know what to do. My plan was to get my own copy of logic (rather than using other peoples studios), a decent interface, and settle for waveburner for now. I know a guy who uses it from time to time and he said it would be ok to start learning on. Im leaning toward getting some HS80s. I know those are like toy speakers compared to what the professionals use, but with this set up I could at least learn my way around some of these programs and work on some recording projects as well.

Im going to look at some of these materials for treating my room, and Im going to keep reading and learning. If anyone has anything else to add, feel free.

[StringBean]

for $1k you could probly get a pair of hs80's, a decent interface, and some room treatment. it's a good start man

[NEWTON IN ORBIT]

Have you spent time in the trenches doing the recording / production thing? Are you a musician?

IMHE, mastering is not something you can just jump into, and decide to take on as a profession. Or hobby either for that matter. I guess you could do it for a hobby maybe...

Most really talented and proficient mastering engineers have spent years on both sides of the glass, or at least been engineers in a recording studio for a long while before moving on to mastering.

I saw the thread title ---Mastering Beginner...and thought oh boy....

I am not trying to be negative, just throwing out my experience to play "Devil's Advocate" here.

I just can't even imagine anybody doing this job without several years of experience enigneering first.

Not to sound mean and burst any bubbles here, but I certainly would NOT give my work to somebody that started off mastering, and skipped the engineering thing altogether. Not unless they had a proven track record, and a lot of really good material in their catalog.

Thing is, people that are likely to have this catalog and discography, almost always were musicians, then engineers before starting a career as a Mastering Engineer.

I'm sure there are some who have done it without, and are good, but working with an ME that has produciton experience is a big deal to me. They understand what went into making the recordings I send them, and what can and can't be done in a multitrack environment.

Even better if they are musicians as well.

There is an empathy there, that cannot be had unless both people are coming from the same background. Just is what it is.

To me going from no studio experience to being a Mastering Engineer, is like saying "I want to go to college, but skip high school".

Just a thought.

No, I am not a mastering engineer, but a plain old recording engineer / studio owner.

I send my masters to people that have more experience, and more experienced ears than I. People who are likely to have worked on many records that are similar to the one I am sending them.

Good luck my friend,
john

[kjohnson]

Thanks guys!

And i certainly understand what you are saying. And yes, I am a musician. I do contract guitar work and teach a little bit during the week to fill in the gaps. Ive always wanted to have my own studio but Im always scared to drop a lot of cash. Ha! Ive done a lot of studio stuff and have worked with friends on projects with them, but Ive never really been in the drivers seat. Thats what I want to happen.

And after some research, I am in complete agreement that its hard to just "start out" mastering. I think Im going to work on getting some simple studio stuff. And I gotta keep it simple. I live in a town house, so I cant make too much noise. That rules out drums, but I have several places I can do drums other than here. I just got a Duet 2. Gotta come up with a copy of Logic, and get my HS80s. I have friends who have also offered to let me borrow other gear (preamps, compressors, etc) until I can get my own. For now, Im gonna get used to being in the drivers seat as far as producing goes and along the way maybe spend a little more time learning about mastering than the average engineer would. Sometimes I get frustrated because Ive always wanted to have a studio and the next thing I know, time gets away from me and everyone has a studio EXCEPT me! Ha!

The mastering thing was just an idea I got this morning. I was like "Hey! I could work on this and make this my thing." Like I said, we dont know many people who "do" mastering. Thanks for the kind words and encouragement. And forgive me in advance if I make a fool of myself on here. Im still learning!

[Freematik]

Totally agree with Newton in Orbit here, and it's not a diss in anyway. It actually makes a lot of sense to specialize in mastering from a marketing and business perspective, as the proliferation of home studios has created a bigger demand for mastering then ever before...

But mastering is, with few exceptions, best done by people who have had their ears in projects for decades... these guys have usually done thousands of mixes, and by doing that, have developed an ear that tells them that the vocal is too loud, that the bass is squashed etc.

This really does take many years to develop, and there is no shortcut, you really can't just hope to get lucky and get a feel for this type of stuff.

I say all this because I thought the exact same thing as you when I was younger, and could all see all this potential work, because I knew tons of local studios... but I'm really glad I didn't pursue mastering at the time and instead concentrated on just general studio work, tracking vocals, mixing songs, etc. Years of tracking vocals have made me not only track vocals better, but also mix better, and now that I'm mixing better, I can "hear" what is required way better than when I was just going into a mix shooting from the hip, like I did when I was younger...

Now occasionally I will master an album if one of these home studios wants me to, but by spending many hours tracking and mixing, I now can get by a lot better on these gigs.

Just my 2 cents...

[cananball]

Originally Posted by MASSIVE Master;71!

Basic Room Setup for Dummies | Articles

This thing says don't let the speakers point directly at your head, instead let the speakers converge 2-4 feet behind your head. Never heard this before. Has anyone else? Guess it kind makes sense so the L R speakers hit your L R ears before the converge and combine signals, but I have always made my head the third point on the equilateral triangle.



Sent from my DROIDX using Gearslutz.com App

[MASSIVE Master]

I only use that as a mild suggestion and really only for nearfields -- My speakers wouldn't converge for around 20 feet behind me (that's not even in the same room).

I'm not going to get proper imaging if the left speaker is blaring into my right ear...

If you haven't tried it, I'd very much suggest it. I used to have them converge just behind me -- changed everything when I really spread them out.

Your head should be the third point on the triangle for distance -- Not for angle. You can probably imagine (well heck - Just listen to it) the overlap and smearing of the image if they're aimed right at you...

[sat159p1]

Guys,

He just want to know what he should do to BEGIN "mastering" with $1000.... and YOU always suggest

"treat your room first"
"hire a pro"
"buy good monitors, but $1000 is way to less"

etc.

This is just crazy bullsh*t. If the guy has good ears, know his equipment well (I mean, headphones, monitors, gear) he is able to start mastering-like services with $1000 in the pocket. Without spending much on the room treatment, new super hi-end gear. This will come later, when you earn some serious money - of course that will happen if you're more than good!

I suggest getting Wave Editor app, Ozone 4 (so, all-in-one) plugins and good reference headphones. This is actually a good low-end start. And dont tell me it isntt possible.

BTW may pro recordings are so f*cked up that I can't believe that the're selling in millions (and was accepted before release!!!). On the other side, I heard here on GS so many "I made it by myself on mac" excellent mixes and masters, that I'm excited that it happens and proud of these amateur people with $1000 setup doing better things than major studios with $100000 equpiment....

[matucha]

Treat your room in efficient DIY fashion. Read about acoustics first, read as much as you can and ask questions. Post your solution and let someone expirienced comment/adjust it for you.
~70% can be done cheap and easily if you have idea what to do.
Positioning your monitors in your room is big part of this, few inches can mean difference between almost flat or peaky/absent bass.

Buy as good monitors as you can. Most of the sub $1000 won't really do, so just pick some nice 2nd hand ones which you can resell later for without loosing money. Better monitors will be your priority upgrade.
High headrom, deep lowend extension, unrestricted dynamics, low distortion... this comes at price and without it you won't be able to distinguish properly lots of problems and you may flatten/distort some pretty good things without realizing it.

Buy some nice headphones. AKG K702 (after burned in) will give you 2nd perspective on what you do, leavin room out of the picture and giving you idea about sub bass, space, distortion, details cheap monitors won't provide.

Get to know your monitors and headphones on as much music you can and always check your work on both.

[Greg Reierson]

Originally Posted by cananball

This thing says don't let the speakers point directly at your head, instead let the speakers converge 2-4 feet behind your head. Never heard this before.

PMC recommends it for their large monitors. I think Tannoy did as well.


GR

[Freematik]

Originally Posted by sat159p1

Guys,

He just want to know what he should do to BEGIN "mastering" with $1000.... and YOU always suggest

"treat your room first"
"hire a pro"
"buy good monitors, but $1000 is way to less"

etc.

This is just crazy bullsh*t. If the guy has good ears, know his equipment well (I mean, headphones, monitors, gear) he is able to start mastering-like services with $1000 in the pocket. Without spending much on the room treatment, new super hi-end gear. This will come later, when you earn some serious money - of course that will happen if you're more than good!

I suggest getting Wave Editor app, Ozone 4 (so, all-in-one) plugins and good reference headphones. This is actually a good low-end start. And dont tell me it isntt possible.

BTW may pro recordings are so f*cked up that I can't believe that the're selling in millions (and was accepted before release!!!). On the other side, I heard here on GS so many "I made it by myself on mac" excellent mixes and masters, that I'm excited that it happens and proud of these amateur people with $1000 setup doing better things than major studios with $100000 equpiment....

The fact that you can find some "pro" recordings that are bad and some amateur recordings that are great does not mean an amateur with good ears can do professional mastering with plugins and headphones as you suggest.

And what does "good ears" mean? Sure, someone can have a good ear for tone... but without years of critical listening while making adjustments to EQ's and compressors, the person is really just "winging it", and this can sometimes work, but sometimes isn't good enough for professional work.

The headphones/plugins/not much studio experience engineer might get lucky on a project that is mixed well, that just needs some sweetening, but on the next project, there might be some major adjustments needed on a track by track basis, and this amateur will not know what to do.

All I'm saying is this notion that a young person with very little studio experience, can use izotope and headphones and be a mastering engineer sounds great and wonderful, but in practice one of the reason there are a lot of sh**ty recordings out today.

Also, the OP (BTW no disrespect to the OP on this whole thing, he asked a valid question that is worth exploring) DID seem to appreciate the feedback as far as considering room treatment, listening area, etc. as these are VERY valid points.

It might seem cynical and mundane to point these things out, but they are also true and way more helpful than "YOU CAN DO IT" which is fun to say and believe, but really doesn't help anyone.

[wado1942]

Originally Posted by sat159p1

This is just crazy bullsh*t. If the guy has good ears, know his equipment well (I mean, headphones, monitors, gear) he is able to start mastering-like services with $1000 in the pocket. Without spending much on the room treatment, new super hi-end gear. This will come later, when you earn some serious money - of course that will happen if you're more than good!

Would you tell a movie editor to buy a bunch of software before he had a proper monitor to view what he's making? Sure, you can learn how everything looks dark and unsaturated on your 21" computer screen. That knowledge doesn't really help you do color correction for a 20' movie screen does it? Think about all the defects in image quality you'll miss, looking at a window within a 1024 x 768 LCD screen vs. a 4,000 line film print. And yes, I can almost always tell when even regular SDTV commercials are edited entirely on computer screens without the use of proper NTSC video monitors.

For a small room, you can make decent, broadband, DIY acoustic absorption for under $300 that can really improve most small room issues. You can get some colored, but full range monitors and subwoofer for under $500 on the used market. That leaves enough money to buy some proper monitor stands, cables and an SPL meter. You can get by with cheap/free software a lot easier than little/no monitoring or room treatment. I spent two years trying to learn my first control room & monitors but always had problems with my work. I was always looking at an FFT graph to try and figure out where I went wrong. Then I moved to a different room and without changing any equipment or software (but added some broadband traps and really took my time setting up the room), my work was noticeably better. I revisited older masters I did and went "wow, that's where I went wrong". I added a subwoofer and literally overnight, my masters were better still. My latest room isn't done yet, but I started planning where to put walls, equipment etc. before I even started construction because I know that will make it better still.

BTW, I know a lot of crap comes out of so-called "pro" studios, but I'll bet not many of them have proper monitoring or even engineers who know the limitations of those monitors. You think you have a bearing on the sound till you move your head 2CM and all of a sudden, some of those notches at 160Hz x2, x4, x8 etc. are gone, but now there's spikes in the same ranges. There's a "pro" studio in town with PTHD, 2" 24-track, 48-channel console, control room WAY bigger than even my latest, costing over $400,000 total. Yet, everything they produce sounds like it was made in a college student's dorm room because they do their mastering in-house with a pair of NS-10s in a hall-way closet with the door removed.

[oldeanalogueguy]

a great room with no gear wont do jacksquatch or diddlypoop

a stinkin room full of gear with headphones can be very educational
and CAN do a lot of decent mixing/mastering (trackign not so much)

[sat159p1]

Originally Posted by Freematik

The fact that you can find some "pro" recordings that are bad and some amateur recordings that are great does not mean an amateur with good ears can do professional mastering with plugins and headphones as you suggest.

I know that. But I think more "amateur mastering" than pro. In the beginning of course. For many beginners, mastering is just limiting the mix to the commercial level (Yes, many clients even think that's the biggest point). Please remember that if you treat your room for $1000 you will not have money for "mastering". And he asked how to start. OK. You can treat the room even for $500, but you can't buy monitors for $500. And software. And cables.. etc. I just suggested the affordable way to START make some beginners action

wado - I know your point. But again, we're talking about very very inexpensive start. If you are a worker you will not earn having good car, outfit and haircut - you need a tool more than these things.

Like You - I need to move to the better (bigger) room too. I don't like the sound of mine and I think I've tried everything. 15m2 seems to be too small for the critical job.

[JoScar]

I would have to agree if you listening to your material into an open space it would be wise to control the acoustics and produce a more accurate image. But getting a room that wasn't designed to be a studio to begin with can be expensive to make it acoustical accurate.
One thing you could do is make a room with in your room but again that will cost you some cash.
but as far as mastering goes you really do need a good ear and not just a good ear but you have to know what to listen for which will take a long time in a good environment. I have been recording and mixing for a few years now and I'm just now being able to hear 1 db difference when boosting or cutting frequencies. Your ear is your most valuable tool start there. Maybe start off with a good pair of accurate headphones that are closed back to eliminate the room from the equation. But at some point you will want to hear how it will interact with the air so maybe create mixes and listen to them in your car to help you hear what the difference is because this use to be where a lot of people use to listen to music. Wavelab elements has some good tools in it for mastering and analysis tools as well.
Just to put in my to cents. Good luck its a long road of learning and it never ends.

[jruberto]

This might be an odd suggestion, but I'll suggest that you find the best mastering facility that is local to you, and use a little bit of that $1k to book a couple hours there with the ME and have them master a track that you have been given to master. I'm sure the engineer will be happy to give you some guidance & advice around priorities if you are looking to "get into the game".

I have been fortunate to have work that I've engineered or produced get mastered by some of the best in the biz, and attending those sessions has really helped me gain some great insight into the what, why and how. I've gotten way more mileage and knowledge out of that then any reading -- tho you should definitely pick up Bob Katz's book.

Personally, I offer "mastering" (scare quotes included) services to the less fortunate who are about to do it themselves or let "their friend who has ozone" do it (and I still do it with some trepidation as I barely have a couple decades of experience as a serious AE). I do a passable job and have yet to have an unhappy client and even get a bit of repeat business, but I know I can't hold a candle to the quality of work that the guys with the amazing rooms and the monitor chains that cost triple my net worth and have mastered a statistically significant percentage of the albums in my music library.

[joeaudio]

Originally Posted by Greg Reierson

PMC recommends it for their large monitors. I think Tannoy did as well.


GR

John Dunlavy recommended placing his speakers on the long wall
straight out, (parallel with the wall) grills on.

1) I'm going to assume you have a decent PC.
2) Wavelab $499.00
This is a professional app and will take some time to learn.
It comes with all the processors you'll need to get started.
3) Audio interface with headphone out (M-Audio) less than $200.00
4) You now have $300 left for monitoring.
(Headphones) or the home theater speakers you mentioned.
5) Time, patience, determination.

[deft_bonz]

Originally Posted by MASSIVE Master

If you're "young in the game" this is the best time to learn the two rules of audio:

Of course, everyone says there are no "rules" but there are. At least two...

1) No matter your years of experience, no matter how well-defined your listening skills, no matter tens of thousands of dollars in gear, computers plugs, outboard, etc., you will only ever hear as accurately as your monitoring chain will allow you to hear. Period. End of story, no exceptions, etc.

2) No matter how wonderfully accurate and consistent your monitoring chain may be, no matter if it goes from 10Hz all the way up to infra-red and past radar and microwaves, your monitoring will only ever be as accurate and consistent as the room they're in allows them to be (again with the "period" and "end of story" stuff).

All that said - I'm not a professional acoustician or acoustical engineer. But this is almost universally a decent starting point in a typical space of typical construction:

Basic Room Setup for Dummies | Articles

Well said, can't agree more.

[joeaudio]

^It is well said, and of course true.
The OP is asking if a grand could get him started with mastering.
(for his own and his friends projects)

The answer is, yes.

He's not asking if he can steal the next Adele project
from Tom Coyne.

Joe Y.