Sonic Timeworks Mastering Compressor appreciation

[scius]

wow, after using the L3 for way too long, I discovered this baby. I can squash the shit out of songs (don't flame me) and still keep the transients sharp as a tack.

feel free to agree/disagree.

[Frequency]

Hey!

I have this one! But it's ancient, isn't it?

I think I got mine about six or seven years ago.
Are we talking about the same plug?

I stopped using it when I bought the Diamond bundle.

Have they released newer versions?

[Fredrikgroth]

It IS ancient, but it's also really really good, and that's what counts. Best brickwall limiter for rock/metal if you wanna keep your snare where you left it in the mix...

[scius]

nah it is pretty old, but i love it anyway. since you have the diamond bundle, try doing a comparison with it and the L3.

although i hear a bit of low-end distortion when pushing the timeworks compressor, it still retains a lot of punch and clarity. if you push the L3, you hear distortion on the top end, not much on the low-end - but it just kills the dynamics. i never knew how bad until i compared it with the timeworks limiter.

try setting the release on the timeworks compressor around 50-100, you can drag the threshold to like 6-8db of limiting while still getting a lot of punch. experiment with hard/soft mode too to get desired sound.

i just realized there are couple threads about this plugin already, but i got really excited. sorry admins.

[Fredrikgroth]

I've compared it to L2 & L3 on several metal mixes; the Waves plugs does not even come close.

[Frequency]

Very interesting...

I'll do a comparison tonight!

I hope you're right!
I'm not very happy with the Waves limiters...

:-)

[scius]

in fact here are three audio samples. it's blatantly clear that the timeworks plug annihilates the L3.

settings:

Timeworks - hard mode, release: 50

L3 - loud n proud preset

turned dithering off in both plugs and dithered with the Nuendo plugin SurroundDither

[Frequency]

Hey Jeff!

Thanks for that!

Actually, you're right. The Timeworks version is a lot more punchy!

Wow. Cool.

[Fredrikgroth]

I might be able to post some metal samples later tonight as well. The difference is even more audible when it comes to dense metal mixes.

[Frequency]

Please do!

Your examples were very interesting.

I haven't considered using my Timeworks limiter in about three years, so this was an eye opener. Looking forward to rediscovering it... :-)

[tamasdragon]

I disagree here. The timeworks is just a bit more louder than the other, but not a lot punchier as described. Different in sonics, but that would be another thread that which is better. Also a blind test definately more objective, as you know our brain can play games with us.
Regards Tamas Dragon

[Frequency]

I think the Timeworks example is punchier.

I'm going to do a comparison myself tonight.

[defjamm]

Originally Posted by tamasdragon

I disagree here. The timeworks is just a bit more louder than the other, but not a lot punchier as described. Different in sonics, but that would be another thread that which is better. Also a blind test definately more objective, as you know our brain can play games with us.
Regards Tamas Dragon

it is louder because the waves L-series kills the punch of the drums.

for beat-heavy music there is simply no comparison, i did a lot of tests. if you want it loud and punchy and don't have high-end converters to clip, then the sonic timeworks will be MUCH better than the L-series.

[scius]

Originally Posted by tamasdragon

I disagree here. The timeworks is just a bit more louder than the other, but not a lot punchier as described. Different in sonics, but that would be another thread that which is better. Also a blind test definately more objective, as you know our brain can play games with us.
Regards Tamas Dragon

i would have done a blind test, but in my opinion it's so blatantly obvious that the timeworks compressor wins out in this comparison.

if anyone else cares to do a blind test, go for it. start a new thread with a poll option to make it easier.

and if anyone thinks they can match the punch of the timeworks using the L3, please do so, that's why i've included the original file in the shootout.

[Fredrikgroth]

I didn't have any time to make samples last night... hopefully tonight. OK, so how to do this? Should I post three examples like scius did? Should I include more limiters than the Timeworks one and the Waves L series?

I will use a clip from our latest album.

[MarkusColeman]

Originally Posted by scius

wow, after using the L3 for way too long, I discovered this baby. I can squash the shit out of songs (don't flame me) and still keep the transients sharp as a tack.

feel free to agree/disagree.

agree.

yes, the plug in is old, but when they came out, they still asked for AT LEAST a 1GHz PC for a single instance (!!!)...even though they were extremly well programmed.

Their "X" series (as I have mentioned in another part of the forum) is probably the most "slept on" piece of software ever released. thumbsup

[seth666]

Timeworks sonic compressor especially good on dense metal mixes ?
sounds exactly what I need to replace my L3 and PSP Vintage Warmer..

I've been on their official site and it seems that there is only a DirectX version :(
Is that right ?

I'm on Protools so I can "only" use RTAS and VST plugz...

[blayz2002]

I got this on the free trial right now and it did a lovely job on this mix (just gotta find the cash to pay for it now!!!!!: http://www.soundclick.com/bands/song...songID=3684499

I don't have the L2, so tried it up against the L1 and it won hands down. louder, punchier and warmer sounding.

[scius]

blayz, that's a tight song. really clean production, props.

[Fredrikgroth]

OK, here are the files I promised you. The clip is taken from our latest album (un-mastered version of course).

Note the pretty extreme difference of the drum transients; L2 and L3 kills the snare totally.

edit: as I state in a later post below, I've pushed these plugs a bit harder than they´re meant to be used. The purpose of this is to show how they treat the transients of (for example) the drums. One of the problems I've always had with L2 and L3 is that they change the sound of the snare A LOT, and you have to mix really strange to compensate for that behaviour. With Timeworks, you dont' have to. Snare is fine, even if you push it.

[andredb]

WOW!! what a difference I can still hear a Snare in STW version while with waves it's all gone...

The STW verion breath a little, i do not mind it but i think its a matter of release time..

Also there seem to be no difference in loudness....

Which was the average gain reduction for the 3?? I rarely go beyond 3 with L2....

[Bang]

I've been shouting out about this plugin for years now. The magic behind this plugin is that it actually is a clipper, which is why it sounds much better then Waves which is a limiter.

[defjamm]

http://www.gvst.co.uk/gclip.htm

you guys could also try this one, it's free and also a clipper(even with oversampling).

but this clipping-plugins(timeworks, elephant, gvst) null with the same plug-in doing the same gain but not with the others(like gclip versus timeworks, or elephant versus timeworks).

[theblue1]

I practically felt like I was the only one who knew about the Sonic Timeworks compressor. I also have their EQ. (The versions I have are the 64 bit internal ones that shipped with Sonar Pro something or other [update: Sonar XL 2.x, that was*].)

I fell in love with both of them the first time I played with them.

I'd been using compression plugs from Sonic Foundry (and using the compression in the old Sound Forge 4 & 5) but I'd never really warmed up to them much.

I felt like the Sonic Timeworks compressor was the first compressor I could shove a mix through and not lose "more than you'd expect" (that is, I felt like earlier compressors I'd used degraded the sound noticeably in ways that you wouldn't expect a HW compressor to do.) My feelings were pretty well ditto for EQ, too. Plus the graphic mode, complete with animated spectrum display, is aces in my book. I own hardware parametrics so it's not like I'm a stranger to that concept, but the rubber line graphic mode in the ST EQ is such a UI jump over other interfaces I'd used before.


I use them both almost every day. I love 'em.


___________

* I just moved Sonar over to a new desktop from my laptop where it's been living the last couple years and after installing Sonar Producer 5, I went back to look for some of the DXi's and DX plugs from previous versions -- and was HORRIFIED to realize that I had to install the whole blinkin' app to get the VIs and plugs. Which I did. (Sonar's pretty easygoing about having other versions of itself around -- although they've changed some things so once you work on an old session in S5 there may be issues with using it in olver vers.) To be on the safe side, I uninstalled Sonar 5 and reinstalled it when I was done.

I can't tell you how much better I felt once I saw my old STW pals in my FX bin...

[NathanEldred]

Originally Posted by theblue1

I practically felt like I was the only one who knew about the Sonic Timeworks compressor.

I've been telling people about it religiously since around 1999-2000. After being told I was full of shit so many times, I stopped saying it.

[theblue1]

Originally Posted by MarkusColeman

agree.

yes, the plug in is old, but when they came out, they still asked for AT LEAST a 1GHz PC for a single instance (!!!)...even though they were extremly well programmed.

Their "X" series (as I have mentioned in another part of the forum) is probably the most "slept on" piece of software ever released. thumbsup

Wow! No kidding?

I didn't use a whole bunch of 'em but I would often use at least an instance or two of the compressor and the EQ in all the projects I did on my old P3-500 mHz...


Good thing I didn't look down... I mighta ended up lying in a heap on top of Wiley E. Coyote on the valley floor...

[theblue1]

Originally Posted by NathanEldred

I've been telling people about it religiously since around 1999-2000. After being told I was full of shit so many times, I stopped saying it.

You're full of shit.





I know what you mean. I can't compare the Sonic Timeworks stuff to, say, the Waves bundle or the Oxford stuff (which I've never really worked withthough I have seen demo'd by friends) -- but I do like the STW stuff a whole lot. I have a couple of free compression plugs that I like for more 'characterful' compression (like Blockfish) but the STW compressor really allows fairly good conrol over a number of compression parameters -- and I really like the brick wall limiter too... I don't abuse it -- but dang it's handy having it there.


Unlike some of the other folks here, a lot of my mixes are a bit more on the jazzy/trip hop side and/or folk/acoustic but I find the STW EQ and compression are great for my stuff, too.


Good tools make me feel warm inside.

[MarkusColeman]

Originally Posted by theblue1

Wow! No kidding?

yup, the compressor (x) requires at least 1 GHz for real-time previews, reverb (x) at least 2 GHz. lol

[theblue1]

Like I said, good thing I didn't know.


I had a similar experience with an earlier version of Cakewalk Pro Audio. I was running a Penitum ('one') 133 mHz and when I built myself a new P3-500 [talk about a jump] as I was installing the same version of CWPA I'd been using on the P-133 I looked and saw its minimum requirement was 200 mHz! Hell, it ran fine, given the expectations of the era.

It's amazing what you can do when you don't know you can't.

Almost as amazing as how many things you just can't do at all no matter how hard you try that should be no trouble at all.

[Fredrikgroth]

Originally Posted by andredb

WOW!! what a difference I can still hear a Snare in STW version while with waves it's all gone...

The STW verion breath a little, i do not mind it but i think its a matter of release time..

Also there seem to be no difference in loudness....

Which was the average gain reduction for the 3?? I rarely go beyond 3 with L2....

I have to admit I pushed them really hard... a bit too hard in fact, but that was only to prove the point that STW preserves the transients in an excellent way. Average gain reduction; well I'm at work now so I can't check, but it was more than 3dB.