Anyone Using K-14 Metering?

[matskull]

Originally Posted by bob katz

That's because Cubase's meter is incorrect, it doesn't follow the standard for RMS measurements in dB that has been set out by the AES and the IEC. We did talk about that in more detail in some thread or other over here....

BK

From the man himself, thanks Bob!

I was pretty sure that was the reason why, hence why I specified it was the cubase's reading.

Thanks

[taturana]

I've been using the k-system for mixing for the past year and it is great! I highly reccomend it... k-14 for pop/rock , k-12 for tv/radio spots and k-20 for movie theater/classical/acoustic jazz

[matskull]

Originally Posted by taturana

I've been using the k-system for mixing for the past year and it is great! I highly reccomend it... k-14 for pop/rock , k-12 for tv/radio spots and k-20 for movie theater/classical/acoustic jazz

I only do mix, no mastering, and I don't put a comp on the 2-bus, should I use the K-20 or K-14?

Doing mostly rock stuff.

[taturana]

Originally Posted by matskull

I only do mix, no mastering, and I don't put a comp on the 2-bus, should I use the K-20 or K-14?

Doing mostly rock stuff.

I would use k-14

[matskull]

Originally Posted by taturana

I would use k-14

Thanks taturana, so using the -20dBFs RMS pink noise downloaded from Bob's site, do I have to boost it by 6dB to calibrate my system for K-14?

Any other opinions about that?

[bob katz]

Originally Posted by matskull

I only do mix, no mastering, and I don't put a comp on the 2-bus, should I use the K-20 or K-14?

Doing mostly rock stuff.

If you're the kind who glues his eyes on the meters I'd go for a K-14. If you're a real man and use your ears, I'd go for a K-20. It gives you all the headroom you'll ever need. Mix to your ears, close your eyes, don't worry about ever peaking overload and send it on to mastering sounding like you want it. The sound comes first, the metering comes later. K-14 limits your freedom somewhat, K-20 gives you all the freedom you want, clean or dirty. Remember, there is no obligation to peak to full scale. The key is to set your monitor gain first....

BK

[matskull]

Originally Posted by bob katz

If you're the kind who glues his eyes on the meters I'd go for a K-14. If you're a real man and use your ears, I'd go for a K-20. It gives you all the headroom you'll ever need. Mix to your ears, close your eyes, don't worry about ever peaking overload and send it on to mastering sounding like you want it. The sound comes first, the metering comes later. K-14 limits your freedom somewhat, K-20 gives you all the freedom you want, clean or dirty. Remember, there is no obligation to peak to full scale. The key is to set your monitor gain first....

BK

Thanks Bob, that's how I felt about it, the increased headroom makes sence to me.
I'll give it a try

[matskull]

The more stuff I mix, the more I think I need to buy a decibel meter to conform to the K20 or 14 system.

I didn't do it yet basically because I didn't have time or was too lazy or poor to buy a decibel meter...

Now, before I do it, and I swear I'll do it, I've got some questions.
I use an "hybrid" setup, I record on an HD24 digital multitrack recorder and mix on an analog console.

Because of the multiple gain staging happening in the console I just really wanna make sure I do it right.

Do the -20dbfs (playing from the HD24) has to reach 0dB on my console's VU?
Then from that point I calibrate my speakers to 83dB SPL, right?

It almost seems too simple that I'm wondering if I'm missing something here.

[mars]

On a related note, Logic Pro now has an option to calibrate the meters to leave about 14dB of headroom at the "0.0" point (Preferences>Display>Mixer>Level Meters, the scale can be set to "sectional dB-linear"). This gives a reading of -14 at the 0.0 point of the meter. The default (exponential) gives -4 at the same point! Only "problem" is that most young engineers find that the waveform "looks too small" at this level.

[Surbitone]

I use K-14 & K-20 almost daily, makes life really easy thumbsup

[Yann Dub]

Nothing new with the K system , it is exactly the same thing than a Vu meter in the analog world ... of course it is important ... but it is existing since more than 50 years now ...

I personaly use the vumeter of my work station , harrison mix bus , but they called it K meter .... it is only maketing , nothing more and nothing less...

[pmx]

that's true yann, if you truly understand what is going on. there are a lot of people out there that benefit from having a very easy to understand system of audio metering.

i for myself don't use the k-system, but kinda do the same thing with the tc lm5d. not the same thing, but it shares the same principles. it's not the numbers, but the calibration that matters.

[peter_martin]

Mixing at K-20 has saved me loads of time in getting things 'just right'.

Interesting thing is I've never fully calibrated my system but I do have a meter and knew 80-85 db was a sweet spot for mixing but never had my volume pot set for "0"=83, "-6"=77, ect, ect. I also spotted some inconsistencies with the final balance from mix to mix,and at time struggled because I never had it as a system like Bob suggests. Sometimes I would do a final mix down that would be around K-14, K-12, an okay glance at volumes around K-20. The key word here is I'd be around and have my volumes be all over the place and didn't fully comprehend the finality of it all with a properly calibrated monitoring setup.

I tested my mixes at K20, balance with the mono switch engaged, and disengaged it when I get the balance volume rides correct. When I disengage the mono switch the entire mix blooms into stereo. Sounds focused, clear, and balanced in mono, but in stereo it just blooms out of the speakers especially when balanced in mono @ K20.

Sometimes I might have to make a small adjustment or two after disengaging the mono switch, but engage it at the end to simply double check.

Needless to say that the mixes now sound superb. I've been told I have very good compositional, musical, and sound ideas, but the mixes would never translate that energy, or musical experience I've been trying to convey all these years. It would only be sound that happened to be playing music, and not musical sound. It all came down to having the ability to properly hear everything, having my room treated, good monitoring, and this method was the last thing I needed to add to the whole setup. Properly calibrated monitoring...

I have to say my mixes have improved many times, and going with a system of where I know I'll make the best decisions every single time it lets me focus more on the musical aspects of not only mixing, but when I am in compositional phase too.

GOD Bless you Mr. Katz.