Eliminating String Noise on steel string guitar

[RDW]

Has anyone had any success eliminating or reducing string noice? I play acoustic guitar and do a lot of sliding up and down the neck. I have KM84 Klaus Modified mics and a Lavry Blue...suffice it to say the input line is sensitive! So EVERYTHING is picked up.

I have WAVES Diamond Bundle, which contains the X-Noise, along with compressors, limiters, EQ, etc.

Any ideas???? Oh, by the way, yes, I have used Flat Tops and they DO help.

[5down1up]

i would use automation . i like the PT feature that you can playback in halftime and move the faders on the desired spots . that way you can reduce the unwanted noise . if thats to much work ( which really isnt ) maybe try a sidechain compressor like the c1 . it kinda works if you dial in the right frequencies but ...
it changes the sound ... imho in a " unwanted " way . hope that helps ?

[Dave Martin]

Sorry, but the only good way to reduce or eliminate the string noise is with your hands, NOT with processing. It can be done, but it takes effort and practice (and possible either baby powder or skin oil, depends on the player's skin).

[arf]

Originally Posted by Dave Martin

Sorry, but the only good way to reduce or eliminate the string noise is with your hands, NOT with processing. It can be done, but it takes effort and practice (and possible either baby powder or skin oil, depends on the player's skin).

Not so! Algorithmix ReNOVAtor, CEDAR Retouch, and other "frequency domain editing" apps can isolate and replace the squeaks with sound re-synthesized from adjacent sound making the removal seemless and invisible. I do it all the time with in the blink of an eye with Algorithmix. Don't go crazy, though, the squeaks are part of the instrument. I only remove the ones that hurt. ReNOVAtor is now available for ProTools.

[John Peacock]

Why would you want to remove it? It's a real guitar. There should be string noise.

-Jp

[Shandy]

Washing your hands (or I guess just your left one) with soap and warm water before playing will temporarily remove the oils responsible for the string squeak. Another option (in the opposite direction) would be a product like Fast Fret, that you apply to the strings to lube 'em up... I usually go with the hand washing. The little moist towelletes they give you with your meal on airplanes also work in a pinch-- I keep a couple in my guitar case.

But to be honest, I like a little squeak in there to keep it sounding real...

[Charles Dye]

Actually, I use the Waves DeEsser for this all the time. It works great.

And works great with fret noise on bass too.

[StuartMac]

I use a de-esser too. The cheap Drawmer one (MX50?) seems to work best.

[The True Buck]

FATSO's warmth control... Doesn't kill it but makes it sound less evil.

And as someone said, wash your left hand and keep your right hand dirty!

[max cooper]

Originally Posted by John Peacock

Why would you want to remove it? It's a real guitar. There should be string noise.

-Jp

I notice that sometimes it "talks" over the vocal. But I usually try to leave all the stuff like that.

Once place it can be most problematic is when I'm playing the guitar at a "whisper" level because the relative level of the squeaks to the notes is much, much higher.

Not as much of a problem when bashing.

I've used the API 525 De Esser for this. I think the 525 excells at acoustic guitar.

I'm not a guitar player, I'm a recording engineer. I feel squeaks from a guitar a symptom of poor playing, as it always distracts me from the music itself - like sqealing tires is evidence of bad driving. (...or a dramatic special effect!). Just because people gte used to it doesn't mean it is supposed to be there...

DSser or editing or auromation can all fix it, but it reminds me of an email sig line:

"Can you fix that in Protools?"

"Sure, if you can't play it right..."

<L>

[TampaBaySound]

I have a bit of a low tech approach to reducing string noise. First of all I keep a nice Martin in the studio for people to use and I encourage them to use it. I installed one of those GHS gooseneck mikes inside the body of the guitar. The gooseneck allows you to move the mike around inside the body so you can find the 'sweet' spot or the spot with the least string noise. I've noticed the goosemneck mike doesn't seem to pick up much string noise at all. It's not the best mike, but if you run it through a nice pre and EQ and compress it a bit it not too bad. Then just run it through a seperate channel and add some of it to the mix to round it out. That brings down the overall string noise.
Also place another (third) mike behind the player. This channel will be more of a dull bassy sound but also adds to rounding out the mix by adding a little of the bottom warmth, again without little or no string noise. Kind of like you do using a second mike behind a guitar cabinet out of phase to warm up an electric guitar track that otherwise sounds a little thin. Also the rear mike is sometimes the ideal choice as the track to send to the reverb if you are using any because of the lack of string noise. I end up with three tracks for an acoustic most of the time, a blend of these three mikes.
I agree with those that say it's a guitar and there should be string noise. It's just nice for you to be able to decide how much sounds right.

John

[John Peacock]

Originally Posted by Lou Judson

I'm not a guitar player, I'm a recording engineer. I feel squeaks from a guitar a symptom of poor playing, as it always distracts me from the music itself - like sqealing tires is evidence of bad driving. (...or a dramatic special effect!). Just because people gte used to it doesn't mean it is supposed to be there...

DSser or editing or auromation can all fix it, but it reminds me of an email sig line:

"Can you fix that in Protools?"

"Sure, if you can't play it right..."

<L>

Squeaks are part of playing a guitar. If you want to take all human/natural elements out of a performance so that it matches the current trend of manufactured/soul-less sounding recordings on the radio, then go ahead. But it's not natural. Especially on quiet music is when I find it crucial to have those human elements there to create an intimate sound with some character and emotional weight.

From a technical side, there are of course things that can add more string squeak. New strings, for one, definitely create more noise than old ones (and many people tend to put new strings on right before going into the studio, which has both plus and minuses). Over compression is another. And obviously, poorly placed EQ can increase the effect.

I feel the tire analogy is off. String noise is a lot closer to breaths on a vocal track, or tom or snare ring on a drum kit. It is something that happens naturally with the best players. Are these things that engineers have tried to "fix" for decades? Sure. I just like the way it sounds better with them there, and I know I am not alone. Some of my favorite records indicate to me that there are other engineers out there that don't mind audible breaths from a vocalist, ring from a drum set and string noise from even some of the best musicians.

It's two different opinions, but just because you can remove it, doesn't mean you should.

-Jp

[max cooper]

Originally Posted by Lou Judson

I feel squeaks from a guitar a symptom of poor playing, as it always distracts me from the music itself - like sqealing tires is evidence of bad driving.

I dunno. After twenty-plus years I can have pretty clean technique, and there are times when, depending on the part, I can only desqueak so much. Also depends on the guitar.

[bob katz]

Originally Posted by RDW

Has anyone had any success eliminating or reducing string noice? I play acoustic guitar and do a lot of sliding up and down the neck. I have KM84 Klaus Modified mics and a Lavry Blue...suffice it to say the input line is sensitive! So EVERYTHING is picked up.

I have WAVES Diamond Bundle, which contains the X-Noise, along with compressors, limiters, EQ, etc.

Any ideas???? Oh, by the way, yes, I have used Flat Tops and they DO help.

Hmmmm..... bright mikes and aggressive acoustic guitar squeaks do not get along well. You could try the Waves de-esser, but that probably is too frequency-specific. The first thing I would advise is changing mike techniques a bit if possible, not mike so close to the frets, try ribbons instead of condensors, etc. The better you make it going to "tape", the less futzing you have to do in mixing or mastering, the better you will be.

Speaking of "tape", analog tape can help in a very "naturalistic" way to minimize the effect of those guitar squeaks on the ears. It's a high-frequency compressor with no attack or release time.

So, after you minimized it with a more holistic approach on the way in, if the squeaks are still bothering you, then you might try a frequency-sensitive (multi-band) compressor. The Waves C1 is a definite candidate. Set it to bandpass mode (not sidechain), look ahead, and with not too fast an attack or release time. If you hear the sound start to go away and not come back every time you hear a squeak, you've gone WAY too far. A little bit of gain reduction (1 to 3 dB) goes a long way. And finally, use the best noise reduction system known to man, the human ear. Your capacity for just ignoring those little defects goes a long way. You, the artist, are probably hyper sensitive to the squeaks, and when you start listening to the music, they should just become subliminal, if you've done all or some of the above.

[Klaus]

Originally Posted by bob katz

Hmmmm..... bright mikes and aggressive acoustic guitar squeaks do not get along well.

I'd like to address the contention by a couple of people who posted on Gearslutz that modifications I perform on professional condenser mics, vintage or contemporary, end up as "bright" sounding. As it is hard for most to verify what the actual case may be, I find it useful to correct this opinion and clarify.

1. (Regarding this thread): The modification of KM84s I perform never include any high frequency alteration from the stock model- what you got in high end before the mod is what you will get after the mod, down to the last quarter dB.
If the mic appears bright, it either is defective, or the higher resolution I achieve through modification is misinterpreted.

2. On all other models I deal with I am very, some say overly, consciencious NOT to make the mics bright and frequency unbalanced.
The last time I deliberately added highs was in the days of slaved 48 track analog recording, in the late 1980s, when the mixes got so thick that clients literally demanded that I incoroprate high frequency extensions in some of the mics.

None of that is present policy or has been for decades, and even back then, it affected mostly rock&roll studios and producers who owned U87 mics.

Furthermore, none of these high frequency extensions are kept in when I revisit any of these earlier mods I performed, but the mics are rebalanced to counteract the still rather poor high frequency processing power of most A/D converters and digital recorders.

The exception to the 'balanced response' approach is when specific artists request tailor-made vocal mic responses they feel they (or production houses) need to have, in order to express their voice or production styles.

Best regards,
Klaus Heyne

[icompose]

Originally Posted by RDW

Has anyone had any success eliminating or reducing string noice? I play acoustic guitar and do a lot of sliding up and down the neck. I have KM84 Klaus Modified mics and a Lavry Blue...suffice it to say the input line is sensitive! So EVERYTHING is picked up.

I have WAVES Diamond Bundle, which contains the X-Noise, along with compressors, limiters, EQ, etc.

Any ideas???? Oh, by the way, yes, I have used Flat Tops and they DO help.

[top]Removing Guitar String Squeaks From Digital Recordings

Coating your strings with a commercial lubricant, common cooking oil, or even using steel wool to smooth the strings are all excellent ideas for minimizing the potential for creating undesirable sounds before you record.

This procedure focuses on eliminating undesirable sounds that are already present on prerecorded tracks.

I would like to suggest utilizing V-Vocal in conjunction with Sonar Version 5 or above.

This procedure assumes that you are somewhat familiar with Cakewalk’s Sonar Digital Audio Workstation (DAW) and are using Version 5 or above.

1.)Isolate the problem track in the Track View by selecting the track and solo the track so there will be no other interference.
Suggestion: Splitting clips and trimming them prior to doing any further editing facilitates the process and also saves on internal computer memory minimizing dropouts during play back.
2.)Right click on the track and select Create V-Vocal Clip.
3.)Once V-Vocal is open select the Dynamics button.
4.)Right click on the track in V-Vocal and select View Waveform so you can see the variance of the waveform while you are hearing the sound. With further experience you can spot them by eye without even hearing them.
5.)Select the area, with the Arrow Tool, where you can hear the undesirable sound(s) and grab the centerline in the waveform by hovering over the waveform with your mouse and the Arrow Tool. You will see the Arrow Tool change to a double arrow. Grab the line, of the area that you have already selected to modify, and pull it down as far as it will go. You have just eliminated the undesirable sound. If you can still hear it when you play it back, click on the undo button and try again until you get it right. It takes a little practice but you’ll get really good at it after awhile. V-Vocal is a very powerful tool that can be used on all audio files, not just vocals.

For further instruction go to Cakewalk.com and select YouTube Cakewalk on the left side of the Web Site. Check out further instruction on utilizing V-Vocal, particularly the V-Vocal In Depth. Pay particular attention when he discusses Dynamics editing.

Hope this helps!

God Bless

[dannygold]

Brian Eno says take the part of the mix that bothers you the most and accentuate it... Might be hard to convince a CLIENT of that theory unless your name is Eno, but still a cool idea.

I used to hate guitar noise, but the way records like James Laid (Prod. Eno) and all Belle and Sebastian records use it as an effect made me love it...

This may sound strange, but ask the guitar player to move their hand between chords very quickly and rhythmically. That way the sqeek become part of the music... an auditory clue that the chord is about to change... as long as it's "in time" it can really ADD to the track.

Dannnnnnny (squeek) Goooooooooold (squeek)

[JimmyM]

If I ever cut an acoustic track and the engineer suggested removing the string noise, I would kick him in the sack. Why do people want to remove the very things that separate programmed tracks from real musicians playing them? I guess I'm old.

[acorneau]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

If I ever cut an acoustic track and the engineer suggested removing the string noise, I would kick him in the sack. Why do people want to remove the very things that separate programmed tracks from real musicians playing them? I guess I'm old.

I agree that string/fret noise is part of the guitar's sound, and I would never try to remove all the noise. However, you might get the occasional noise that's just a little too loud and annoying, or sticks out in a gap in the mix. A little adjustment (attenuating or removal) could be just the trick.

[Jerry Tubb]

Originally Posted by arf

Not so! Algorithmix ReNOVAtor, CEDAR Retouch, and other "frequency domain editing" apps can isolate and replace the squeaks with sound re-synthesized from adjacent sound making the removal seemless and invisible. I do it all the time with in the blink of an eye with Algorithmix. Don't go crazy, though, the squeaks are part of the instrument. I only remove the ones that hurt. ReNOVAtor is now available for ProTools.

Great Advice with effective albeit pricey tools. Sometimes Sonic NoNoise can work in this situation as well.

(Oooh I see they just released ReNOVAtor for Mac OS X ! Very tempting, thanks for the tip Alan.)

Originally Posted by Charles Dye

Actually, I use the Waves DeEsser for this all the time. It works great.

Also good advice... try the Ren DeEsser too.

You can kick it old school, and just manually reduce the ones that really jump up and bite the ear. I've fixed a zillion of these over the years, one at a time, using an Audiosuite plug-in EQ notch in PT, only on the offending squeaks, and their reverb tails. An analyzer can help you find the offend freq and its' harmonics. Create a pretty tight notch and reduce it a few dB. Just don't overdo it and punch holes in the mix.

In a given song maybe there'll only be a few of these to fix, same situation with DeEssing. No need to overdo it with a bunch of automatic processing.

However, once in a while you get a song where the squeaks are really bad throughout the whole song, interfering with the vocal. Then it's time to pull out the industrial strength automatic tools & program length notches. Or a combination of all the techniques.

Also time to consider remixing or perhaps even recutting the song.

JT

[leaper]

Once i had a diabolical squeaker..great player..but something definitely unusual in his technique. To make matters worse it was a solo singer songwriter...and he had a lisp! (okay...made that up about the lisp)
Anyway, a very effective solution came from the Publison Fullmost..anyone remember them? I've still got one lurking around the rack.

[Bob Olhsson]

I've never found an automatic way that worked unless the guitar wasn't playing a very prominent role. You can do quite a bit squeak by squeak however the time and effort must be weighed against replacing the guitar.

[jamsmith]

[drakewire]

I am with the above posters in saying not to remove it, but I can't understand why no one mentioned Trans-x since he has waves, its excellent at taming this... Vocal processors, renovator, Deessing, what are you trying to kill the tones! Those are all destructive and or add additional noise to the signal, you want to enhance and cut, not destroy the signal.. Wow... one thing that always works is recording it right the first time, but if you must, boost the lower 220 range with a slight dip at 1.4-1.9 K and add a bit of reverb to it... This should make the sounds of finger noise more aesthetic...

[arf]

Originally Posted by drakewire

I am with the above posters in saying not to remove it, but I can't understand why no one mentioned Trans-x since he has waves, its excellent at taming this... Vocal processors, renovator, Deessing, what are you trying to kill the tones! Those are all destructive and or add additional noise to the signal, you want to enhance and cut, not destroy the signal.. Wow... one thing that always works is recording it right the first time, but if you must, boost the lower 220 range with a slight dip at 1.4-1.9 K and add a bit of reverb to it... This should make the sounds of finger noise more aesthetic...

It takes about 10 seconds per squeak with ReNOVATor. All the other methods mentioned, while heroic, are kludges. <g>

[feyshay]

Renovator is astronomically expensive. I'm thinking a little string noise is nice. If there is a lot, you have to play better. For the occasional sound, is there anything cheaper than Renovator. I have not found Noise Reduction 2 to be helpful for isolated sounds like this.

[arf]

Originally Posted by feyshay

Renovator is astronomically expensive. I'm thinking a little string noise is nice. If there is a lot, you have to play better. For the occasional sound, is there anything cheaper than Renovator. I have not found Noise Reduction 2 to be helpful for isolated sounds like this.

Spectal editing (ReNOVAtor, ReTouch) is available standard in Adobe Audition and Samplitude 10. While not as powerful as the two elephants mentioned, either app will allow you to do the task.

[bob katz]

Originally Posted by RDW

Has anyone had any success eliminating or reducing string noice? I play acoustic guitar and do a lot of sliding up and down the neck. I have KM84 Klaus Modified mics and a Lavry Blue...suffice it to say the input line is sensitive! So EVERYTHING is picked up.

I have WAVES Diamond Bundle, which contains the X-Noise, along with compressors, limiters, EQ, etc.

Any ideas???? Oh, by the way, yes, I have used Flat Tops and they DO help.

Eliminating? Never. Reducing? Try a de-esser or one band of a multiband compressor.

I've also had success using Renovator or Retouch on the selected section wherever the squeaks occur. Though labor-intensive, it's much more invisible and selective than a compressor or a de-esser, and doesn't affect the sonics of the surrounding material.

BK

[bonne]

For those who can't manage the price of Renovator there's a new option at a fraction of the price: Izotope RX. Results on par with Renovator. Easy to use.