Eliminating String Noise on steel string guitar

[Andy Krehm]

Originally Posted by bonne

For those who can't manage the price of Renovator there's a new option at a fraction of the price: Izotope RX. Results on par with Renovator. Easy to use.

I'm looking at one of these options.

Does anyone else share this opinion?

[bonne]

Andy

Here are some people's opinions on the RX:

PSW Recording Forums: Brad Blackwood => You really need to check this out... (noise removal)

Three things about the RX tipped the scales for me:

1) Navigation. You can switch from standard wave display to spectral display and back. Very convenient in that it allows you to quickly zoom in on the problem area using the wave display, then shift to spectral display and do whatever you need to do. Then shift back to wave display to zoom in on the next problem area etc. This is a great timesaver over the Renovator, especially when you need high resolution in the spectral dispaly. You'll spend a lot of time waiting for the Renovator to recalculate at high resolution.

2) 3-in-1. If you need to do noise reduction, click or clip removal and spectral correction all of this (and more) can be done in one instance of RX, whereas with Algorithmix you would need to use 3 different programs to get this done: Renovator, Noisefree and Scrathfree.

3) The price, obviously. It's a steal!


I wouldn't kick the Renovator out of bed though. It's a great tool in it's own right.


For the task at hand, guitar string noises, here's a link to a video tutorial adressing that:

RX Spectral Repair: Replace Mode


The RX is every bit as good soundwise and easier and faster to use.

Hope this helps.

[bob katz]

Sounds like Izotope is gaining some converts.

How easy is it to integrate with your DAW? Does it rewrite the file in the same way as Renovator does?

Renovator requires a DAW-specific implementation. But even so, it rewrites to the WAV file with markers where its edits are somehow incorporated into a (proprietary?) header. I'd love to hear more about how this works, about "undo's" and so on.

BK

[mal]

The spectral editor in Wavelab 6 is quite amazing as an alternative possibility....

I recently though manually went through a couple of acoustic tracks (guitar & soprano guitar) and just used the volume automation in PT to reduce the worst offenders.

[bonne]

Bob

Here's a quote from Izotope's website:

"While RX is a standalone application, iZotope is currently developing plug-in versions of RX's modules for use in your favorite digital audio workstation. When you buy iZotope RX or iZotope RX advanced, you will receive these plug-ins at no additional charge when they are released. RX plug-ins are currently planned for early 2008".

Yes, the RX rewrites the file when you promp it to, after you've done your corrections using the different modules. You can revert to earlier settings using the undo history list on the user interface.

You'll find more info here:

iZotope RX - Complete Audio Restoration: Declipping, Declicker, Hum Removal, Denoiser, Spectral Repair, Restore, Remaster, Download

[bob katz]

Originally Posted by bonne

Bob

Here's a quote from Izotope's website:

Thanks, Bonne. Well, the price is very attractive! Don't ask me what I invested in having both Renovator AND Retouch here!

Someone would have to do a very careful shootout, I'm partial to my best toys :-)

BK

[bonne]

Originally Posted by bob katz

Someone would have to do a very careful shootout, I'm partial to my best toys :-)
BK

For some things you might still prefer the Renovator. For other tasks RX will give you superior results (check the link in post #32). Over and all I prefer the RX for most things now.

Since the RX was released only a few months ago we've seen great improvements in every update (version 1:04 so far). Expect to see more improvements up until the time RX Advanced will be launched. Izotope seem very intent on making the RX the best of it's kind.

Updating is a breeze by the way. The new version will replace your present version with no hassle at all.

The demo download includes both the Simple and Advanced demo versions. Well worth a try.

[Alexey Lukin]

Originally Posted by bob katz

How easy is it to integrate with your DAW?

Now available as plug-ins, look at iZotope, Inc - Audio Signal Processing Hardware, Software, Plug-ins, Technology Licensing

[Washington]

Hell, I LOVE squeaks. Organic, human, real (I know the question was to get rid of it, but still...)

Manual automation on a good EQ (the Dave Pensado way, sort of) would be my guess if it was to save my life.

[beyarecords]

Originally Posted by bob katz

I've also had success using Renovator....on the selected section wherever the squeaks occur. Though labor-intensive, it's much more invisible and selective than a compressor or a de-esser, and doesn't affect the sonics of the surrounding material.

thumbsup

[azazel]

hi. I'm having major issues in this squeeky area. I'm (literally) currently attempting to record 'One of these things first' by the great Nick Drake. I'm using a pair of Behringer C-2s close to the sound hole/top frets, positioned very close to each other with the gauzes/heads perpendicular to each other (panned hard left/hard right). This particular mic configuration has worked wonders when I'm recording the guitarist in my band. I - however - am normally a drummer and have only been learning guitar for a year or so.

Anyhow, the parts that my guitarist has been laying down for our album are more 'strumming'-type acoustic parts - i.e. relatively loud and firm playing. Whereas the Nick Drake tune that I'm currently trying to record is very much fingerstyle and seems to sound much nicer if played (very) softly. The only problem with this is that every time I move between chords, i get a fret squeek a load of dbs louder. It literally jumps way out of the overall dynamic level.

I've just had a friend round who advised me to learn how to play each chord without sliding, thus eliminating the squeek, but I've been practising this song for over a year (almost every day) and am eager to get it recorded ASAP. I obviously value my compadres opinion, but I don't really wanna spend another 3 months practising the song with the ''eliminating fret squeek technique'' (lifting fingers off between each chord) before actually recording it.

I've actually tried talcum/baby powder, washing my hands with soapy water etc. and had pretty much zero luck with either of these. I also tried using deEsser, noise reduction and/or compression on a previous Nick Drake tune that I recorded and none of these (even when used pretty drastically) really produced the desired effect.

If anyone has any other suggestions, I'd be happy to give them a go and post the results.

P.S. Equipment (for guitar part on this track):
2x Behringer C-2
Behringer Compressor
Applied R&T Tube MP pre-amp
M-Audio Firewire Solo (two inputs)
PC running Cubase SX3 & Cool Edit
Waves and URS plugins

[Waltz Mastering]

Finger-Ease




TW

[azazel]

Hi waltz. Thanks for suggestion.

However, I'm completely broke, so I had to find a way of doing this without shelling out any dollars. And fortunately, I did.

Someone on another forum suggested rubbing a candle over the strings. I tried it and it works like a dream. A tiny little squeek is still there, but its volume is massively reduced. Kind of like a ppp (pianississimo) dynamic in contrast to the notes which are more in the mp/mf kinda range.

The wax makes the fretboard look a little messy, but since I'm recording, that doesn't really matter.

I highly recommend this candle wax thing to anyone who is having this problem.

[wado1942]

The SOURCE is the best place to eliminate any problem. Now, I think that a little squeak is OK. But if you're getting excessive squeaking, it's because you have poor left-hand technique. You're probably pressing too hard on the strings and or need to trim your finger nails. You don't need to put stuff on your hands or the strings as that will shorten the life of the strings (and possibly the guitar). It's only give a baindaid approach to bypassing a bigger problem. There's plenty of guitar players out there who use lots of slides and hardly have any squeaks.

That said, I've had good luck with an FFT filter applied with a cross fade just over the squeak. I think it's good to reduce the squeak just a few dB but don't try to eliminate it.

[azazel]

hi wado. yeah. like i said, I'm a drummer and have only been playin the guitar for just over a year, so my left hand technique ain't up to much. it was only about two weeks ago that i actually started recording my guitar playing, and that was when the squeaks became apparent (just hadn't noticed them when playing live). obviously, if I wanna cut down the squeaks (to an appopriate level), I'm just gonna have to practice more. But in the meantime, the candle wax thing did help. I was just desperate to get this (guide) part down, so it sufficed for that purpose. Where necessary, I have indeed noise reduced via cool edit (FFT filter), but that reduction did not have to be as drastic as it was when i was playing untreated strings.

Anyway, judging from the amount of cutting and pasting I've had to do to get a full good take, I can say there's even more reason for me to practice, and rest assured; I'll be factoring the left hand technique into my future practice sessions.

Thanks for the input.

-Az

[azazel]

Just thought I'd drop by again and say that the spectral repair in Izotope RX is magic. Decided to get myself a copy of it after realizing that the squeaks - even with candle wax on the strings/talcum powder on my fingers etc. were just too loud - and that it was going to take a long while to get to a point where my left hand technique is up to scratch.

+1 for Izotope RX

and thanks to bonne for the helpful video!

[jlsgear]

Elixir acoustic guitar strings nanoweb will cut back 25 % of string squeak ...

AND they will stay consitent in tone for weeks ... this may completely solve your problem at the source.

ps- They may mellow out the tone too much for some ... but give them try.

My string problems went away the day these were invented!

ELIXIR® Strings - Guitar Strings With Great Tone and Long Life

cheers, jls

[azazel]

Thanks for the tip jls. I'll keep it in mind. Though, for the sake of those who are having this problem and haven't got any dollars, just wanna also quickly state that my experience these past few days has shown me that by far the most magical way of reducing fret squeaks - without developing a solid left-hand technique or buying Izotope RX (which i did) - is WATER. It's FREE. Seriously, give it a go. It don't cost nothing (well - barring the bills). Just soak a tisssue and grab it for a couple seconds before you do a take. Worked wonders for me. You can slide all you like and there's no hideous sqeuaks. Left hand baptism i guess.

This (the water thing) is not really new to me - even though I'm (primarily) a drummer - - I have heard that Satriani soaks his hands for 20 mins before doing any recordings/performances.. but that might just be an internet rumour.

Anyway, it works. It might not do much good for your strings in the long term, but I'm aiming towards that dead, messed-up guitar string sound for these Nick Drake covers, so it works for me in more ways than one..

For MEs/Producers who are working with pre-recorded parts, Izotope RX is (unquestionably IMO) the way to go. For guitarists - like me - who haven't quite mastered that left hand technique; give water a go.

P.S. I should just add that I tried recording the desired guitar part on a friends fender acoustic guitar. Even without water, the squeaks were pretty much non-existant. And no, he hasn't got flat-wound or any kind of specialist strings, but no squeaks. Only problem for me was the intonation on that guitar took some getting used to: Ended up moving back to my Squier acoustic; squeaks were there until I re-implemented the water thing.

I'm assuming that in terms of squeaks the discrepancy between the fender and the squier had something to do with strings or the guitar itself (though I'm not sure about the latter), but like I said; no specialist strings were involved.

So I'm still slightly puzzled about that latter point. But music is mystery. Wouldn't be so much fun if there weren't anomalies, however much they p**s us off as producers.

P.P.S. I'll probably update this thread when i find out what strings were on the fender. At the mo, I know they ain't flat-wound, but that's all I know.

[tyhello12]

Thank you so much for the post. It's really useful.

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[Happy Musicfan]

Let's say you're going from a C Major bar chord at fret/position 8 to G Major bar chord at fret/position 3. Apply right hand dampening (tilt the fleshy part of the right hand palm to the right and gently/swiftly touch all the strings by the bridge) while simultaneously moving the left hand STRAIGHT UP off the strings and THEN to the left, and THEN promptly planting the left hand for the G chord. With enough focus and slow motion practice, the string squeaks can be reduced and eliminated.

[Blast9]

Or do a couple of passes, then cheat witha couple of additional ones, where you play just the individual chords and hand movements (whilst muting the strings) _ that's got me out of trouble on a fairly sparse track but not one with just vox and gtr.

[zapsmith9]

There may be alot of tricks to eliminate the squeaks, but the biggest culprit is bad technique - don't let the left hand fingers slide, even lightly, horizontally along the strings (up and down the neck).

[rogerbrain]

Originally Posted by Shandy

Washing your hands (or I guess just your left one) with soap and warm water before playing will temporarily remove the oils responsible for the string squeak. Another option (in the opposite direction) would be a product like Fast Fret, that you apply to the strings to lube 'em up... I usually go with the hand washing. The little moist towelletes they give you with your meal on airplanes also work in a pinch-- I keep a couple in my guitar case.

But to be honest, I like a little squeak in there to keep it sounding real...

very zen.. the sound of one hand washing.

I thought fast fret was a string cleaner... finger ease is a squeek ******ant.

lighter gauge strings sqweek less... but I have not found a plug in that will do that yet...

automate the eq is the best way after it is recorded.. find the energy spot of EACH offensive squeek an attenuate it a little ...also automate any ambience and take it off the sqweek .... after a couple of hours of this you will either convince yourself you like sqweek or stop recording guitar with such good gear..

I use a slower preamp and mic combo, even for solo guitar. there are several dynamics that sound pretty good that are not 'hot' in the sqweek zone. (try an EV 635 and cheap tube pre) ..also the placement of the mic can be critical as well... to sound and sqweeking

the sound of one hand sqweeking....uuuummmmm

[riffmachine]

Originally Posted by jlsgear

Elixir acoustic guitar strings nanoweb will cut back 25 % of string squeak ...

AND they will stay consitent in tone for weeks ... this may completely solve your problem at the source.

ps- They may mellow out the tone too much for some ... but give them try.

My string problems went away the day these were invented!

ELIXIR® Strings - Guitar Strings With Great Tone and Long Life

cheers, jls

Totally agree on the Elixers. I have them on my Taylors and they are wonderful. They do reduce the squeak, they sound good, they feel cleaner, and I get less wear on my callouses which I appreciate. I did not like them on my electric guitars though. They dulled the tone a bit too much.

[Guitar Zero]

Originally Posted by arf

Not so! Algorithmix ReNOVAtor, CEDAR Retouch, and other "frequency domain editing" apps can isolate and replace the squeaks with sound re-synthesized from adjacent sound making the removal seemless and invisible. I do it all the time with in the blink of an eye with Algorithmix. Don't go crazy, though, the squeaks are part of the instrument. I only remove the ones that hurt. ReNOVAtor is now available for ProTools.

I got all excited about this until I looked it up and realized this plug is costs over $3000. Holy cow, who spends that kind of cash on one plug in? For that kind of money you could hire a professional guitarist to come play all your tracks with no squeaks.

[soundroid]

just used izotope Rx on a recent project. very cost effective.
definitely in the league of Renovator and retouch. absolutely kills any of the waves stuff in regards to de-noising. the spectral repair mode was so good it allowed me to remove an electric drill noise that was present during a recording. I'm sure removing strings noises would be a snap.

Joe

[Mike.]

I play nylon acoustic and only have issues with squeaking when I try to switch over to my steel string. When I pick up the steel string, let the squeaking begin.

So one solution would be to try a classical guitar. You can power chord your way to oblivion on one of those without squeaking. It also makes a really nice slide sound that lacks any squeak at all. The problem there becomes skin loss and excessive heat from the friction caused by moving around too quickly. i kid you not. A little mineral oil solves the heat problem though. Might try baby powder.

I'll have to play the steel string more to improve on the squeaking front, but the classical is so much more fun to play that this hasn't happened.

[heybub419]

Originally Posted by John Peacock

Why would you want to remove it? It's a real guitar. There should be string noise.

-Jp

I agree...Personally, I like string noise. I even like the string noise on the Yamaha MOTIF acoustic guitar patches, haha. Of course, that's just my opinion! If you want to remove it, the best way is to eliminate it at the source. Automation can help though; I'd try automating levels or a de-esser.

[makesijoseph]

What I have dun is record the fret board on another track inverse and automate the phase and get rid of the "EXTREME SQUEEKS". i also thing squeeks are poor technique.... we actually had to add fret noise to some players... O_O

[Analok]

I'd exclusively prefer better playing technique over any plug in electro whiz-bang app any hour of any day-period. But if it's irritating to the performer I can only suggest a re-take of the performance with slight mods in mic placement or trying an additional mic to blend with (mind you that practice of the piece should have been well mapped out before the record button is hit-wasted time=wasted $$$=added frustration). I do however like the suggestions brought up to 'naturally' reduce string squeal (like candle wax, hand washing, PLAIN OL' WATER!! etc) and will keep them in mind well before I start slammin' the track through a de-sser!! And where a player repeats a bar or two that 'squeal' a tad more than the last verse, well then that only confirms the take as being straight up 'live' rather than a spliced up frankenstein of loops and snippets from 3 different sessions of varying success. Keep the human element for God's sake! Off the soapbox...