Transfer from vinyl, archive & other stuff - the non glamour area of mastering?

[Jules]

Anyone doing this?

[andredb]

Could this be the opposite?? tranfering TO vinyl for the generation to come... (i mean 100+ years from now...)

Imagine a global war or a or that sort of thing... Hand operated turntables could be the only readable medium for the survivors....
I read somewhere a nucler war could erase every hard drive... (and humans too)

[opentune]

Originally Posted by andredb

I read somewhere a nucler war could erase every hard drive... (and humans too)

What about engineers? Or even producers? Will they get away?

This thread reminds me of my first contact with "tape compression". I was
the proud owner of "Live After Death" from Iron Maiden and tried to transfer
the album to tape (for my walkman) when i realised that i had the chance
to get a "louder" version by simply turning that "mysterious level wheel" on
the tape deck...
Well, it was louder but the sound wasn´t as cool as on the original --- couple of
years later i got into engineering...

[andredb]

Originally Posted by opentune

What about engineers? Or even producers? Will they get away?

And the guys from Waves too...

[opentune]

Originally Posted by andredb

And the guys from Waves too...

Guess you have seen that documentary where they explain how and why cockroaches survive a nuclear war..... right??

( DON`T want to start an "i hate waves" thread. )

Jules, do you mean anything specific like "which RIAA eq is best" or are you talking
about that subject in general??

[andredb]

OK OK, let's get back OnTopic

[Brad Blackwood]

I don't consider transfers mastering, personally, unless that's the actual source.

I don't do vinyl transfers anymore.

[fifthcircle]

In the midst of a vinyl transfer project. Part of an archival project for a performing ensemble who has 40 years of performances on media ranging from LP to cassette to various digital formats...

Not exactly glam work, but it sure can pay the bills.

--Ben

[dcollins]

The number one most important thing in these transfers is to be able to spell it.

Vinyl!

DC

[DrDeltaM]

Does any of you also does audio restoration rather then pure remastering?

[schizojames]

I have begun to do this in my town, and I must say it is hard to make it worth my time and at the same time get business. I offer a $5 per record base fee plus options such as Waves-based restoration for an additional $5 per record, and manual (get in there and edit the waveform) pop removal for two different rates, based on how intensive it gets. At full speed it may take an hour and a half for every hour of audio if I really pay attention while it goes to disk, but if they could just go out and buy the CD, that keeps me in the $10-15/hr range. Not bad for a college student, but only because I can read or surf the net at the same time! Countless thousands of albums on vinyl have not and may never be released on any other format, so I have that to my advantage when in the process of calculating a quote in the future.

Also, without a way to insert linked track markers (rounded to the nearest sector) on a single wav file containing an entire LP, it would not have been worth my time AT ALL!

[schizojames]

Oh, and as far as "remastering," I considered offering it, considering the fact that my clientelle wouldn't know the difference between a Kjaerhus Gold Channel and a Couple of Gyraf or Massenburg units...but then again I have this damned integrity to deal with. I only do a little EQ to compensate for the noise reduction crapulence.

That, and there is no way I can call myself a "qualified matering engineer."

[DrDeltaM]

Originally Posted by schizojames

I only do a little EQ to compensate for the noise reduction crapulence.

If you're getting noise reduction crapulence, you're either overdoing it or simply using a bad algorithm
When restoring for music purposes, rather then forensic, always keep the music in mind to leave it unaffected as much as possible. Sometimes that means leaving some noise in there, however a good algorithm can do amazing stuff. Just don't always expect total removal of noise.

[zemlin]

I do vinyl on occation (I have one waiting for a spin right now). I don't remaster unless the original clearly needs help. I just restore.

[Midlandmorgan]

We do a lot of LP or tape transfers to CD...most of the time, the transfers are done without too much, other than pop removal, or if the tape/record was REALLY bad off, some EQ...if compiling a project recorded by many different people on many different sources, then I try to get everything as equal as I can without over abusing the original source material...

One of our biggest projects like that was the complilation of 25 years of HS band music from a natioanlly acclaimed and awarded conductor...every track was recorded by some differing outfit, mixed differently, onto everything from portable cassette to remote 24 track, etc....get all THAT to keep the original vibe of each recording and establish some uniformity to the 5 CD project was....interesting.

[bob katz]

Originally Posted by DrDeltaM

Does any of you also does audio restoration rather then pure remastering?

"Also" and "rather"??? I ALSO do some restoration, but not "rather"---restoration here always in conjunction with my mastering. There are occasions when a good client reissuing a classic album in the progressive rock, salsa, and other fields---when the master tape has deteriorated, or is genuinely lost. In those cases I use my restoration skills to transfer from a virgin vinyl or as close to virgin as we can get, and then master from that. The mastering takes over once the vinyl has been as restored and is as click and crackle-free and surface noise has been dealt with "in an appropriate manner".

BK

[DrDeltaM]

Originally Posted by bob katz

"Also" and "rather"??? I ALSO do some restoration, but not "rather"---restoration here always in conjunction with my mastering. There are occasions when a good client reissuing a classic album in the progressive rock, salsa, and other fields---when the master tape has deteriorated, or is genuinely lost. In those cases I use my restoration skills to transfer from a virgin vinyl or as close to virgin as we can get, and then master from that. The mastering takes over once the vinyl has been as restored and is as click and crackle-free and surface noise has been dealt with "in an appropriate manner".

BK

That means you're in the 'also' category ;-) Sorry if I wasn't clear in my question, I just noticed there are people who remaster stuff coming from vinyl (as in using comp/EQ/limit/... -tools) but they don't restore (declick/decrackle/denoise/...).

[Cellotron]

Originally Posted by andredb

Could this be the opposite?? tranfering TO vinyl for the generation to come... (i mean 100+ years from now...)

Imagine a global war or a or that sort of thing... Hand operated turntables could be the only readable medium for the survivors....
I read somewhere a nucler war could erase every hard drive... (and humans too)

Actually - there IS someone doing this!! The Scientologists have a mastering studio (complete with not just one but two Neumann VMS-82 systems) where they are cutting DMM's (Direct Metal Masters) from tapes of L. Ron Hubbard's various speeches, and then plating these in something like platinum and putting the metal discs into time capsules along with specially designed hand cranked turntables.

Sometimes truth is stranger than fiction.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[schizojames]

Originally Posted by DrDeltaM

If you're getting noise reduction crapulence, you're either overdoing it or simply using a bad algorithm

Do you have a suggestion of a better algorithm, or perhaps an outboard piece? I am not entirely satisfied with Waves stuff either, but that's what I have now.

Originally Posted by DrDeltaM

always keep the music in mind to leave it unaffected as much as possible.

I currently leave it up to the client to decide if they want to stay true to the sound that is on there, or if they want the recording to sound closer to how it sounded originally. With the latter, especially on worn copies, I have very seldom found that makeup EQ is not not necessary, especially when using XNoise. I prefer to leave an album untouched, but when restoring some 60-year-old home pressings of a family gathering, hearing the voices on the record was considered the priority (sentimental value), and heavy plugin use and pop-removal (an thus EQ) was appropriate to get past the horrific quality.

[DrDeltaM]

Originally Posted by schizojames

Do you have a suggestion of a better algorithm, or perhaps an outboard piece? I am not entirely satisfied with Waves stuff either, but that's what I have now.

I currently leave it up to the client to decide if they want to stay true to the sound that is on there, or if they want the recording to sound closer to how it sounded originally. With the latter, especially on worn copies, I have very seldom found that makeup EQ is not not necessary, especially when using XNoise. I prefer to leave an album untouched, but when restoring some 60-year-old home pressings of a family gathering, hearing the voices on the record was considered the priority (sentimental value), and heavy plugin use and pop-removal (an thus EQ) was appropriate to get past the horrific quality.

If the client decides you have to remove all noise, even if that harms the actual music, well that's kinda up to him of course. You can always try to talk him out of it, but client is king in the end.

I recently started working with Cedar Cambridge, as I'm now doing Cedar Audio Product Support for the Benelux distributor Joystick Audio. It's a VERY impressive system, they're world leader in audio restoration for something
It's not exactly the cheapest system tho, however they also have more affordable dedicated 1U rackprocessors with one algorithm as well as plugins for various systems (ProTools Win XP, Pyramix, SADiE and Soundscape).

[fifthcircle]

I often provide restoration services to my clients... Methods of reduction vary depending on the needs of the project. Being in LA, I can rent a Cedar Cambridge system easily if I need that kind of power (and I can save myself the $40K pricetag). My own rig here consists of Sequoia with the TC Powercore restoration package (decent for buzz/crackle, not so hot for broadband noise reduction). I can get the Algorithmix tools easily until I have the cash to purchase them for myself... I also have a GML 9550 box here as well which, if you don't need to work at 96K, sounds pretty !@#$!$ amazing for broadband reduction.


--Ben

[dcollins]

The number two most important thing is to optimise the transfer. You will be amazed how much lower the noise will be after a simple cleaning and playback with the right arm/cartridge.

The less exotic noise reduction you need, the lower the artefacts.

Actually, noise is your friend!


DC

[Masterer]

Don't do it anymore but...

did many transfers when I worked at Sony. For archiving, restoration, remastering the whole shebang. Everything from Louis Armstrong to early Dixieland jazz.
Lots of Cedar and Sonic Solutions NoNoise and stuff. We had some tweeked out turntables from Rockport. Two of three that were made. Had to pour a 400lb concrete slab just to support the damn thing. The turntable base was floated on air by compressors we kept in a seperate room down the hall. Absolutely hysterical overkill. Enough to make any audiophiles head explode. What could be funner than that? Good times.

Oh yeah, I did a record last year for a Swedish band. I cut the master to vinyl then transferred it back to digital just to get that "vinyl magic". Also hysterical overkill. Also fun.

[max cooper]

Originally Posted by dcollins

The number two most important thing is to optimise the transfer. You will be amazed how much lower the noise will be after a simple cleaning and playback with the right arm/cartridge.

IMO this can't be overstated.

[lozion]

Originally Posted by schizojames

I have begun to do this in my town, and I must say it is hard to make it worth my time and at the same time get business. I offer a $5 per record base fee plus options such as Waves-based restoration for an additional $5 per record, and manual (get in there and edit the waveform) pop removal for two different rates, based on how intensive it gets. At full speed it may take an hour and a half for every hour of audio if I really pay attention while it goes to disk, but if they could just go out and buy the CD, that keeps me in the $10-15/hr range. Not bad for a college student, but only because I can read or surf the net at the same time! Countless thousands of albums on vinyl have not and may never be released on any other format, so I have that to my advantage when in the process of calculating a quote in the future.

Also, without a way to insert linked track markers (rounded to the nearest sector) on a single wav file containing an entire LP, it would not have been worth my time AT ALL!

Hey, this is interesting as I'm thinking of offering a similar service as well.
With the Ipod rage going on, I'm wondering if its worth it.
What about a straight transfer from vinyl to MP3? No cd burning and incumbing fees, the client comes with his/her Ipod or Mp3 player and syncs to the comp.
How did you evaluate your fee's? Indeed, if you can get about 15$/h, (or 1 vinyl/h) its not too bad. Especially if a client wants to transfer a 50 vinyl collection. Do it when when you have free time, sipping coffee in the morning while reading GS!

How do you do your promo? Any tips to share?
Thanks,