How often do the masterers choose DDP, now in mid 2011

[IIIrd]

Originally Posted by 8080JP

I dont agree here.
In my opinion he has pointed out instances where digital copies have sounded different.

I know a number of musicians who can hear these differences, although much less today than say 4 years ago with better technology.

His masters sound great by the way. Bought 2 of the CD's he mastered.

I take it null tests were performed to make sure they were in fact different, rather than just thinking (or just saying) they were.

Prism sound did an investigation, here's a link.

http://www.prismsound.com/m_r_downloads/cdinvest.pdf

More likely to be the cd player than the discs

[Cellotron]

Originally Posted by IIIrd

I take it null tests were performed to make sure they were in fact different, rather than just thinking (or just saying) they were.

I'd say it's very likely that this actually was not the case. My feeling is that the conclusions posted on that page were achieved anecdotally and with very little (to no) actual scientific process to verify or debunk them.

Anyhoo - even John Vestman has in a kind of oblique way distanced himself from his statements in his posting on top of that page - CD/Audio Mastering - Digital Myths? ->

Disclaimer: I have received a few emails questioning this information, posted between 1999 and 2005. I sincerely appreciate the continued discussion on this topic, and most people who have contacted me have been polite, well informed and well-meaning. Since my time is taken up with mastering and mixing projects, I'm simply leaving this article up as information and examples/experiences. Do your own research - ultimlately with your ears - and come to your own conclusions. Thank you.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[Cellotron]

Originally Posted by 8080JP

His masters sound great by the way. Bought 2 of the CD's he mastered.

Being able to make great processing decisions when mastering audio, and having an understanding of how digital audio and optical disc replication and playback technology actually work don't necessarily go hand in hand.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[jdg]

i push DDP whenever possible. and i push hard (twss)

[IIIrd]

Originally Posted by Cellotron

I'd say it's very likely that this actually was not the case. My feeling is that the conclusions posted on that page were achieved anecdotally and with very little (to no) actual scientific process to verify or debunk them.

Anyhoo - even John Vestman has in a kind of oblique way distanced himself from his statements in his posting on top of that page - CD/Audio Mastering - Digital Myths? ->



Best regards,
Steve Berson

We've had a client that claimed a cdr burnt by a different engineer to that which did the mastering as noticeably different to the one burnt by the ME.

The cdr was burnt, from the same edl on the same daw in the same room, in the same week on the same stock on the same burner, as the first one burnt in the original mastering session.

The client swore blind they were chalk and cheese. They both, of course nulled, against each other and the source. A replacement was burnt by the original engineer....which of course was fine....

Once people get it into their heads that something maybe different, and in this case it was the engineer, then thats what they'll hear. Also, if they make a big enough fuss about it, other people will hear it too, and depending on who made the fuss, they'll really want to hear it.

On some projects we get test cd's like one one test pressings. We had some from Japan, europe and usa...all nulled to the source, with each other and sounded the same (same cd player, same converters)...as one would expect.

anyroad...back to the original question.

I produce more more DDPI's these days..mainly because thats EMI's preffered format.
Mostly though it's what the client asks for, and that depends on their factories prefrered medium. So the client asks the factory, then tells us. You'd think it'd be ddpi all the way, but thats not the case from my experience.

[acorneau]

Originally Posted by IIIrd

We've had a client that claimed a cdr burnt by a different engineer to that which did the mastering as noticeably different to the one burnt by the ME.

The cdr was burnt, from the same edl on the same daw in the same room, in the same week on the same stock on the same burner, as the first one burnt in the original mastering session.

The client swore blind they were chalk and cheese. They both, of course nulled, against each other and the source. A replacement was burnt by the original engineer....which of course was fine....

I had a person come in today claiming that the duplicated copies of her single were different from the original file (from a thumb drive) and possibly different from a copy made by another third party. (FYI: None of the material was done by me.)

I did a null test between the original file and a duped copy (it nulled perfectly), the original file and the 3rd party copy (it nulled perfectly) and then the duped copy and the 3rd party copy (which also nulled).

She was finally convinced that the files/CD's were in fact the same. She was quite relieved that all was well with her copies and happy that I spent a little time to show her the true facts and not just another opinion.

[DAS19]

What is a ddp? What's a rebook cdrom?

Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL using Gearslutz.com App

[AUDIOBOMBER]

10% here

[Switchcraft]

90% sequenced 16 bit 44.1 WAVs
5% DDP
5% Redbook.

[Jerry Tubb]

DDP everyday, since all discs burned with Sonic sB & PMCD are from the DDP it generates.

We've seen an increase in requests for electronic DDP delivery as of the late, mainly with clients that are using D*skM*kers for replication, they seem to be encouraging clients to use DDP upload.

Reference listening copies are made from the same DDPi that gets uploaded, so it's a good system.

But normally we direct our clients to one of the high quality local replication folks in Austin, it's part of the referral system we adhere to.

99% of our clients still want physical hard copy master discs, even if it's just for their archives.

As to the subject of discs sounding different, I think we've all heard that happen, it's probably a mixture of these factors:

DACs & wordclocks of different disc and media players.
slight laser misalignments? pit geometry?
media type, burn speed, burner type, DAW software
etc, etc, etc... lots of myth and voodoo out there.
and the "almighty" placebo effect and expectation bias.

funny thing, most of the time these "different sounding" discs will Null when ripped into your favorite DAW.

I've compared different sounding CD-R masters and replicated discs, and found they did indeed null.
proper blind AB testing on the same hi quality DAC did reduce sonic differences to Nill.

So the DDP delivery method seems like a good idea, I like the purity of it.

Then there are those that will say that internet upload, or burning to a data DVD will change the sound :-) which of course is hogwarsh, esp if the zip/checksum method works properly.

JT

[bendermastering]

40% of times I delivery sequenced wav files by internet
50% of times I delivery a RedBook compliant CD
5% of times I delivery a DDPi on DVD
5% of times I delivery both a RedBook compliant CD and a DDPi on DVD

[kosmokrator]

for CD replication, almost 100% DDPi these days.
For online, wavs and mp3s.

[Tarekith]

For album work it's about 80% DDP online, 10% physical Red Book CD, 10% sequenced wavs. Most clients ask for CD initially, but once I verify their duplicator/replicator accepts DDP and explain the benefits to the client, they usually want to go that route. I''ll happily send them a reference CD as well if they want.

[Thor]

80% DDP, either on physical medium or zipped and MD5'd for digital delivery to a plant or label.
15% Digital files, for cutting vinyl, high and low res digital sale/distribution
5% Redbook CD (although in fairness all clients get a CD ref, in addition to whatever other format they request)

Thor

[Petrus]

DDP only, on USB memory stick, with PDF graphics for the booklet and inlays. I like to deliver data personally to check everything is perfect (tecnically, that is...), replication agent/broker is fortunatelly just 4 km away.

[nickmoon]

Originally Posted by jdg

i push DDP whenever possible. and i push hard (twss)

I'm with you, I'll even volunteer to upload the DDP to the replicator... packaging / shipping / QC of a Disc?? Yawn.....

[anrug]

Originally Posted by 8080JP

With technology and awareness on the improve and now that we are in MID 2011,
just wondering what percentage of masters are now in DDP format to be sent to the plant.

Good question I think.

Over here it' roughly:
95% DDP (on DVD-R)
5% CD-Audio

Oh, I forgot the SACD realeases, those are DDP plus soundfiles (DSDIFF or WAVE) for the DSD layer (5 + 2 channels)

Are the results as accurate on the manufactured disk as the original wavfiles , or do the sounds sound everso slightly worse.

Results over here are equally perfect (which in a way makes sense as a plant "rips" a CD and does not read it like a normal CD player). So far, I have not found a single bit lost in the replication process, maybe because I have not tested all of my.

Have any of you ever experienced a pressing where the replica was not identical to the master, when read in by a computer that ist. A CD player ist not of much use for testing this, I think.

Te funny thing as some masterers and sound engineers have noticed, for some strange reason different CD- Roms can sound different, no one knows why.

Can you explain that in more detail? A CD-ROM itself you can not listen to it's the soundfiles stored on it you can listen to, or am I mixing up somthing here?

Anyway I am wondering if the SONORIS DDP CREATOR is top of the range.

Sonoris is well respected here. That said, there is not much magic about DDP. It's a CD (audio) image format, like cue/wave, cue/bin, Pyramix' .pmi-files, or Sequoia's wave/hdp. You can verify it's doing the right thing by a number of means. Sequoia and Pyramix I can report to work transparently in that regard.

I'd simply test the software, Sonoris does a few handy things none of the DAW software has to offer.

[Cheebs Goat]

I swear some days people must forget that other types of content also go on digital media.

If I copy a digital photograph 5000 times will it lose color saturation? Will it become fuzzy?

If I copy a video game 5000 times will the enemies become slower and easier? Will some of the walls to jump over become shorter?

If I copy a text document 5000 times will the writing get worse? Will "They're running away" change to "Their running away"?



Every single bit has to be there with 100% accuracy or something like a game just won't work. If by chance a lossy copy error does occur it won't show up as a degradation. It will be a crash-inducing train wreck.

[streaky]

Originally Posted by nickmoon

I'm with you, I'll even volunteer to upload the DDP to the replicator... packaging / shipping / QC of a Disc?? Yawn.....

couldn't agree more...


Red Book CD's are so 2009!!!

[lu432]

1% DDP
4% Red Book
95% mp3 or wav files

I think I have done 1 DDP delivery in 2 years.

[masteringhouse]

I haven't calculated overall percentages, it is very dependent on the plant that the client chooses.

For Discmakers clients it's getting pretty close to 100% DDP with Sonoris being used for client references.

There are some plants I've run across that insist on CD images that are not DDP and others that request CD audio that have been proofed by the client for CYA reasons.

[mixerguy]

Very cool thread.

I'm happy to see so much DDP action.

Is anyone having any problems with the CURRENT verison of Peak Studio in making DDPs - as long as (and especially when) they use the now included free 3rd party DDP loadback utility program to CHECK Peak's output DDP?

Thanks