Tom Coyne at Sterling Sound

[t_d]

i thought the exact same thing...

Originally Posted by GYMusic

Love the song. The mix is way over the top for me. I had to listen to the beginning three times before I realized that her notes on beats 3 and 4 were not distorting on the right channel, but it was a cello or string sample that competed with her notes. Very distracting. IMHO, this mix does not do the song justice. I felt beat up at the end.

[Khoskins]

Nice work on the song. I've had some stuff down by Tom. Very impressed.

[bass man]

Originally Posted by ORC

Plenty loud, yet still dynamic.

What is dynamic about this , it sounds almost like a sine wave ....

[cinealta]

Good effort. The vocals are too loud and overcompressed. They distort on the intro humming part. Should have muted that cello during the intro humming. Not enough dynamic range for an arrangement which should naturally crescendo to a climax. Vocalist is good. Thanks for sharing.

[steveo52]

Hi i,am new too this forum ,came across this by accident
as a studio owner and singer songwriter i think the song and the vocal
are execlent .cheers from australia

[nimblemongoose]

With all the expensive engineers churning out distorted sound like this, there's no wonder artists are trying to produce their own records. This is a complete shame. When are good sounding records going to be made again?

[Masterer]

Originally Posted by nimblemongoose

With all the expensive engineers churning out distorted sound like this, there's no wonder artists are trying to produce their own records. This is a complete shame. When are good sounding records going to be made again?

I know.

It's so crazy how those expensive engineers ruin the artists records forcing them to have to resort to doing it themselves.

It sounds so much better when you do it yourself without the influence of those expensive engineers, right?

Yeah man.

[huejahfink]

Originally Posted by Masterer

I know.

It's so crazy how those expensive engineers ruin the artists records forcing them to have to resort to doing it themselves.

It sounds so much better when you do it yourself without the influence of those expensive engineers, right?

Yeah man.

Kinda reminds me of that Bill Hicks sketch where he's talking about the outcry over the supposed "satanic messages" being put into Judas Priest songs which "caused" two lads to commit suicide.
Bill poses the question "WHAT performer wants his audience dead? What's the long-term GAIN here?"

[audioaddict]

Originally Posted by Masterer

I know.

It's so crazy how those expensive engineers ruin the artists records forcing them to have to resort to doing it themselves.

It sounds so much better when you do it yourself without the influence of those expensive engineers, right?

Yeah man.

I totally agree that this guy's logic is flawed, but I'm starting to wonder if Engineers are starting off with a higher baseline of loudness, clipping of drums, etc. just to "speed up the process" with certain artists? I just don't get how any "professional" in this business can willingly create that garbage. There's loud, but then there's unlistenable....

That Teflon Don Rick Ross album track "Super High" has some of the worst drums I've ever heard (that intro part is just frustrating), as are a good portion of the T.I. album "Paper Trail". I dig the music on these albums but wish the mixes left the studio of someone more competent.

Gotta be frustrating to master something knowing some areas you cannot improve.

[Masterer]

Originally Posted by audioaddict

That Teflon Don Rick Ross album track "Super High" has some of the worst drums I've ever heard (that intro part is just frustrating), as are a good portion of the T.I. album "Paper Trail". I dig the music on these albums but wish the mixes left the studio of someone more competent.

Gotta be frustrating to master something knowing some areas you cannot improve.

Actually, If memory serves, the mix on "Super High" was ok. Most of that crazy level happened in mastering [you're welcome]. If you don't like it talk to the producer. He specifically asked for it to be that way, knowing full well what the compromises would be. As the loudness pros and cons conversation was had numerous times. That was his choice 'cause it was his project.

Ultimately a professional engineer is there to deliver for the client even when that engineer does not necessarily agree with the clients taste.

You try to influence people in the "right" direction and then you give them something that makes them happy.

It's all about happy endings man.

[audioaddict]

Originally Posted by Masterer

Actually, If memory serves, the mix on "Super High" was ok. Most of that crazy level happened in mastering [you're welcome]. If you don't like it talk to the producer. He specifically asked for it to be that way, knowing full well what the compromises would be. As the loudness pros and cons conversation was had numerous times. That was his choice 'cause it was his project.

Ultimately a professional engineer is there to deliver for the client even when that engineer does not necessarily agree with the clients taste.

You try to influence people in the "right" direction and then you give them something that makes them happy.

It's all about happy endings man.

I hear ya....sucks to have no leverage in the situation. I wish these producers could be sentenced to a 2 hour listening session at very high SPL on a bright system as punishment!!!

I'm lucky because I happen to be a Professional Engineer (PE) myself (electrical & fire protection systems for buildings). I have building codes and the law on my side.....life safety trumps "taste" fortunately so while I'm willing to compromise to a certain extent, I'll never have to submit to anything absurd.

Maybe this "Society" of Mastering Engineers can find a professor who will write a paper on how a louder record is inherently harmful to one's hearing over the long haul, even at low listening levels. Enact some legislation which requires the ME to adhere to these levels, and now you cannot legally master super hot.

Sounds like a stretch, but it's not too unrealistic as OSHA has set guidelines for maximum time a worker can be exposed to certain SPL.

Hope you didn't take offense Chris...."Free Mason", "Maybach Music III" and "Aston Martin Music" sound great. Musically, super high was my favorite song.

If only it were an Xzibit song.

[Masterer]

Originally Posted by audioaddict

If only it were an Xzibit song.

Indeed.

[nimblemongoose]

Originally Posted by Masterer

I know.

It's so crazy how those expensive engineers ruin the artists records forcing them to have to resort to doing it themselves.

It sounds so much better when you do it yourself without the influence of those expensive engineers, right?

Yeah man.

You completely misunderstood my post. No one is forcing anyone to do anything, except maybe the artists who want their audio this loud. This is when us engineers need to be the voice of reason. I know a bunch of intelligent, and schooled musicians who refuse to use engineers because they hear the loudness dogma so many of us have played into. They've used engineers in the past who've (some under explicit contrary guidelines) crushed the beauty right out of their records. These are the artists I was referring to. Will they be able to beat the sound of trained pros in a good room? I'd say more often than not, no. Will they feel comforted that their artistic vision will be intact? Yes! In the end it's the artists music.

Loudness has become the "rule" of the game, and if engineers can't perceive when it's necessary to break this rule, they're in need of some soul searching.

You can get off your smug high horse, because I'm an "expensive engineer" also, but I'd never NEVER let anything this distorted walk out of my door. If you think this is artistic you're one of the those guys who needs soul searching.

[Masterer]

Originally Posted by nimblemongoose

You can get off your smug high horse, because I'm an "expensive engineer" also, but I'd never NEVER let anything this distorted walk out of my door. If you think this is artistic you're one of the those guys who needs soul searching.

Oh, good for you dear.

You must be VERY expensive.

[nimblemongoose]

Originally Posted by Masterer

Oh, good for you dear.

You must be VERY expensive.

Do you think post count has anything to do with experience? This website needs to be shaken up a little! It's at polar opposites. People who have no clue what they're doing, and people who believe their rude comments over the internet are gold. There are some good users on here, but since I've been on this site, I feel like there are a lot of users circle jerking themselves. You don't make this place very inviting. Is this the tone you use with your clientele?

I work with string quartets and jazz musicians. Maybe I'm totally out of the loop with what's 'in" right now in terms of"popular" music sonics. If this sounds good to my peers in other musical genres, I'm glad, SOOOOOO GLAD I'm working with the music I am. This quality does not stand with the audience of classical and jazz.

[Masterer]

Originally Posted by nimblemongoose

Do you think post count has anything to do with experience?

God I hope not.

Originally Posted by nimblemongoose

..I feel like there are a lot of users circle jerking themselves.

How's that now?

Originally Posted by nimblemongoose

You don't make this place very inviting.

Next time I'll bake cookies.

Originally Posted by nimblemongoose

Is this the tone you use with your clientele? I work with string quartets and jazz musicians.

I'll try to watch my tone. I wouldn't want to offend any Jazz musicians or string quartets.

Originally Posted by nimblemongoose

Maybe I'm totally out of the loop with what's 'in" right now as far as "popular music sonics. If this sounds good to my peers in other musical genres, I'm glad, SOOOOOO GLAD I'm working with who I'm working with. This quality does not stand with the audience of classical and jazz.

Sounds like you've got nothing to worry about.

Welcome to the forum.

We should probably get back on topic now.

[nimblemongoose]

Originally Posted by Masterer

We should probably get back on topic now.

It doesn't sound good, PERIOD

[Conchious]

Overall - wide enough, good tune, late beatle-harrison chords. - the male backup (?) on the left is woofy, too close, sounds like an octaver.

[audioaddict]

Originally Posted by nimblemongoose

Do you think post count has anything to do with experience? This website needs to be shaken up a little! It's at polar opposites. People who have no clue what they're doing, and people who believe their rude comments over the internet are gold. There are some good users on here, but since I've been on this site, I feel like there are a lot of users circle jerking themselves. You don't make this place very inviting. Is this the tone you use with your clientele?

I work with string quartets and jazz musicians. Maybe I'm totally out of the loop with what's 'in" right now in terms of"popular" music sonics. If this sounds good to my peers in other musical genres, I'm glad, SOOOOOO GLAD I'm working with the music I am. This quality does not stand with the audience of classical and jazz.

"Masterer" does a lot of high profile work with big names. His problem is if he soup ****s an artist, they will go to another engineer at his shop or another big name. Unless the entire mastering industry acts collectively, someone, somewhere will do what's asked. Unfortunately this is the nature of the business as it stands now.

It's a good thing you work in jazz/classical......the only genres where the limits of mastering are on the talents of everyone involved, no compromises with the suits.

I believe country music is the best of the "pop" genres also...

[Masterer]

Originally Posted by audioaddict

"Masterer" does a lot of high profile work with big names. His problem is if he soup ****s an artist, they will go to another engineer at his shop or another big name. Unless the entire mastering industry acts collectively, someone, somewhere will do what's asked. Unfortunately this is the nature of the business as it stands now.

It's a good thing you work in jazz/classical......the only genres where the limits of mastering are on the talents of everyone involved, no compromises with the suits.

I believe country music is the best of the "pop" genres also...

I've done Jazz records where the ARTIST wanted the record to be very loud.

Country too.

Depends on the artist. Not the genre.

[audioaddict]

Originally Posted by Masterer

I've done Jazz records where the ARTIST wanted the record to be very loud.

Country too.

Depends on the artist. Not the genre.

[Riccardo]

Originally Posted by Masterer

I've done Jazz records where the ARTIST wanted the record to be very loud.

Country too.

Depends on the artist. Not the genre.

Agreed, we have also had the same experience. We have also had producers for choir releases asking for "as loud as pop"

[Multiplexer]

I think the instruments sound excellent but the vocals are compressed to the point that it hurts my ears. Extremely bright! I also hear distortion through out the song but perhaps that is due to it being an mp3.

[nimblemongoose]

Originally Posted by Masterer

I've done Jazz records where the ARTIST wanted the record to be very loud.

Country too.

Depends on the artist. Not the genre.

Well as fate would have it I got one of these artists. An alternative cello ensemble.

It's still not distorting like this though. I don't want to be too harsh on the OP track, it does sound professional, but unmusically professional.

[MikeK]

Originally Posted by Rev. Eslam

All I know is that whoever is responsible for this production could learn alot from 1970's recordings by Cat Stevens, Chinn/Chapman, ELO and similar artists.

Mr. Albini certainly would be impressed either. That's for sure. tutt

I honestly wonder if there's a factory where they make you people. Where do you all come from?

The amazing, endless supply of whiny nostalgia robots released onto the gs forums... Come to think of it, they really should change the name of the mastering forum to "Crybaby Forum".

Spend less time worrying about what others are doing and go make the music you're into