I'm not in the archiving business.......

[ryst]

So I get 2 songs to master for a client back in September. I do the job, send him the WAV and MP3's of the final masters and he loves them...bla bla bla.
I don't archive mastering sessions for as long as I might archive mix sessions. I find that I'm able to duplicate a mastering job I've previously done (which I've only had to do a few times) very well starting from scratch. And no one has ever asked me to revisit a mastering job 3 months after it's finished unless there is a change in the mix (which in this case, there wasn't).

A couple weeks later he asks me to send them to him again because he "accidentally" deleted them from his computer. Luckily for him, I didn't delete the files off my computer or the sessions at that point. So I resent the files to him. After I sent them to him I told him how important it was to keep his files in a safe place because its his music.

Then tonight he texts me asking for the files again. REALLY??? He wants me to send him the files for a 3rd time. Too bad. I not only deleted the files from my computer but they are no longer on the server either. And I'm pretty sure he doesn't even have a copy of the original mixes.

I honestly don't understand how you could "accidentally" delete your own music even once? But he did it twice. Having your HD crash is one thing, but deleting the files because you're too irresponsible to archive/backup/save your own music is beyond me.

I'm not in the archiving business. To all the people out there who hire people like me to mix or master your records, please keep your own copy of your music in a safe place. It's your music. Have some self-respect.

[Nahuel]

Right, sure, agreed...aint that mastering forum/moan zone material? Where's the rap hip hop engineering part?

[chris carter]

This is part of the reason why I deliver physical masters when I mix records. People lose files they download all the time. I have yet to have anyone lose a physical master. When it's physical, they take care of it and put it some place they won't lose it.

EDIT: I do keep my own set of archives on DVD, but I don't tell the clients that. And honestly, I really don't want to have to dig into them if a client loses something! I just moved and I have BOXES AND BOXES AND BOXES of archives and I have no intention of openning them LOL

[clivek]

How about a simple Terms and conditions email before you provide work.

Stating files will only be kept for an peroid of time !

[EDF]

I'm a paranoid person. I keep all sessions on an external and server with no Internet access.

[dhiltonlittle]

I always archive every session I do and have it backed up in at least two different places. I've had requests for music I've done in the past that if i didn't have would cost me sometimes tens of thousands of dollars. Mainly music for tv spots/adds but deleting any clients files is not a habit I like to get into. I can see how a client that is not the most responsible person in the world can be annoying...trust me I know! But at the same time, hard drive space is dirt cheap and you never know when you'll need to pull something back up when it counts.

[malgfunk]

I had a client that I mixed a half dozen songs for over a span of three months. During this three months I had severe issues with payment from the client for the mixes. So after a year or so the client wanted me to "recall" a mix GUESS WHAT?fuuck

[Studio507]

I pretty much keep everything, ever. Same @ the studio. HD space is cheap as shit, it doesn't make sense not too IMO

[HoPMiX]

maybe you should be in archiving biz.
$25 per delivered master.
3 tracks=75 bucks every time you hit upload and send to this dude.

To add: I work in the Film and television space where Data comes in the butt loads.
I would never ever ever recommend storing anything on a hard drive for any type of shelf life.
They could last 2 weeks or 2 years, but there is no science as to when they will fail.
So unless you have a Raid and are good about maintaining your storage, or you are doing daily tape backups, (or DVD) your data is not safe.
And even with a raid, I just send 8TB SAS off to data recovery for a client. It was 22 grand for recovery. They could have bought a SAN and a tape back up for that. They had 2 drives fail at once. 2 out of 8 means death of data
Thats just technical failure. Lets not consider fires, floods, theft, crazy women.
you know.. Acts of God.

[Studio507]

Originally Posted by HoPMiX

maybe you should be in archiving biz.
$25 per delivered master.
3 tracks=75 bucks every time you hit upload and send to this dude.

great answer!

[rickrock305]

That's how most studios handle it. If you want then to backup your stuff it's gonna cost you $$

[beat you down]

Recuva - Undelete, Unerase, File and Disk Recovery - Free Download

^ might come in handy sometimes.

[AUDIOBOMBER]

dataloss set`s free.

[ed littman]

I used to delete after I was sure the CD was manufactured. However, now I keep everything ..cause there have been to many times years later that I've gotten a random email from an old client looking for me to create a new master or some tweak for a reissue etc. This could be new income that was lost.
With all that said, I do not charge for archiving as I don't want to be responsible if something does get lost.

Ed

[bgrotto]

I keep an archive drive of every record I work on (that's tracking, mixing, and/or producing, not mastering). It contains all the PT sessions -- albeit with all non-master takes and unused regions removed and deleted -- as well as the files I send to the mastering house.

I mirror this drive so I have everything archived twice.

I don't know why, but having it gives me peace of mind. Or rather, NOT having it gives me, er, dispeace of mind.

In addition, I get my clients to buy a drive (or two) so they can have additional backups in their possession.

I guess my take on it is, ya never know when you might wanna go back into an old session. Even if it's to grab a snare sample, or to see what you did on a particular mix, or maybe to answer some questions on GS when the record blows up and Jules invites you to do a guest Q&A. There's been too many times I've been bummed out about losing or not keeping an old session.

It's important to note, however, that I stress to every client that I cannot guarantee the safety or lifespan of the data, and that I'm storing it to satisfy MY neuroses, not to archive it on their behalf.

[acorneau]

One of my sessions today:

Restore a project I did in 2007 and make a new Replication Pre-master.

It doesn't happen a lot but enough to archive every project. We make "unofficial" archives, meaning our clients don't pay us anything for us to do it but if the building burns down and we loose everything they can't sue us for loosing their materials. If they call years later (as my session today) then we look like heros.

Seems to work for me!

[scraggs]

i have multiple copies of every session i've ever done. what's the big deal with taking a few minutes to make backups? then the client asks you for something years later, you say sure no prob and look like a hero.

[finetuner]

There's a line in my terms & conditions stating that the client is responsible to keep their own backups.

Obviously, as a M.E. i keep my own backups.
Keeping those any longer than necessary for my own peace of mind, i consider it a service that doesn't cost me too much.

A simple 100$ external drive can buy many years of goodwill.

[lowland]

Originally Posted by acorneau

One of my sessions today:

Restore a project I did in 2007 and make a new Replication Pre-master.

It doesn't happen a lot but enough to archive every project. We make "unofficial" archives, meaning our clients don't pay us anything for us to do it but if the building burns down and we loose everything they can't sue us for loosing their materials. If they call years later (as my session today) then we look like heros.

Seems to work for me!

This mirrors my own experience. Session settings are noted within SADiE and saved with the project. Both projects and audio are regularly backed up to multiple locations, so I'm as confident as I can be that I have both technical disaster recovery and remasters of older projects covered.

If I'm having to ferret through the archives to restore something I did years ago for a new version I'll sometimes charge for the time if appropriate, though not having to reinvent the wheel greatly offsets that and no-one's complained yet.

[Lagerfeldt]

I always archive the full session and store the analog recall sheets for a couple of years or more upon request.

Seriously, this doesn't take a lot of time and customers feel safe that they can always get their stuff back later if they **** up.

People requesting a resend after deleting their own stuff two or three times? Happened a couple of times.

[PBM]

Originally Posted by lowland

This mirrors my own experience. Session settings are noted within SADiE and saved with the project. Both projects and audio are regularly backed up to multiple locations, so I'm as confident as I can be that I have both technical disaster recovery and remasters of older projects covered.

Yup - used to add project notes and then archive all our SADiE sessions onto Sony AIT tapes. You could pop to the shops and cook your family dinner while that was happening ...

Nowadays we use the one-button `Back-up Project to DVD' option in Sequoia - sadly that only gives you just enough time to get out and scratch a couple of dog's ears.

Cheers,

Eric

[jackthebear]

Originally Posted by ed littman

With all that said, I do not charge for archiving as I don't want to be responsible if something does get lost.

Same here Ed........charging for archiving can open quite a can of worms if anything goes wrong.....

It's amazing how slack some people get about their masters......even the original mix files.......

[Riccardo]

Originally Posted by ed littman

I used to delete after I was sure the CD was manufactured. However, now I keep everything ..cause there have been to many times years later that I've gotten a random email from an old client looking for me to create a new master or some tweak for a reissue etc. This could be new income that was lost.
With all that said, I do not charge for archiving as I don't want to be responsible if something does get lost.

Ed

Same here. We do not officially keep archived material but in practice we do have back-up for roughly at least five years of past work. Same applies to the our recording/mixing room

[Thomas W. Bethe]

We leave the masters on our working hard drives for about 6 weeks and then transfer them to a back up drive where they sit for about 6 months and then to DVDs or CDs. We charge clients $35.00 for a one year archiving if they request it. Seems to work GREAT!

[lowland]

Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe

We charge clients $35.00 for a one year archiving if they request it. Seems to work GREAT!

What happens if they've paid for archiving, request a restore of an old project and the restore fails? That's the one I can't get around with those kinds of fees, and it doesn't feel like any extra archiving income would be worth it if I got sued for data loss.

[Thomas W. Bethe]

Originally Posted by lowland

What happens if they've paid for archiving, request a restore of an old project and the restore fails? That's the one I can't get around with those kinds of fees, and it doesn't feel like any extra archiving income would be worth it if I got sued for data loss.

Very good point...so far (loud sound of Tom knocking on wood) it hasn't happened to us. But I guess we need to look at the wording of our archiving contract. Thanks for the heads up.

[lowland]

Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe

Very good point...so far (loud sound of Tom knocking on wood) it hasn't happened to us. But I guess we need to look at the wording of our archiving contract. Thanks for the heads up.

No problem. I remember Brad Blackwood making that point on his board years ago, which is what originally alerted me to the potential conflict and why I don't charge for archiving per se.

[jamesp]

I've just recently been asked if I still have a master from 1990. Up until the last move I would have been able to find it in a few minutes but I suspect it is now under a pile of other masters in storage.

Now that media is so cheap, I keep copies of everything.

James.

[Dave Davis]

Originally Posted by lowland

What happens if they've paid for archiving, request a restore of an old project and the restore fails? That's the one I can't get around with those kinds of fees, and it doesn't feel like any extra archiving income would be worth it if I got sued for data loss.

This is a Terms of Service issue, not necessarily a liability. Every hard disk, CD-R or DVD-R ever made comes with a simple, clear notice: when this media fails, you're entitled to replacement media, at best.

In this case, the ToS should be: if our archive cannot be restored you get your $35 back.

This isn't rocket science, or even Law & Order. Lets not reinvent the wheel when there are conventional solutions.

-d-

[lowland]

Originally Posted by Dave Davis

This is a Terms of Service issue, not necessarily a liability. Every hard disk, CD-R or DVD-R ever made comes with a simple, clear notice: when this media fails, you're entitled to replacement media, at best.

In this case, the ToS should be: if our archive cannot be restored you get your $35 back.

This isn't rocket science, or even Law & Order. Lets not reinvent the wheel when there are conventional solutions.

-d-

That sounds sensible, Dave, and probably a relief to Tom! I think I'll carry on without archive charges though.