Your Favorite Limiter Plugin?

[stinkyfingers]

Originally Posted by Beatworld

...So the next question probably relates to ITU/EBU/ATSC "true peak" metering.....why aren't the results the same in different plugins ?

not to get too OT, but have you tried zplane PPMulator (ITU-R BS.1770 true-peak meter)
it often gives different results than the toneboosters meter...

edit: to make this on-topic i will say that Elephant has my vote...
edit: found out there is a bug using the toneboosters meter in Logic so that explains some of the odd results i was getting with it...

[Beatworld]

Originally Posted by stinkyfingers

have you tried zplane PPMulator (ITU-R BS.1770 true-peak meter)

edit: to make this on-topic i will say that Elephant has my vote...

Not yet

there is a lot to like about Elephant for sure

[Twerk]

Originally Posted by Beatworld

Not yet

there is a lot to like about Elephant for sure

Elephant gets used here the majority of the time but I'm also a big fan of FabFilter's Pro-L. I wouldn't want to be without either at this point.

[Beatworld]

Originally Posted by Twerk

Elephant gets used here the majority of the time but I'm also a big fan of FabFilter's Pro-L. I wouldn't want to be without either at this point.

I had a quick look at your web page.
You have some nice gear.

I see you use PSP and Sonnox plugs as well.
I take it you don't use Xenon or Sonnox Limiter as much as Elephant or Pro-L ?

[Liam Judah]

Originally voted Ozone, but have since moved on to Pro-L.

[Twerk]

Originally Posted by Beatworld

I had a quick look at your web page.
You have some nice gear.

I see you use PSP and Sonnox plugs as well.
I take it you don't use Xenon or Sonnox Limiter as much as Elephant or Pro-L ?

Thanks. I don't own Xenon or the Sonnox limiter but I keep hearing mostly good things about both. I'll probably try them out at some point when I get some more free time.

[Beatworld]

Originally Posted by Twerk

I don't own Xenon or the Sonnox limiter ... I'll probably try them out at some point when I get some more free time.

If you are happy with what you have maybe it isn't worth it

I own Pro-L and Sonnox (and Barricade).
I've been doing my brain in comparing them with demos of Xenon and Elephant for the last week or more.

They are all good if you spend enough time tweaking each.

Too many choices.

[dickiefunk]

I'm interested to hear how the Vladg Limiter 6 will compare to Voxengo's Elephant and Fabfilter's Pro-L when it's released!?

[ahmz]

Massey L2007

[ritelec]

Originally Posted by Beatworld

Too many choices.

Agreed....slacking off the past severals months here (musically) but if I can drum up some work and get a few $$$ for some new plugs........I'm going PSP.

Have sonnox,waves,brainwoks,flux.......and a few others. PSP hope to make the purchase one day.

(?? pro L did not float my boat??)

[zvukofor]

I used to use Sonnox at my work all the time, and it was the the best i've ever heard - clean and transparent, even at high levels. But now, i've tried Limiter No.6... i'd say it is at least as good as Sonnox.

[stinkyfingers]

hi,
i was wondering if someone(s) could run this test file through your favorite limiter...(i attached notes for settings to use)
i did Elephant, Barricade, and L2 already, but any other limiter would be greatly appreciated...
you can PM me the processed file or post it here...
thanks,
Stinky

edit: forgot to mention in the notes to make sure dither and any "extra" features are off (if applicable)
edit again: i have Pro-L and Sonnox now...thanks...others still welcome....

[mmarra]

Originally Posted by stinkyfingers

hi,
i was wondering if someone(s) could run this test file through Pro-L or Sonnox or whatever your favorite limiter is...(notes attached for settings)
i did Elephant, Barricade, and L2 already, but any other limiter would be greatly appreciated...
you can PM me the processed file or post it here...
thanks,
Stinky

Hello Stinky, I can run this test as I have both the Pro-L & Sonnox. Will you also be posting the final results here for all to hear?

[stinkyfingers]

well...the file is not much to listen to, it's just test tones...
but i will post a link here to the results for those interested...

[bmanic]

Can't you use the demos? Pro-L at least has a fully functional demo. If you've ran out of demo time simly email the guys at fabfilter and they'll sort you out.

Cheers!
bManic

[Filthrill]

I'm bummed to not see Flux Pure Limiter II on here. Well not really. I actually used it for the 1st time on a master yesterday & it beat out the Sonnox which I almost always use for everything.

Hope this isn't too irrelevant but I just wanted to mention this cuz maybe it'll help somebody:

I think it works on stuff that doesn't have a lot of percussion in it. Like more mellow & smoother material w/ lots of space & reverb in the mix. The song I was working on had a great female vocal, not shouting or anything & music was kind of Electronic. Also had tons of verb on vocal & in the mix & smooth keyboard bassline w/ twinkly & sparkly keys.

Good day

[Red Mastering]

I wait impatiently for a day when brick wall limiters will be obscure and irrelevant....

[nms]

That day will come as soon as people stop liking loud music and producers no longer want to confine groups of sounds to a particular dynamic range. Let me know how that goes

[bmanic]

I know this is the mastering forum but it's well worth mentioning that brick wall limiters are absolutely brilliant mixing tools as well.

Got to reduce the dynamic range of a snare with minimal "damage" to it's original sound? Grab a good limiter. It'll be way more transparent than almost anything else (clipping would probably be the most transparent up until you go nuts with it).

They are also absolutely brilliant in taming vocals and bass.. especially useful in situations where there is no time for in-depth editing and volume automation.

Cheers!
bManic

[Filthrill]

Originally Posted by bmanic

I know this is the mastering forum but it's well worth mentioning that brick wall limiters are absolutely brilliant mixing tools as well.

Got to reduce the dynamic range of a snare with minimal "damage" to it's original sound? Grab a good limiter. It'll be way more transparent than almost anything else (clipping would probably be the most transparent up until you go nuts with it).

They are also absolutely brilliant in taming vocals and bass.. especially useful in situations where there is no time for in-depth editing and volume automation.

Cheers!
bManic

U r correct sir! I like the way u think. Love it on everything (not necessarily on everything all at once, or maybe everything) except bass. U don't get stuck w/ a certain color that some compressors would give u. I've been using 2 or 3 limiters in serial w/ slightly different settings on some tracks in mixing for the last few years. Really "levels" a sound if u want that. Love Waves L2 & Massey L2007 especially.

[smoke]

Sorry, but what exactly IS the sound of a limiter? Is it the distortion that you do not hear? The more transparent, the better it sounds, right?

So is a valid question what are the worst sounding limiters? What limiters impart enough of a sound at all to make it a bad limiter?

How much peak attenuation does it take before I can begin to judge which limiter's GR sounds better?

[sokoleski]

Originally Posted by smoke

Sorry, but what exactly IS the sound of a limiter? Is it the distortion that you do not hear? The more transparent, the better it sounds, right?

So is a valid question what are the worst sounding limiters? What limiters impart enough of a sound at all to make it a bad limiter?

How much peak attenuation does it take before I can begin to judge which limiter's GR sounds better?

Good point!

[Filthrill]

Originally Posted by smoke

Sorry, but what exactly IS the sound of a limiter? Is it the distortion that you do not hear? The more transparent, the better it sounds, right?

So is a valid question what are the worst sounding limiters? What limiters impart enough of a sound at all to make it a bad limiter?

How much peak attenuation does it take before I can begin to judge which limiter's GR sounds better?

I personally am not aware of any BAD sounding limiters really. Everything is useful somewhere, maybe not everywhere tho of course. All of the limiters give their own character of "crush." This can help things stand taller or more noticeable in a mix or level & tame something that needs to be less dynamic. Or just as an effect possibly. Some have adjustable attack times, some don't. Some u can adjust the release in small increments & some have fixed release values, etc. The Sonnox is quite a different beast as opposed to Waves L2 or the Massey L2007 & others. So yeah, to me they're all useful. Didn't answer ur question did I? But the limiter should be auditioned on a sound just like u would a compress or EQ cuz some will sound better (for that particular track). But on another track might sound better w/ a different limiter.

[stinkyfingers]

i found having the different modes/algos available in Elephant to be a very nice feature because each one imparts it's own "sound" via the distortions created...
transparency is nice for some things but sometimes you want to add a "sound" for "enhancement" purposes...
when i can "match" the distortion of the limiter with sounds in the tracks, it's a beautiful thing...a sort of harmonic enhancer if you will...makes shit come alive sometimes...

[bmanic]

Originally Posted by smoke

Sorry, but what exactly IS the sound of a limiter? Is it the distortion that you do not hear? The more transparent, the better it sounds, right?

So is a valid question what are the worst sounding limiters? What limiters impart enough of a sound at all to make it a bad limiter?

How much peak attenuation does it take before I can begin to judge which limiter's GR sounds better?

During the development of Pro-L I made so many ABX tests that I could hear the "sound" (meaning the gain reduction action) of various limiters even with very minimal limiting, around half a dB.

The change of a transient can be rather significant depending on the source, even if it happens in a split second.

By far the most transparent "limiting" in my opinion is purely clipping a short transient because it will be pretty much reconstructed at the DA converter. However, it does increase distortion but if it's short (a few milliseconds) and doesn't happen too often then the ear/brain will simply not pick it up.

So, the differences of various limiter's "sound" is how they treat distortion vs transient integrity. Slower limiters produce less distortion but are less true to the original source when it comes to the amplitude of the transient. Then again, the distortion changes the spectral content of a transient so it'll change the apparent timbre. Depending on how the distortions pile up (including non-harmonic distortion like intermodulation and aliasing) you will get a slightly different timbre out of different limiters. This makes some feel brighter or duller than others.

When dealing with very short transients the timbre is rarely a problem. We react more to the impact of the transients than the timbre. However, over long sustained sounds which are constantly being limited, either directly or indirectly (meaning a low sustained tone gets amplitude modulated due to other instruments/sounds transients) we will start picking up the timbre changes.

Hope my writing isn't too confusing.. it's late and I have some problems finding the correct words for my ramblings.

Cheers!
bManic

[EIDERDOWN]

I'll divide this into two categories:

Clean Limiter: FabFilter Pro-L

Limiter with Character: VladG's Limiter6 <-- This is the limiter I use most; and as it is free at Vlad's website, (VladGPlugins ), the limiter (and vlad for that matter) certainly deserve high praise.

I would also have to give Elysia's Alpha a honorable mention, which definitely has character, but it's softer and more silky compared to the Limiter6. It can get reasonably clean as well.

EDIT: After a few days of comparing masters with different limiters, I would have to put Sonnox's Oxford Limiter as a close second to the Limiter6 in the "Limiter with Character" category. However, these are two very different limiters, not sharing many of the same setting options; so each have their different uses. The Oxford gives you attack and release settings as one obvious example, etc. But the cost of the Oxford Limiter will undoubtedly turn some people away.

[Red Mastering]

I don't think Elysia Alpha is a limiter,
it's a quite a compressor though

there was a separate thread about Vlad's limiter, so it's maybe worth to check,
when time allows

[EIDERDOWN]

Originally Posted by Red Mastering

I don't think Elysia Alpha is a limiter,
it's a quite a compressor though

there was a separate thread about Vlad's limiter, so it's maybe worth to check,
when time allows

True, Elysia's Alpha is a compressor, but I have used it in the past as a mastering limiter, and enjoyed it enough that I thought I would mention it as an option.

I believe I've seen the thread you speak of; which from what I remember, is basically a love fest for Vlad, lol.

[Alécio Costa]

I use 75% of the time PSP Xenon and TC Brickwall II.

In other situations, L3 Ultra LL ( non multiband version).

[Hypnotic]

I find that Izotope tends to make things sound the same. For example, I like to use a hardware compressor before going to the limiter, but I find that Ozone takes away a lot of the 3 dimensionality that the compressor added. Any hints at how to avoid this? Is there a limiter that does not do this? Thanks!