More on intersample peaks...

SWAN808 · 22nd October 2010

Looking for some clarification having already searched, regarding intersample peaks.

It appears that the ceiling to allow for intersample peaks has to get lower if the final output is to be lower quality - for example low bit rate mp3 - correct? However most IS meters only account for one eventuality - which I assume is reconstruction at current sample rate or standard 44.1 CD quality...?

Given that most music ends up in mp3 format - is there not a potential call to create meters that can account for reconstruction based on different codec qualities?

Finally - how much of a problem are IS anyways? If you remain within a reasonable limit of say -0.3db...am I worrying about nothing?

I recently read a lot of posts by Spicemix regarding the fact that IS are actually secretly factored in by the 'Pros' as part of a punchy well mastered 'bright' sound - and the anxiety over IS was some sort of Gearslutz audio world conspiracy....

So would be great to get some views from the experienced...thumbsup

12ax7 · 22nd October 2010

Have you seen this?:

Intersample Peaks
.

Waltz Mastering · 22nd October 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by SWAN808

I recently read a lot of posts by Spicemix regarding the fact that IS are actually secretly factored in by the 'Pros' as part of a punchy well mastered 'bright' sound - and the anxiety over IS was some sort of Gearslutz audio world conspiracy....

I was curious why he got banned and his post were deleted. It's starting to make sense.; )

12ax7 · 22nd October 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waltz Mastering

I was curious why he got banned at his post were deleted. It's starting to make sense.; )

If you think THAT's unsettling, consider this burning issue!:

Why are there no green mammals?

!!!

.

SWAN808 · 22nd October 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by 12ax7

Have you seen this?:

Intersample Peaks
.

yeah thats a good article - but I kind of (admittedly quickly) looked over it...

Its just he only offered a light opinion:

Quote:

I personally think it's good engineering practice to avoid aliasing and intersample peaks, especially considering translation to lesser DACs and further processing like MP3 coding. But each to their own..

And Im wondering if there is a larger consensus amongst ME on this matter-these days surely most people will be mastering for some sort of MP3 format ultimately? And lets say 192-320

...partially this is driven by my testing of the new Fabfilter Limiter which has a intersample peak detector and I was surprised how far back I had to pull the level to avoid these peaks...and Im guessing that was just for CD quality - again the question is how much 'more' might be needed for MP3 codecs...

Nordenstam · 23rd October 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by SWAN808

Its just he only offered a light opinion:

Stronger.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SWAN808

...partially this is driven by my testing of the new Fabfilter Limiter which has a intersample peak detector and I was surprised how far back I had to pull the level to avoid these peaks...and Im guessing that was just for CD quality - again the question is how much 'more' might be needed for MP3 codecs...

The amount of IS peaking depends on what happens to the signal. Sharp changes, like clipping, typically brings more IS peaking to the table. Softer treatment, like oversampled limiting with not-so-fast time constants, makes for less IS peaking. This translates to less peak problems down the line when converting to mp3's.

_barnee · 24th October 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waltz Mastering

I was curious why he got banned and his post were deleted. It's starting to make sense.; )

Wow... Indeed, I can't find any of his posts... What happened?

SWAN808 · 24th October 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lupo

Stronger.

The amount of IS peaking depends on what happens to the signal. Sharp changes, like clipping, typically brings more IS peaking to the table. Softer treatment, like oversampled limiting with not-so-fast time constants, makes for less IS peaking. This translates to less peak problems down the line when converting to mp3's.

thanks your post was helpful. Basically it seems like I just need to leave extra headroom to account for mp3 conversion that will almost inevitably happen...-0.5 seems low but probably safest...should still be able to get a fairly loud master...

spicemix · 24th October 2010

If you read enough of my posts you would have come across your liberation:

"Take the dozen albums you think sound the best, run them through an oversampling meter (eg TL Master Meter) and see what they do about intersample peak overs. Do the same for your own work."

The moderators have succeeded in making the truth radioactive here. Well done.

22nd October 2010	#1
SWAN808 Lives for gear Joined: Jan 2008 Posts: 5,067 Thread Starter 1 Review written	More on intersample peaks... Looking for some clarification having already searched, regarding intersample peaks. It appears that the ceiling to allow for intersample peaks has to get lower if the final output is to be lower quality - for example low bit rate mp3 - correct? However most IS meters only account for one eventuality - which I assume is reconstruction at current sample rate or standard 44.1 CD quality...? Given that most music ends up in mp3 format - is there not a potential call to create meters that can account for reconstruction based on different codec qualities? Finally - how much of a problem are IS anyways? If you remain within a reasonable limit of say -0.3db...am I worrying about nothing? I recently read a lot of posts by Spicemix regarding the fact that IS are actually secretly factored in by the 'Pros' as part of a punchy well mastered 'bright' sound - and the anxiety over IS was some sort of Gearslutz audio world conspiracy.... So would be great to get some views from the experienced...thumbsup

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22nd October 2010	#2
12ax7 Lives for gear Joined: Jul 2009 Posts: 4,139	Have you seen this?: Intersample Peaks .

24th October 2010	#9
spicemix Lives for gear Joined: Sep 2009 Posts: 2,305	If you read enough of my posts you would have come across your liberation: "Take the dozen albums you think sound the best, run them through an oversampling meter (eg TL Master Meter) and see what they do about intersample peak overs. Do the same for your own work." The moderators have succeeded in making the truth radioactive here. Well done.