EQing out sibilance During Mastering

[dougf]

I have a mix of hip hop track in which the vocals have a substantial "ess" noise even in parts of words that slightly use the letter "s." I've tried de-essing and re-equing and I feel like the eq is pretty much perfect as it is, the environment in which it was recorded is most likely emphasizing the noise

I was wondering if a mastering engineer would be able to EQ minimize this without damaging the overall quality of the track?

[Strut78]

Usually sibilance would be best fixed during the mixing stage but can be addressed to some degree at mastering but this is generally a compromise to some degree.

If you think that you have gone as far as you can with the mix then maybe send the mastering engineer the complete mix and maybe a version of the vocals and music as stems.

[jayfrigo]

If left to the mastering stage, M/S de-essing (Mid-Side) may be worth a try.

[huejahfink]

Originally Posted by Strut78

If you think that you have gone as far as you can with the mix then maybe send the mastering engineer the complete mix and maybe a version of the vocals and music as stems.

This sounds like a good idea if you are not sure how to tackle the problem effectively.

I often end up attacking sibilants in stereo mastering using TC Dynamic EQ (often placed in an m/s matrix).
How effective this is depends very much on what other parts in the mix reside in that frequency area.
If for example, sibilants and cymbals are around the same area and with similar level transients, a dynamic EQ might not work very well as you will most likely end up cutting out some cymbal too.
I usually end up doing some very time consuming spectral editing on the sibilants only where standard practices fail.

If you don't have a good dynamic EQ or de-esser then obtain one and learn to use it well. As others have said, it is much better for this to be tackled by the mix engineer. A separate vocal stem can work OK, but you want to watch out that you don't end up with a larger mastering bill because the ME is taking on aspects of your job.

[jayfrigo]

Originally Posted by huejahfink

If for example, sibilants and cymbals are around the same area and with similar level transients, a dynamic EQ might not work very well as you will most likely end up cutting out some cymbal too.

That's why M/S is worth a try in this application - grabs the vocal ssss in the middle and leaves the cymbals alone in the sides.

[tomasrangel]

Try Brainworx Dynamic Eq. It have dynamic eq, compression, dessing and M/S processing in all them.
But may be a stem mastering or remixing is a better solution.

[dougf]

thank you for all the replies so far...it's much appreciated!

[huejahfink]

Originally Posted by jayfrigo

That's why M/S is worth a try in this application - grabs the vocal ssss in the middle and leaves the cymbals alone in the sides.

Yes, as I said I do run it in m/s quite often. But what you say here assumes that the cymbals ARE in the sides and that's not always the case - especially hip hop where relatively simple sample selections are often used.
Classic rock drum mix + vocals may be a different matter.

Of course, I mean no disrespect. Perhaps it's just me who gets tracks with loads of elements panned dead centre.

[Waltz Mastering]

Originally Posted by dougf

I have a mix of hip hop track in which the vocals have a substantial "ess" noise even in parts of words that slightly use the letter "s." I've tried de-essing and re-equing and I feel like the eq is pretty much perfect as it is, the environment in which it was recorded is most likely emphasizing the noise

Once you have the frequency dialed in, you could automate the threshold on the de-esser during the mix to just grab the s's and worst spots so that it's not effecting the whole vocal in the 4-6k range.

[djwaudio]

I sold my de-esser, using EQ and careful compression settings. It's often a tricky balance to keep the esses from getting worse in mastering.

I often back down the input gain to the analog chain and watch out for anything coming even close to saturation or clipping.

Interestingly I have found it helpful to boost the offending frequency area at times. Then again, of course I often do the opposite...

There's nothing like spending time experimenting for yourself. Beware of the MS snake oil... it can destroy localization cues in the stereo field if you're not careful. No offense to those who use it successfully.

If I really need to take on the dreaded esses, just editing the individual occurrences is most transparent.

[Arichlsss]

good tips

[KyleDiSanto]

What's your signal path order?