solution for muddy mix !!!

[wado1942]

Ah, your mud is most likely because you have 32 small instruments instead of one big one. That's a lot of stuff to clutter up the mix. Can you track everybody from a distance with just a pair of mics? That'll give you the sound of a choir rather than a bajillion backup singers. Not to mention it's 2 tracks instead of 32. Plus, it'll sound like a group that's far away naturally, rather than having to use a ton of plugins to simulate distance.

[sadboy]

Originally Posted by wado1942

Ah, your mud is most likely because you have 32 small instruments instead of one big one. That's a lot of stuff to clutter up the mix. Can you track everybody from a distance with just a pair of mics? That'll give you the sound of a choir rather than a bajillion backup singers. Not to mention it's 2 tracks instead of 32. Plus, it'll sound like a group that's far away naturally, rather than having to use a ton of plugins to simulate distance.

well usually i don't put too much plug-ins on the choral buss, just an SSL G-comp, and reverb to push them in the back, and i perfectly get the sound of group but the freaking muddy issue is driving me crazy, because almost all my projects contain choral stuff....

[HomeProducer]

"muddy ... mudddy ... mmm...mmmuddy ... "

The reason can be the speakers/room combination as well. Had this
issue with my adam a7s. They sounded thin in the low mid area which
I always tried to compensate too much, ending up with slight muddiness.

here my theory: to avoid boxy/muddy sound due to room problems, some
manufacturers make the lower mids weaker. Then the speakers will sound
acceptable in most untreated rooms.

But this creates problems for mixing.

[sadboy]

Originally Posted by HomeProducer

"muddy ... mudddy ... mmm...mmmuddy ... "

The reason can be the speakers/room combination as well. Had this
issue with my adam a7s. They sounded thin in the low mid area which
I always tried to compensate too much, ending up with slight muddiness.

here my theory: to avoid boxy/muddy sound due to room problems, some
manufacturers make the lower mids weaker. Then the speakers will sound
acceptable in most untreated rooms.

But this creates problems for mixing.

I've got the krk6 and the muddiness can be noticed though the speakers, before anywhere else...

[Sophroneo]

Originally Posted by Iron Man

To the OP, sadboy:

When mixing, watch for a buildup of frequencies from 250 Hz to 600 Hz. Put an eq on your master buss, set the gain at +12 with a tight Q, and then just move this gain between the frequency range I've listed. When you find a frequency that just jumps out at you, that's the one you want to tame. Just eq'ing a narrow notch around there can pull out some mud.

Also, put a high pass filter after all of your reverbs and delays. Every one of mine has a 250 Hz HP filter.

You can send your choir to the back of the soundscape with reverb with no, or very little, predelay. You could also duck the choir under the lead vocal. Don't try to go too big or long on a hall reverb.

High pass filters can be very beneficial to some tracks. If there's any noise or something, say at 100 Hz, then you will have harmonics that will build to 200 Hz, and then to 400 Hz and into our mud zone.

Hope this helps.

I'm only giving you a general rule of thumb because I have not heard the song. But one of the causes of muddiness buildup is the instrumental track not utilizing the frequency spectrum. In other words, the instruments in the track are all playing between C3 and C4. I believe middle C is C3.

Nonetheless, the point is that the song does have a lot of highs, balanced mids to make room for vocals, and a few lows. The frequency range of the instrumental is between 250-700hz. If that's the case, reproduce the song OR go into each track and dip 500hz with a wide Q and shelf a couple db's up from 10khz respectively.

[sadboy]

Originally Posted by Sophroneo

I'm only giving you a general rule of thumb because I have not heard the song. But one of the causes of muddiness buildup is the instrumental track not utilizing the frequency spectrum. In other words, the instruments in the track are all playing between C3 and C4. I believe middle C is C3.

Nonetheless, the point is that the song does have a lot of highs, balanced mids to make room for vocals, and a few lows. The frequency range of the instrumental is between 250-700hz. If that's the case, reproduce the song OR go into each track and dip 500hz with a wide Q and shelf a couple db's up from 10khz respectively.

i will check my instruments you might be right..

[Red Mastering]

Originally Posted by sadboy

thank you all guys, and will try to upload an audio ASAP, and for my vocal mixing thing, the strange is that when i record a solo vox i get a great sound but when i try to mix a choral or choir which about 32 mono tracks equally panned left and right i get the muddy problem... any ideas why ?

could be phase issue...
but dunno..
where's audio file ?? so we can stop guessing

[Xander]

I don't see how 32 mics on one choir is necessary. Having that many mics on the same source is just asking for serious phase issues, causing a loss of definition in the critical midrange and a muddying of lower midrange.

Where were these mics located, and why were so many used?

I believe the answer lies in the tracking methods more than mixing. Let alone mastering.

[sadboy]

Originally Posted by Xander

I don't see how 32 mics on one choir is necessary. Having that many mics on the same source is just asking for serious phase issues, causing a loss of definition in the critical midrange and a muddying of lower midrange.

Where were these mics located, and why were so many used?

I believe the answer lies in the tracking methods more than mixing. Let alone mastering.

dude i don't use 32 mics... i have one U87 and i record 32 TIMES the same verse which i wanna choralize it, then these 32 tracks will be separated 16 tracks panned left and 16 tracks panned right......

[wado1942]

OK, one voice doing all parts can DEFINITELY add to mud. Is there any way you get get a bunch of people together to sing the parts. Get the mic 2 meters away at least for four people. Also, hard panning can contribute to this a lot.

You still haven't posted a sample so we really can't give any definitive advice so we're just going off of our own experience with what you describe. You said you recorded coral stuff on 32 tracks so it everybody assumed you had a choir with 32 mics on it. Still, one person with one mic 32 times is just as bad for different reasons.

[Melgueil]

Mic placement, (or lack thereof) - mud generator #1
Room treatment (lack thereof) - mud generator #2
Distribution of instruments sounds across the frequency spectrum (or lack therof). In the good old days there were arrangers who made sure that string, horn parts were written to not clash / collide all over the place. Today's "arranger" has three or four guitar tracks (most rumbling along within the same octive or two) - mud generator #3

Now add some effects like reverb to a track or tracks that where one or more of the above are not right - you are veering towards sludge which you can never fix with eq compression or whatever. tutt
cdlt

[twarrenl]

Originally Posted by sadboy

dude i don't use 32 mics... i have one U87 and i record 32 TIMES the same verse which i wanna choralize it, then these 32 tracks will be separated 16 tracks panned left and 16 tracks panned right......

so - freaking - unnecessary.

Four vocal takes (right, mid-right, mid-left, left) bussed to a chorus/shortdelay will give you a much cleaner sound. And if you really want help - give us a sound clip already!!!

[huejahfink]

Originally Posted by Melgueil

Mic placement, (or lack thereof) - mud generator #1
Room treatment (lack thereof) - mud generator #2
Distribution of instruments sounds across the frequency spectrum (or lack therof). In the good old days there were arrangers who made sure that string, horn parts were written to not clash / collide all over the place. Today's "arranger" has three or four guitar tracks (most rumbling along within the same octive or two) - mud generator #3

Mixing harmonies and bvs etc as if they were all leads,,, mud generator4