Voxengo Soniformer version 3 is out

[bmanic]

Looks like Aleksey released a new version of Soniformer. I've been using the old one as a "band aid" in really tricky situations. It's been absolutely indispensable. It's one of those dangerous "total magic" plugins that can transform a horrible mix into something decent. I've had to pick up a few jaws from the floor when using this plugin to rescue mixes.

Highly recommended!!

Cheers!
bManic

[Surbitone]

Nice! Soniformer 2 has saved my arse a fair few times. Looking forward to checking this out. thumbsup

[MASSIVE Master]

I didn't get a notification... Yet...

But no doubt - That's one of those magic hats. I maybe use it once or twice a month (and that's only if it's "one of those months") but when you need it, there is absolutely no substitute for what that thing can pull off.

[echoRausch]

Originally Posted by MASSIVE Master

But no doubt - That's one of those magic hats. I maybe use it once or twice a month (and that's only if it's "one of those months") but when you need it, there is absolutely no substitute for what that thing can pull off.

thumbsup

[huejahfink]

Agreed. It's nice to not HAVE to use it, but when it comes out - it does what it does with ease and accuracy.

It's a pay update though and I can find no indication online about what has changed in v3 (except for the GUI)

Edit :- ah, I found it now....

"

[top]What's New - Voxengo Soniformer

Version 3.0, Oct 3, 2010:

• Initial version 3 release.
• Stereo balance and correlation metering
• Range envelope
• Linear-phase oversampling
• Multi-channel support
• Multi-platform support
• Routing matrix
• Preset manager
• User interface coloration
• User interface re-scaling
• Channel grouping
• Plug-in instance naming"

Looks like a range control and upsampling is basically it.... worth $50 updating? I know it's not much more but I have other competing demands for my cash such as the limited upgrade offer on Izotope RX. Will have to try it I guess.
Of course, this is the first version available for Mac so I guess that's a win for the Apple types.

[adl]

Anybody care to describe in what situation Soniformer safed the mix?
I mean was the mix very unbalanced but you couldn´t get back to do a better mixdown?
Just curious. :-)

[huejahfink]

Originally Posted by adl

the mix very unbalanced but you couldn´t get back to do a better mixdown?

Pretty much that, yes! I find it best at offering either a little control on problematic frequencies, especially when there are resonances that move around as I would fix static ones better with a regular dynamic EQ.

One example of this might be, calming overly exaggerated filter sweeps which are embedded in a stereo file.

Also, lifeless areas lacking punch can be very gently enhanced with the expander, and this can be useful when the signal is complex and pushing just one frequency area sounds a bit congested.

Further more, the expander can be great for filtering out a bit of complex noise from a signal where traditional gates or expanders fear to tread.... This is more of a post or mix tool in that sense though.

[adl]

Originally Posted by huejahfink

Pretty much that, yes! I find it best at offering either a little control on problematic frequencies, especially when there are resonances that move around as I would fix static ones better with a regular dynamic EQ.

One example of this might be, calming overly exaggerated filter sweeps which are embedded in a stereo file.

Also, lifeless areas lacking punch can be very gently enhanced with the expander, and this can be useful when the signal is complex and pushing just one frequency area sounds a bit congested.

Further more, the expander can be great for filtering out a bit of complex noise from a signal where traditional gates or expanders fear to tread.... This is more of a post or mix tool in that sense though.

Ah, ok. Thanx!

[huejahfink]

no problem

[mljung]

Originally Posted by bmanic

Looks like Aleksey released a new version of Soniformer. I've been using the old one as a "band aid" in really tricky situations. It's been absolutely indispensable. It's one of those dangerous "total magic" plugins that can transform a horrible mix into something decent. I've had to pick up a few jaws from the floor when using this plugin to rescue mixes.

Highly recommended!!

Cheers!
bManic

I agree that the general idea behind Soniformer is great and version 2 has also been doing wonders for me in many situations.

The question is if this update gives us more in the end. It's changed, and maybe not just for the better, only time and experimentation will show that.
I have to admit that I had dreamed for more enhancements in version 3 [making it more competitive to Paul Frindles DSM].
One thing that I like [and missed in v2] is the routing making it possible to process M-S independently, but that's the same for all Voxengos latest updates, so no surprises there. But the Wet/Mix is gone for some reason, and that's a pity, I hope it'll return!

::
Mads

[Mark D.]

This is another example of how you could probably use Voxengo and nothing
else for plug-ins. They've thought of pretty much everything and then some.

[bmanic]

Originally Posted by mljung

I agree that the general idea behind Soniformer is great and version 2 has also been doing wonders for me in many situations.

The question is if this update gives us more in the end. It's changed, and maybe not just for the better, only time and experimentation will show that.
I have to admit that I had dreamed for more enhancements in version 3 [making it more competitive to Paul Frindles DSM].
One thing that I like [and missed in v2] is the routing making it possible to process M-S independently, but that's the same for all Voxengos updates, so no surprises there. But the Wet/Mix is gone for some reason, and that's a pity, I hope it'll return!

::
Mads

Huh? Routing is more flexible now than ever! You can have separate mid and side or left-right. Heck, now it even works for surround sound which can be a godsend for post production!

The new "range" envelope is awesome and the oversampling very useful for when using extremely fast attack and release times. Overall I think the update is brilliant. It's also finally multi-platform and supports many formats (64bit!!).

Cheers!
bManic

[huejahfink]

So bmanic, what's so great about the range control? (not that I doubt you)
Is it simply that you can put a 'cap' on the amount of change?

[mljung]

Originally Posted by huejahfink

So bmanic, what's so great about the range control? (not that I doubt you)
Is it simply that you can put a 'cap' on the amount of change?

I could use a more thorough description of the range control in the manual..!

::
Mads

[mljung]

Originally Posted by bmanic

Huh? Routing is more flexible now than ever! You can have separate mid and side or left-right.
Cheers!
bManic

That was what I meant, routing is much better now!

::
Mads

[DSPaudio]

Longtime DSM user here, happy to see Soniformer on OS X.

Been trying out the Soniformer demo and find it interesting. I've read the manual and played with it for a few hours auditioning various source material (from properly mixed songs to disasters in need of surgery).

IMO Soniformer is quite different from DSM and not a replacement, however the same could be said in the other direction as Soniformer allows some radical compression/expansion schemes that DSM can't easily do.

Without getting heavily involved in sonic comparisons I find the DSM is more fit for the master bus and the Soniformer for surgery and sculpting. ffb vs fft (phase vs grind).

Several people have emphasized Soniformers ability to improve difficult/hopeless material, anyone care to describe their experience / uses?

I'm really happy Voxengo brought this over to OSX! I'll keep playing with it to see if it can do the circus tricks I think it can.

[bmanic]

Range control = caps the amount of gain reduction.. at least this is how I always thought it was..

Anyhow, I used Soniformer today on a quick mastering of a piece by Sibelius, a recording of an amateur violin section (15 teenagers). The recording was fine and the acoustics of the room adequate but the instruments of the teens and their playing was mediocre. Cheap violins sound nasty, unfortunately so I had to use Soniformer to keep the 2-7kHz area under control. The piece was really slow so I used a very long attack around 250ms and a ridiculously long release (maximum).. ratio overall of 1.04:1 except for the area around 2 to 7kHz where I cranked up the ratio to 1.2:1. This made the recording much smoother and more bearable to listen to.

Cheers!
bManic

[huejahfink]

So it WAS what I thought it was. fine. Perhaps it was your use of the word 'awesome' that made me consider alternatives.

[kjg]

Originally Posted by DSPaudio

Without getting heavily involved in sonic comparisons I find the DSM is more fit for the master bus and the Soniformer for surgery and sculpting. ffb vs fft (phase vs grind).

Have never used Soniformer, but assumed it was fft based. Is it not?

I checked the features page and found that it can do "Multi-band panning" ...

But seriously, looks like a great tool.

[huejahfink]

The best, very short description I can muster right now-

"A 32 band graphic with dynamic capabilities."


This plugin really is in a league of it's own in terms of original idea and intuitive interface - definitely worth a demo.

[mljung]

Played around with v3 some more and believe my first concerns was more a question of adapting to the changes.

I like the new range adjustment and I'm pretty sure I can live without mix control.
Certainly there is still room for development, but Aleksey is usually very good at that.

Right now I'm almost certain I will go for the update!

::
Mads

[PitchSlap]

Soniformer 2 was such a work-horse.

When doing a little pseudo-mastering on mixes I found the 'Radio Mix' preset of Soniformer 2 a great starting point. It would provide some gentle multiband compression in places where the mix strays from the 1/f "Voss and Clark Zone", tighten the lows by making them mono and open open up the highs by progressively widening then.

I'm glad to see this tool finally updated.

[DSPaudio]

From the Soniformer manual:

"During processing, Soniformer divides incoming audio signal into 32 equally-spaced
bands (this makes Soniformer a rather CPU-consumptive plug-in), extracted by
means of array of band-pass filters. The lowest band has center frequency of 20 Hz;
the highest band has center frequency of 20k Hz. This layout brings about 25 dB of
attenuation at DC, which is also good for general DC offset removal. Output
spectrum’s average ripple is within 0.25 dB, with a slight raise around 20 Hz and 20k
Hz regions. Frequencies above 22 kHz drop down by 9 dB per octave."

I went looking for this data as soon as I auditioned the plugin as it sounded soft to me. Again, I don't mind this softness and think it has a nice character just different than DSM as I stated earlier.

I probably could hear it easily because 2 years ago we designed a plug around a large fixed filter bank and had a similar softening of the output.

Very nice tool. But I wish two things.
1.)
Better workflow on the envelope editing. Copy, Paste, Invert, Scale (- to +) and such would allow quicker manipulation of such a large number of bands across 5 screens. Double click is slow. Shift or ctrl + single click would be a nicer workflow when you consider that the whole point is to get in there and sculpt the dynamics to go crazy and enjoy it. Well, right now I find the envelope editor tedious (x5).

2.)
For such an advanced plugin, 20 or 30 presets would be more appropriate, showing off a wider variety of configurations... Constructing patches from scratch is time consuming because the envelope UI object is slightly obtuse as documented above.

[huejahfink]

I hadn't been upset by the interface at all really, particularly after I'd spent some practical time with it.
But being able to copy envelopes between the pages is a particularly good idea. thumbsup

[mljung]

In Soniformer 2 the individual processing sections could be turned on/off, it doesn't seem to be possible in version 3.!?

If this is correct please consider a return of this ability - if it's still there please let me know how to use it.

==

About the limited frequency response:
"Frequencies above 22 kHz drop down by 9 dB per octave"

What is the reasoning behind this limitation, a technical one?

I'm asking as one of the ideas behind using 96kHz sampling frequency [or above for that matter] is a possible positive effect as a result of the extended frequency response.

I'm not debating whether this is a objective quality lift [or just placebo], but simply want to know why users of high sampling frequencies can't have have the full "benefit" of the extended frequency response using Soniformer?


::
Mads

[DSPaudio]

Soniformer has oversampling at multiples of the host sample rate.
The toggle is easy to pick out if you just look above the envelopes section.

Sample rate usefulness is a much larger discussion that's been done nearly to death. Since nearly every discussion of it misses a critical point and veers off into arguments about the audibility of high frequency components I'll drop my 2 cents.

The benefit I have experienced with high sample rates is a smoother more polished sound when the DSP process utilizes feedback. Looking at the actual equations involved and how they work over multiple samples will inform you of which process will benefit from higher sample rates.

Stepping back to see the whole picture, *most* speakers can't produce above 22k and *most* people can't hear beyond 20k either.

But down in the frequency range where most people can hear and most speakers perform reasonably well, higher sample rates can make a noticeable difference if the DSP process is recursive. I'm sure there is some small truth to high frequency intermodulation showing up in the audible band yet, that is such a minor payout compared to smoother performing filters.

And, Soniformer features oversampling for probably the reasons I've written about above.

Cheers,